What makes a person, heritage, pride, or nationality?

[The Meaning of Sky]

Somewhat similar to Anya's (Anna's?) thread about using the term Celtic, only a little more varied...

First I want to get out of the way that I'm sorry I haven't talked much in this guild; I love Irish-related things but I am very shy and conscience that I might offend or get yelled at by someone (mastigophobia).

Okay, anyway.

What do you think makes a person, where they come from, or where they live? As billions of people know, most Americans are not really Americans, so don't you think it would make sense that "American" as it's used, is an improper term?

Of course, America is known as the world's "Melting Pot." There's a little of everything here. Mostly Native-something, African, Irish, English, Russian, etc. But the actual number of "Native Americans" (who in my opinion, should be the only ones allowed to call themselves "Americans") is actually extremely small. I don't know many people that go to another country and automatically call themselves a person of that country, so, why should we? We've been here about five hundred years, sure... I guess this is hard to explain.

For instance. I am a carbon copy of my dad (though, I'm a girl), therefore putting me on the Irish side of the family (though through research I've done, the Rea clan originated from Scotland, then went to Ireland, then America... clarifications on that?). Now, I absolutely hate calling myself American, simply because of the absolutely horrendous reputation we carry on ourselves. We shove up in everyone's business, destroy and then repair, have to be number one, fat, lazy, stupid, greedy... I could go on. I am not in any one of those categories, so to go to other places and call myself American is both degrading and highly embarrassing, because people will look at you and say, "Oh, she's American."

(I know this from when I lived in Japan. I was there as a child and whenever an American was around, the Japanese would give harsh glares or just walk away like they were infected or something. This is completely understandable, but my point.)

So, do you think a person should call themselves where their family originated from (by heritage) or the country they live in (nationality). Or do you think they should call themselves whatever country they're proud to have some relations to (a mix of heritage and nationality, I suppose).

Discuss opinions.

 

[Scottie2010]

I feel that people should call themselves by what country they are proud to have connections to. I don't like to offend people either, but I do live in America and I am half Irish and half Italian. I am very proud of my heritage and so I like to say that I am Irish and Italian, not American, even though that is where I live.  

[Matt Pniewski]

Quote:

Now, I absolutely hate calling myself American, simply because of the absolutely horrendous reputation we carry on ourselves. We shove up in everyone's business, destroy and then repair, have to be number one, fat, lazy, stupid, greedy... I

That's stupid. I call myself a Chicagoan, do I think that associates me with Bootleggers, Pimps, Rioters, ect? Does an Irish person associate themselves with nationalism, xenophobia, and racism? When you have a country or culture, there is a flip side. There is the negative connotations, whether the majority represents that or not. So I'm not trying to rag on Ireland. I'm channeling the anger of my uncle, a man whom I care for very much who deals with much strife from the right wing in Ireland because his job is to find homes for nonwhite refugees in Ireland. Point is, that is the stereotype about Ireland. I don't associate the Irish people like that, why should people think American is a dirty word?


I'm a Chicagoan. I'm associated with the big city, with the great lakes, and the best damn pizza in the world (New York can suck it, and Italy can stop lying and saying our food is Italian). I'm associated with a rich heritage, and great modern American folklore. I'm proud to say Dillinger was on our side. Not John Dillinger the criminal or petty thug, but the folk hero he became.

Do I also identify myself as Irish? Not exactly. I'm Irish American. Irish American Culture is not Irish nor is it American. It's both but neither. It's your blood, the part of your heritage you identify with the most, your location, it's a lot of things.  

[The Meaning of Sky]

I should have posted it there; lol. Sorry about that.

But (and you're welcome by the way) that's my total point, being called American is disgraceful, on the most part. I know that no everyone thinks this way about Americans (Like it's mostly the southern Japanese that hate Americans, the northerners love anyone), but it's a "generalized" category of Americans, and either way I don't like calling myself American for any reason.

I can see why we started because of the whole "difference" thing (to your whole thing about the English/British and Spaniards), but really, we aren't Americans.

According to my family line, I'm Irish/Scottish. Normally I associate myself with Irish. Our family is very much so (while we don't do anything to outwardly scream "LOL WE'RE IRISH", such as speaking Gaelic and having accents and what not), but from what I've heard that they're like, we're extremely (and rather unintentionally... maybe) similar.

A few people have gotten mad at me for associating myself this way however, and having an "affinity" for the home country, but really I'm just interested in the heritage. Same goes for my liking of Japanese stuff. There's people that say "YOU'RE NOT JAPANESE STFU" and I'm like... lol, hello.. I lived there and my step mom is Japanese... I kinda have a right/reason. So I wanted to see what other people thought about this.

 

[The Meaning of Sky]

Wow, really? (about the St. Patty's day thing) Here in my town, it's like.. a festival. lol. Of course it's the whole ol' American way of doing it (green beer and getting drunk), we still make a huge deal out of it. We even have parades.

As for the discriminating, I didn't know they had it that soon ago. That really sucks. I've never had that issue, or with my family, but I guess it was because we were "model Americans" on the outside.

That's another reason I hate Americans, though. They'll either love you until you die, or hate you until you die, then love you. Prime example is Michael Jackson, but there's no need to go into that; it's off topic.

 

[Tibbett]

Great thread.
I honestly think you should associate yourself with where you come from rather than your ancestral ties. People should not be stereotyped by there nationality anyway. A country or a word doesn't have control over who you are or how you feel. A tie or interest in Ireland is great but does not make you Irish. I'm Dublin born and raised and I don't understand everyone's struggle to call themselves Irish. I agree with Matt Pniewski. Everyone seems to skim over the Troubles in Ireland. I don't associate myself with Ireland. I'm Cían and I'm Irish but the word Irish represents where I'm from or my culture. It has no control over how I feel or how I act.
I don't believe in calling yourself Irish if you weren't born in Ireland. It's just a word to show where you were born and raised. If you weren't you should not automatically associate yourself with Ireland. It should be part of who you are and not define you. I don't care if you're American or Irish, French or Asian as long as you are a nice person. It's great to show your heritage but not as your actual nationality. na·tion·al·i·ty (nsh-nl-t, nsh-nl-)
n. pl. na·tion·al·i·ties
1. The status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization.
After of course it's great to show your Irish heritage as part of your personality!  

[Matt Pniewski]

Tibbett

Great thread.
I honestly think you should associate yourself with where you come from rather than your ancestral ties. People should not be stereotyped by there nationality anyway. A country or a word doesn't have control over who you are or how you feel. A tie or interest in Ireland is great but does not make you Irish. I'm Dublin born and raised and I don't understand everyone's struggle to call themselves Irish. I agree with Matt Pniewski. Everyone seems to skim over the Troubles in Ireland. I don't associate myself with Ireland. I'm Cían and I'm Irish but the word Irish represents where I'm from or my culture. It has no control over how I feel or how I act.

But for some reason everyone automatically is unable to call themselves American... But Irish is okay... No Culture or Country is flawless.

Quote:

I don't believe in calling yourself Irish if you weren't born in Ireland. It's just a word to show where you were born and raised.

It's not nationality, but culture. As I said, there's Irish Culture, there's American Culture. Then there is Irish American culture. I do have a problem with people who claim it's the same thing as Irish Culture. If people ask what I am, I say I'm Chicagoan. If people want to know my background, I say Irish and Polish heritage. I'd say Irish first because I'm actually farther removed from My polish heritage by blood, and just in general.

One thing I remember is the "Irish Wakes" on the South Side of Chicago being more like parties..... People having a drink, and singing song, socializing, and overall having a blast. I do not know, seeing that i've never been to Ireland, if this has anything to do with Ireland at all. But it's part of MY culture, as an Irish American. This is what we do.




I also don't buy this "You have to be born there to be part of that Culture." Now, you can't just like Guinness and Potatoes and say your Irish, or get drunk at a St. Patrick's day parade. You really have to understand and appreciate the culture, and have some sort of connection to Ireland besides your own "Interest" in it.

You can also become part of another culture just by picking up traits as the years go on. It just works out that way. A good example is one of my uncle's refugees, coming from Africa. Obviously not Irish. But I believe if he lives there for most of his life, we can safely call him Irish by the end of it.

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You're right. . . and I won't even get started on the St. Patrick's day thing. I get so upset during St. Patrick's day with the way it's celebrated here, and so many people running around saying their "Irish" when their most defiantly not. Maybe their family was Irish at one time, but I'd bet it was far removed by now. I just hate the fake appreciation, and how on a holy day - people run around drunk and green outfits. Ugh. . .

Yeah, it's depressing sometimes. Mostly because I lived a mile from the South Side Irish Parade. You know how I talked about being "Irish American" is a whole culture of it's own? And I also said some parts of a culture are best left forgotten? Yeah, this is one of them.

You say it's people claiming their Irish, who are so far removed. That's a damn lie, most of these people have never been Irish at all. Never once. Hell, none of them even had ancestors in Ireland. But, they do love drinking. And fighting.


It's a damn shame. It's actually come to a point where some of the Irish Culture centers in the Chicago area (and we actually have a few) refuse to support the South Side Irish Parade, because it's an Embarassment. Well, then again, the parade did get banned because of all the underage drinking, fighting, and how much strain it put on the Chicago Police Force.


Sorry, I have PLENTY of issues with St. Patrick's Day in America. It's just a cosmic joke. People get drunk, fight, piss on my lawn, use drugs, and fool around on a day that's supposed to be a saint. I'm not even catholic, but I'm offended by this.  

[Animated Beauty]

While I was looking for a good Irish guild to join, I read a lot of the posts in this particular Guild and was extremely interested in a lot of the topics you have here. This one specifically gave me a lot to think about.

I live in America and though my family is primarily German, Polish, and French- coming from My grandfathers grandmothers maiden name which was Coultier- and my dad and his family were all born in Germany.
My 4th great grandmother on my mothers side was from Ireland and that's about all I have connecting me to Ireland as far as lineage goes, but I have a respect for Ireland that I can't say I have for anywhere else. Deep in my heart I know I belong in Ireland and pray that I can go some day soon. My brother still grows the irish red in his facial hair though~
I do have lots of friends with Irish heritage too and I love hearing about where they've come from. An Irish supper is the best kind of supper by far! heart

So my opinion is "Home is where the heart is" and I'll be damned if anyone tells me I don't belong where I feel I belong. smile  

[Matt Pniewski]

Animated Beauty

An Irish supper is the best kind of supper by far! heart

)

My ex girlfriend told me my Tastebuds were "Irish". She then went on to discuss how different cultures adapt to like the food prominent amongst their people, and some of that does, in fact, get past down genetically. I just found it interesting. Sure, it's not exact. I'm sure plenty of people in Mexico would prefer chinese food.

Being an American, we are generally very versatile, but the taste preferences do pass down.

My ex girlfriend, however, eats and cooks just about anything. She attributes it to the fact that her family, for generations, never stayed in one place.


This is probably just her speculation. I have no idea where it all comes from. I just know what I want to eat at the end of the day. And actually, I'm going to forget all about anything "Irish" and get some Pizza right now.