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Satan and Intelligence Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2

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Does Satan Have Intelligence?
  Yes
  No
  Not Sure
  Yes, but not as much creativity as Babs
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The Kingdom Keeper
Captain

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:39 pm


Exactly!!! Man I wish I'd gotten to this one earlier!

Satan may be SMART but he's not INTELLIGENT. He has no light for he lost it when he fell, and he doesn't have the whole truth cuz then he'd a never had Eve eat the apple. He didn't know that was part of the plan, if not he would probably have been content to sit there on his butt and watch as we never progressed! Trapped because Adam hadn't fallen.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:04 pm


Well put KK.

Satan has much more knowledge than we do, and since he never went through the veil, remembers more than we do. He can use that knowledge against us. But we have light and truth on our side. We can use our intelligence to keep him at bay. While we chouldn't underestimate him, we should always remember that he can't beat Heavenly Father. So as long as we are doing what is right, we will have an advantage over him.

snaksie
Crew


snaksie
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:25 pm


There is a key difference between knowledge and intelligence.

Knowledge is basically amassing information about different topics and memories of certain experiences.

Intelligence is applying that knowledge towards Gospel principles.

Satan has much more knowledge than we do. However, he doesn't apply any of that towards Gospel principles. He instead tries to deny the truth and subvert the will of God.

The fact that we can apply our knowledge towards Gospel priciples and therefore gain in intelligence gives us an advantage over Satan. He can never gain any intelligence, so instead he tries to take away our intelligence by getting us to act contrary to the will of God. However, we won't let him! We will learn and grow and someday be like our Father in Heaven. biggrin
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:55 pm


D&C 93 talks about Satan and intelligence, truth, and much much more.

We're going to have a new discussion about Agency soon. If you want to prepare for it, read D&C 93:24-42.

I guarantee this is a dicussion you won't want to miss. However, to really make it a discussion...we need as many people to join in and share your thoughts.

Remember I told you that after discussing Satan and intelligence, you would be able to ask your parents, missionaries or even you Bishop and perhaps give them some info they might not have? Well, after we discuss agency, there is a good chance we ALL will understand it better than those other groups I mentioned earlier.

You should really read all of D&C 93, but for this discussion, you mostly need 24-42. And verses 30 and 31 are so important, I'm going to list them here.

~ 30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.
~ 31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.



Thanks for reading and let's all get to studying.

snaksie
Crew


Pegasaurus Rex

Stone-cold Loiterer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:52 pm


Wewt wewt. Snaksie and KK know their stuff. *applauds*
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:43 am


Thanks Link wink

So, judging on what has been stated above, is Agency directed in any way to intelligence?

snaksie
Crew


Pegasaurus Rex

Stone-cold Loiterer

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:15 pm


Maybe no. Lel I don't know. Unless you use your intelligence when you use your agency. But otherwise... I see no connection. But I'm just guessing at this.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:02 pm


(saying something dumb like lel certainly has nothing to do with intelligence)

Could Agency be directed in any way to Intelligence if you describe intelligence as light and truth? Do light and truth have anything to do with Agency?

How does one gain more intelligence?

How does on gain more agency?

Can Satan help us lose some of both?

Does Satan have either?

Is it possible for us to lose ALL of both?

snaksie
Crew


snaksie
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:06 am


There have been some really great ideas presented recently and it's cool to share different opinions. However, there are certain areas where there is opinion and then there is doctrine.

Satan has no intelligence because he has neither light nor truth. He has tons of knowledge. He is not in purgatory, but he is in outer darkness, a place reserved for those spirits that are not able to withstand any degree of glory.

When we are reseurrected, we all will have perfect bodies. However, our spirits will be different. Some will have bodies capable of withstanding celestial glory, some terrestial glory and some telestial glory. Some will have spirits unable to withstand any degree of glory. These are the spirits who will go and be with Lucifer.

Yes, Lucifer was a great spirit before he fell. He was the "Son of the morning" and he was part of our family. Father presented one plan. Lucifer said he would ensure everyone would go down and return, because we could not choose right from wrong, and all would be saved and the glory would be his. Jehovah stated that we all would go down and be able to choose between right and wrong. Some would make it and some wouldn't. But in the end, the glory would be the Father's. That is how Lucifer became Satan and he and those who followed him (approximately 1/3 of all our brethren and sisters) were cast out of heaven. We were extremely sad that these spirits rebelled because they were family, but we also had to stand up for what was right. Everyone on this earth kept their first estate and stood by our Father and our Savior. The others were cast out and lost their first estate. Where they are, no intelligence exists. No agency exists. No light exists. No truth exists. No happiness exists. Satan and all of his followers can never attain any degree of agency or intelligence. You need light for both intelligence and agency and he is in outer darkness. You have to see the light in order to choose the right. ( a nice little rhyme I thought of smile )

Satan has no agency. He can't decide he now wants to follow the Savior. There are no righteous choices available to him. This is part of where the "real"misery and suffering comes from. Just as he can't choose right, Heavenly Father cannot choose wrong. It is not possible. We don't have to worry..."I wonder if the Savior will lie to me today?" The Godhead all are free agents and have only righteous choices available to them.

So, that is why Satan has no intelligence. We do. He has no body. We do. He has no agency. We do. He hates us. We have everything he can never have. We can use knowledge towards gospel principles to gain more intelligence. He can only use knowledge to try and thwart the plan of God. He won't win, but he will deceive some more of God's children and drag them down to be with him. That is sad. That is why we must do all we can to spread the gospel and save all of our Father's children.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:54 pm


I always thought satan had intelligence but I never heard it defined that way. If you define it that way than I guess your righ and he has none. But he sure has alot of tricks.

PeroPedro


The Kingdom Keeper
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:18 pm


snaksie
How does one gain more intelligence?

How does on gain more agency?

Can Satan help us lose some of both?

Does Satan have either?

Is it possible for us to lose ALL of both?


Well, I've gained some more insight. All matter is composed of "intelligence" as is stated in the D&C (humor me, I can't remember what section but I know it's there). God organized our spirit bodies (souls if you will) out of the intelligence. In a way you can say intelligence is energy and science says energy and matter can't be created nor destroyed but they can interchange. So God took intelligence(energy) and made our spirit bodies(matter). Spirit matter is extremely fine and can't be seen by the human eye, in a way it's why we need to be transfigured to stand in Gods presence.

Anyways, our agency is the right to choose between good and evil.
(2 Nephi 2:27)
-If we choose wrong we give our agency to Satan who rewards us with misery and captivity.
-If we choose right we give out agency to Christ who rewards us with more light/intelligence/spiritual energy and more agency.

As our ablilty to reason between good and evil increases-
(more intelligence, so in a way we're getting more energy to power our good and evil metal detector)
-we can more easily see which choice is right. As we can make the right choice better our thinking and choices get closer to what God wants until our thinking perfectly corresponds with God's.
(This is seen with prophets God gave the sealing power to. He wouldn't do that unless He knew that prophet wouldn't misuse it, ex. Elijah)
ONce we reached that point, if we've completed all prerequisites (baptism, temple, temple marriage, geneology) we've basically reached the point where we have our C&E.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:12 pm


My friend,

You certainly are a wise one. One of the best comments you made though was how you likened the gospel to the word of wisdom. All topics begin with the easiest way to understand them. This is the milk. As we advance in our understanding, we begin to get the meat. You have to have the milk before the meat.

So, if you don't mind, let me tweak a few of the things you said, not because they are wrong, but because I believe you are ready for some meat.

Quote:
Anyways, our agency is the right to choose between good and evil.
(2 Nephi 2:27)
-If we choose wrong we give our agency to Satan who rewards us with misery and captivity.
-If we choose right we give out agency to Christ who rewards us with more light/intelligence/spiritual energy and more agency.


Before I say that free agency is not necessarily choosing between good and evil, I would submit to you the concept that agency has very little to do with choosing at all. We cannot give away our agency to Satan. Satan has no Agency, no intelligence, no light, and no truth. We can LOSE agency by choosing wrong. We can GAIN agency by choosing right.

At first this sounds wrong. We teach and are taught that free agency is choosing between good and evil. I taught it my whole mission. That is the milk. Remember, you always start slow and build upon the foundation that you have built. So why do we teach something that isn't true? Because, in a way, it is. If we were to start teaching the way I talk in here, we would lose alot of people. Remember, truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it. So, people must be righteous enough to understand certain principles. There are some things an unrighteous man will never understand. Sin acts as blinders, keeping people from the truth.

Does God have agency?


Of course He does. He has all agency and He is a free agent.

But is He choosing between right and wrong?


Of course He isn't. He is only chooses right. He will never choose wrong.

Satan has no agency. He can't choose right. He can only choose wrong. He can't see the light to choose the right.

One last thing...

Before we were spirits, we were intelligences. This is not the same term as in the glory of God is intelligence, or light and truth. And you are right. Matter cannot be destroyed or made. You are a very bright young man! wink

snaksie
Crew

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Sunday School - µ Intelligent Discussions µ

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