Worshipping the ancient religion

[Rennie`]

Hiya

Call me mad but since visiting Egypt I have learned so much about the religion, about Horus etc that I think I fallen in love with it, more then what I did with my ex-boyfriend (sarcasm!). I am agnostic and I was thinking of following the ancient religion inwhich people worshipped in Ancient Egypt.

Yeah, call me mad! Lol.

But my only concern is that I am not Egyptian and I do not live in Egypt so this will be a problem. I will not be able to visit the temples if I needed to. Also Water Princess sent me a PM aaaaages ago on the religions and it deleted when my inbox became full so that kind of annoyed me so I have no information on religions.

I know, more of less, how the world was created, the story of Osiris, Seth, their 2 sisters, raising Horus and then killing his evil uncle but I still have more to know!

Information on this topic would be most appreciated!  

[WebenBanu]

Actually, you're in good company. Several Egyptologists have become so impressed with the gods they study that they are known to pray and even make offerings to certain ones from time to time- particularly before the on-site digs. I think it would be rather difficult to familiarize yourself with this great culture without developing a deep and abiding respect for them and their way of life- they had a lot of good ideas, a lot of things which our modern world could really stand to learn. And at least one egyptologist is actively and fully involved in the modern revival of the faith- Tamara Siuda, who put in a brief appearance on The History Channel's recent special on "The Egyptian Book of the Dead" was corronated about ten years ago as the Nisut-Bity (King of Upper and Lower Egypt) and today presides over a rather large and growing community of people living the faith in the modern world... all over the world. There are a few other groups who maintain similar practices, and I've spent some time with a few of them as well. They tend to be run by people who were trained by Tamara Siuda, however, and none of them have matched her performance in education, professional appearances, or activity as a spiritual leader nor have their groups been around as long- therefore they are not quite as developed. There are also people of no temple affiliation who cultivate their own relationships with the gods.

Some of Tamara Siuda's books, particularly The Neteru of Kemet: An Introduction, may be helpful. Her temple's website (The House of Netjer) can also be accessed at http://www.kemet.org , and they have a wonderful message board system at http://www.netjer.org/forums . I also recommend Henri Frankfort's Ancient Egyptian Religion: An Interpretation and Erik Hornung's Conceptions of God in Ancient Egypt: The One and the Many. It's safest to stay away from most New Age and NeoPagan authors, however- many of them are stuck in a misinformation feedback loop and you have to be pretty well informed in the area to spot where they hit and where they miss. Your best bet is to continue your study of all aspects of the culture through academically accepted sources- Egyptian religion was so much woven into every aspect of life that practically any area of egyptology should tell you something about it, and the broader your range of study the better.

As far as ethnicity goes- ancient Egypt was a surprisingly ethnically diverse place. So long as a person took up the Egyptian culture, he or she seems to have assimilated into the nation fairly well. Culture seems to have been more important to them than skin tone.

Egyptian religion is indeed rooted strongly in the land from which it was born and in which it flourished, and this is why Tamara Siuda went to Egypt for her corronation- in fact they are going back there in early November to celebrate her Heb-Sed (Jubilee Festival) and re-corronation. Their group organizes pilgrimages to Egypt as frequently as possible so that members can go there and see the land of the gods- she says that when you go there in person, you really start to understand why the religion is the way it is. Personally, I've never been- but maybe I'll go someday.

Going to Egypt is not a requirement for the religion, however- even in ancient times there were instances of gods' temples being built and maintained in Nubia, Kush, the Sinai, and other areas under Egyptian control. Every Egyptian yearned to return to Egypt, and the gods seemed to hold a special love for that land as well, but They could go where ever Their temples were established. Tamara Siuda's group has established several shrines (and even a main temple) here in the States, so I see no reason for your location to hold you back either.

Bear in mind that the temples of ancient Egypt were not the places of public worship that we are accustomed to with churches and synagogues today. They were the houses of the gods- private residences in which the gods could rest and refresh Themselves between Their divine duties- and although the temples played an important economic role in the community they were not generally open to the public. There would have been a courtyard out front where people would gather in fellowship and prayer and for many other community purposes; for the House of Netjer this function is fulfilled by their message boards.

For the average person, personal piety was expressed through daily life- the gods and Their roles were actively associated with various crafts and activities, and the people honored Them through their work and daily actions. People usually had a small niche somewhere in their household which would house a deity statue (wealthier people might have had larger enclosures), as well as a niche which would host an ancestor bust or two, and offerings would be left to the gods and the beloved dead. This is still done today- both in certain parts of Egypt, and abroad.

About the "evil god Set" (which I usually write as Stkh, so if you see me waver back and forth, that's why wink )- Set was demonized during a relatively small portion of Egyptian history, after Egypt's domination at the hands of the Hyksos who identified themselves with Him. The Hyksos were not a popular people among the Egyptians- in fact, by all accounts they were tyrants. They identified with Set because of His reputation for terrifying power (He was a god of lightening, storms, and the desert) and His association with foreign peoples (due to the way His land- the desert- lay all around the boundaries of the Egyptian nation). The Egyptians, oppressed and outraged by their occupation, went with it- and Set became downright unpopular. He regained some of His popularity during the reign of the 19th dynasty (including Seti and Ramses the Great), who considered Him to be their patron deity. However when the Greeks arrived on the scene and began making snap judgements about identifying the Egyptian gods with their own, they mistakenly associated Set with Typhon due to Their shared penchant for storms, and also Typhon with Apep due to Their shared position as pantheon "bad guy," and in the process actually managed to confuse Set with the very monster against which He fought each day! In my opinion, this is a really fabulous argument for why we should not try to identify gods across pantheons due to a few superficial similarities, heh. Set was never viewed as an all-loving, coddling, fatherly deity, and the Egyptians always maintained a healthy respect for His abilities and temper; however, He was not evil.

There is very little about "good" and "evil" in Egyptian religion- it's more about order and chaos. Set is chaotic, and sometimes destructive- but His forms of chaos and destruction are the kind which tear down dangerous obstructions and return the rest of the situation to the ordered existence which was so essential to the preservation of the Egyptian world. I like to compare it to the use of dynamite to blow up a river obstruction, in order to restore the flow of water to an environment which would otherwise dry up and die- flashy, destructive, and frightening... but highly effective. Apep, on the other hand, was a force of pure destruction- nothing good came of it, and this serpent-like creature was the embodiment of the chaotic forces which Set fought against. The Egyptians were often fond of fighting fire with fire, so a chaotic monster would require an equally chaotic warrior to overcome it- so Set was placed at the front of the sun god's boat, because only He was strong enough to turn Apep aside each day (although even He was never able to destroy it). Set's role in the death of Wsyr (Osiris) is another example of this needed destruction which is often misunderstood. If Set had not killed Wsyr, then His son Hrw (Horus) would never have ascended the throne, Ast (Isis)'s tears would never have caused the Nile to flood, the people would have starved due to a lack of a flood, and Hrw would not have been challenged to become worthy of the throne. Wsyr would not have been resurrected, and the way to the afterlife would have remained closed. Wsyr was also strongly identified with grain- particularly wheat- and I suspect that His dismemberment is a reference to the threshing of the grain, which must be done before it can be used to feed the people. It doesn't make the situation any less emotionally traumatic, but it was something which had to be done and Set's just the kind of guy to go ahead and do it.

I hope some of that helps and/or was interesting.^_^  

[Rennie`]

Woah I love your knowledge! But reading that has given me a better understanding of the Gods, in Christianity there is good and evil (God and Satan) but as you explained with the Egyptians it is chaos and order, I can understand how they thought this up.

The story of Osiris and Isis is amazing, it just all fits in nicely with the landscape (especially Isis's tears creating the Nile) but their medical knowledge also amazes me. I visited Kom Ombo Temple and at the back there was a store room with hieroglyphics on the walls (Lol, what temple doesn'?) explaing operations. They carried out abortions and eye catorak operations! Their tools are just like ours, like tweezers, I think if we discovered these temples and translated the hieroglyphics sooner we would have more sophisticated knowledge today, thanks to the marvellous Egyptians!

If I was to take the Egyptian religion further I would probably need to buy a mini shrine when I go back to Egypt next year (going to Cairo!!!!!) but at the mean time I have a Ankh 6 inches tall made of brass (with hieroglyphics that I am trying to translate .... if they are actually hieroglyphics) that i brought in a Nubian village near Aswan. I think Horus (Or Hrw) is more appealing to me, so I would have to buy something of him, or his Mother.

Also I wear a necklace with a cartouche on it (spelling J-A-D-E ... J = Snake A = Hawk D = Hand E = Reed . In order to sound like 'Jade' I should have a Snake, arm and a hand) that was made in Luxor, 900 carat silver. It's the closest thing I have to Egypt that I can have with me all the time and I have that close connection to it. At home I have a Lotus Flower Essence which is gorgeous! Also I have a Papyrus scroll of the Eye of Horus. I need a shrine badly! Lol.

A word of advice, when you do go to Egypt you must do the following things, Cruise of the Nile from Luxor to Aswan and back then a trip to Cairo then Alexandria. The cruise shows you so many thinks, Karnak, Luxor, Esna, Philea, Edfu and Kom Ombo Temple, Abu Simbel, Valley of the Kings and Queens and Hatipsuits Temple. There was an optional trip to Dendra which I wished my parents took me too! Also visit Luxor Museum, you will see 2 mummies and some of Tutenkhamun's possesions recieved from his tomb like his Chariot. I haven't been to Cairo yet but when I do I will tell you all about it!

Thanks again for the advice!  

[Rennie`]

Also, what's the name of the religion/s?  

[Rennie`]

Never mind, I found out, it's Kemetic Orphodoxy

Nice to see you on that forum, WebenBanu whee  

[WebenBanu]

I've seen pictures of the surgical instruments at Kom Ombo, it must have been amazing to see it in person! I'm very interested in AE medicine, too! I was disappointed to find that there isn't a good full length translation of the Ebers Papyrus- it's one of the longest medical "textbooks" to be found so far. The translation I have is incomplete- it describes itself as a translation with commentary, but it's more like a standup comic routine. confused The author quotes tidbits of information here and there, but spends at least half the book making fun of it. The only part of the papyrus which he gives any extensive coverage is the chapter on the circulatory system- it was clearly the only segment for which he had any respect, and it pissed me off that he was that arrogant and that obvious about it. I didn't buy that book to find out how much of a moron this guy thought the author was, I was hoping that the "commentary" would have covered speculation as to why the Egyptians used the ingredients they did, and if I was lucky some speculation on what sort of mechanism might have been in place for these treatments to have the effects the doctors said that they had. As you've mentioned, the Egyptians' art of medicine was remarkably effective for their time period- they even did repaired skull fractures and relieved brain swelling. There's a mummy at one of our local museums who has a pin in his knee- a surgical pin, and the bone is healed over it. Bone is slow growing, so that proves that he survived, and for all appearances it looks like the surgery was a success! Can you imagine doing these sorts of things in an age before anesthetics? The museum curator told us that was one of the reasons why Skhmt, the patron of the medical field, was portrayed as a lion. You had to be somewhat fierce to go through with these treatments, on your patients' behalf. Any hesitation would only prolong their suffering.

I use a wooden video cabinet for my naos- it actually works quite well.^_^ Do they have replicas of the shrines in Egypt? That would be so awesome! When you go to Cairo, be sure to take lots of pictures and post some of them here!^_^ The ankh will make a nice shrine fixture- if you decide to take the Beginner's Class over at the Kemetic Orthodoxy site they'll ask you to set up a small shrine area without any specific god or goddess figures in it for the duration of the class- so as not to hinder you at that point with a focus on any particular Name. Ankhs are fine, though, and a brass one will meet the purity requirements- they usually shy away from using plastic in shrines, and deity images are preferred to be of natural materials (such as stone or metal... and I think resin may be OK).

Here's a picture of my main shrine- it's got a lot of extraneous stuff on it, which makes it bigger and fancier than it really needs to be. The functional part of it is the wooden cabinet in the middle and the bowls, lamp, and incense burner in front of it. Of course, in this picture most of that's obscured by the flowers, but just to say shrines don't have to be this busy- this one's simply been accruing votive images and offerings over the years...

The lotus flower essence might make a nice incense, if you can get an oil diffuser to put in your shrine.

I'll take your advice on the trip! Honestly, I never really had much desire to go to Egypt until I read the itenerary for the pilgrimage which some of the KO people are on right now. And they get to go with Hemet, and celebrate her Heb Sed with her and listen to her talk about all the monuments and temples! Now I want to go, lol!

Quote:

Also, what's the name of the religion/s?
Never mind, I found out, it's Kemetic Orthodoxy

Kemetic Orthodoxy is the name being used by one of the modern revival groups- it's the largest organized group and has the longest history of any of the temples within this movement, and it's certainly the one with the most academic credits to its name, but there are others. The ancient Egyptians didn't really have a name for their religion, though- it was just what they did. The closest thing we have to a word for it is "heka," which is often translated as "magic." It'd probably be more accurate to say that heka is a science of applied religion- it's what happens when you take the things the religion tells you about the world and put it into active, practical use.

And thanks- it's cool to see you over there too! cool  

[Anknest Ra Horakhty]

Wow!! biggrin I didn't think anyone other than me ever thought of worshipping the religion. It is motivating to know that I am not alone in the Egyptian religion department.  

[Rennie`]

Anknest Ra Horakhty

Wow!! biggrin I didn't think anyone other than me ever thought of worshipping the religion. It is motivating to know that I am not alone in the Egyptian religion department.

When I was visiting a temple (somewhere between Luxor and Aswan) our Egyptologist told us that many Americans who visist these temples actually worship the Gods and I thought "Whoa, isn't this religion meant to be dead?" but it then gave me that incentive to think about joining them.  

[Rennie`]

Quote:

Can you imagine doing these sorts of things in an age before anesthetics?

I heard that anesthetic was used, they used Canabis. I did Medicine Through Time as a subject in History GCSE and we did a week on Ancient Egypt (Gosh, I wish I did more!).

Quote:

circulatory system

Another theory that the Egyptians used really facinates me! Geographically, the Nile is the main source of survival, it contains many nutrients that make the crops grow. Egyptian farmers made canals to bring water, from the Nile, to water the crops. If a canal was blocked the water couldn't get to the crops, resulting in the crops to die. Now, if you think of the heart, to the Egyptians it was the main organ that kept the body alive, with many viens and ateries containing blood from the heart to many parts of the body. When you got sick they assumed that a canal, or a vien/atery in the sense of the body, was blocked. They would attempt to unblock it. Unfortunatly because we did such little work on Egyptian medicine I have forgotton what methods or remedies they used but if I do find it I will definatly say!  

[WebenBanu]

Anknest Ra Horakhty

Wow!! biggrin I didn't think anyone other than me ever thought of worshipping the religion. It is motivating to know that I am not alone in the Egyptian religion department.

That's pretty much how I felt when I first found the reconstructionist movement, too. Here I thought I was blazing a new trail with my early attempts to honor the Egyptian gods in a manner which was based on Their own culture and Their people's traditional practices. I knew that there were Pagans who included Egyptian deities in their rites, but they were few and far between- and most of the ones I'd met just took a few Egyptian symbols and names and used them to decorate religious practices which really had very little to do with the actual Egyptian gods. So I started looking for research materials- poor college student that I was, I first checked the internet and found a thriving network of Kemetic reconstructionists who were literally years ahead of me! I was blown away, but really happy about it- this meant there would be more experienced practitioners who could give me advice and guidance, and ever since then I've been having a great time picking brains and books. wink

La-Renaissance-De-Amour

When I was visiting a temple (somewhere between Luxor and Aswan) our Egyptologist told us that many Americans who visit these temples actually worship the Gods and I thought "Whoa, isn't this religion meant to be dead?" but it then gave me that incentive to think about joining them.

There are people in Egypt who worship Them as well. If you go into the temples and show respect for them as holy places, sometimes the people who work there will speak more openly with you. I've known people who've gone to temples- such as Philae- and encountered guards there who consider themselves the modern priests of the temples. Sometimes, they will even allow people who show the proper respect into restricted areas of the temple to pray. Many of the village folk who live around the temples still practice some old traditions alongside their more mainstream faith- it's just a part of their culture, they don't make a big deal out of it or speak very openly of it, but they still do it. Requests for children, protection, and healing are still as much of a concern today as they were 3000 years ago.

La-Renaissance-De-Amour

Egyptian farmers made canals to bring water, from the Nile, to water the crops. If a canal was blocked the water couldn't get to the crops, resulting in the crops to die. Now, if you think of the heart, to the Egyptians it was the main organ that kept the body alive, with many viens and ateries containing blood from the heart to many parts of the body. When you got sick they assumed that a canal, or a vien/atery in the sense of the body, was blocked. They would attempt to unblock it. Unfortunatly because we did such little work on Egyptian medicine I have forgotton what methods or remedies they used but if I do find it I will definatly say!

You know, I don't think I've ever heard it put quite that way but that is a very interesting observation- and it makes sense.^_^ I wish I had some better books on Egyptian medicine. Much of what I've seen is by Robert Masters or some Sekhem, Seichim, and/or SKHM Reiki master, and as much as I admire their devotion none of them really use very solid egyptology (or sometimes any egyptology, it seems) in their research. I usually avoid their books. I wish that I could have gone to see this exhibition at the Met, but I'll have to settle for the online selection of artifacts. There is a book which catalogues the exhibit and I bought a copy, but I bought it as a gift for the KO head temple's library so I didn't have it long enough to read it myself. Maybe I'll buy another copy some time... or maybe I'll borrow it from their library the next time I visit, lol!  

[LabTech27]

that happened to me aswell,but the worship of the egyptian gods and godesses lead me to the path of wicca and now i think of them more of dieties,although in the egyptian relgion they are just dieaties of one big collasal god/godess, instead of going to a temple i just made a shrine in my home,full of figures of the dieties,i give offerings and burn incence and i can pray infront of it.  

[WebenBanu]

We have shrines in our homes too, which serve as the focus for some of our daily religious activities- I have three, at present. But there are also larger temple organizations which provide a place for Kemetics to interact as a community, and which offer classes and a range of spiritual services.^_^ I wasn't quite clear on what you were saying about Them being deities vs. not being deities, but Kemetics do certainly view the gods as being deities and we give offerings and burn incense for Them as well.

I used to be Wiccan- looks like I may have taken the reverse road that you have.^_^ I started out viewing the gods as aspects of the Wiccan Lord and Lady, and worshiping Them in a Wiccan context and honoring Wiccan holidays. Bast gradually led me toward an understanding of Their religion with respect to Their own cultural context, and to Djhwty- kind of both at the same time. The whole way I insisted that I'd always be Wiccan- I love the religion and never saw a reason to quit. Of course, now I look back and see that I was more of a NeoWiccan than a Wiccan... Wicca has its own godforms and rarely uses deities from other cultures- except to say that They're all really the same Two, or One (with which I tend to disagree)- but there is a lot of misinformation in the popularly available "Wiccan" commercial press, and by the time I'd read and experienced enough to perceive the truth of the situation I'd already ventured beyond her borders and into the realm of Egypt. Despite my (continued) fondness for the religion there came a point when I realized that nothing in my Book of Shadows was appropriate in the context of Egyptian religious and ritual context, and I officially changed my identification- although Western magic continues to fascinate me.

One rather large difference between Wicca and ancient Egyptian religion, is that Wicca has its own concepts of divinity and deity associations which are incompatible with those of ancient Egypt. Its holidays, also, are a combination of Celtic and Norse festivals- the ritual format being largely based on ceremonial magic from the Golden Dawn and Freemasonry; Wiccan holidays are tied into a European concept of the seasons, which are different from their Egyptian counterparts. Several key ritual and magical components are also either completely out of context, or mirror images of one another. In fact, the two religions are so altogether different, that one might say the only real similarities between them are that both frequently make use of candles and incense.^_^ But even then, the magical associations of some herbs used in the incenses are different.

I lack both the time and the experience to give a complete account of every discrepancy between the two religions, but here are a few notable examples gleaned from my own experience. The concept of "casting a circle" is not part of Egyptian rituals- to the Wicca it's a protective device which transports the worshiper to a place between the divine realm and the earthly one; to Egyptians, a place of worship is protected by the presence of the deity itself, along with the worshiper's adherence to rules of purity and honor to the beloved dead, and there is no need to go "between the worlds" as the gods are viewed as an important part of this world right here and right now. Circles are sometimes used specifically as a device of protective magic- particularly when dealing with the sick- but are not a regular part of any magical or religious practice. The Wiccan concept of deity traits are frequently at odds with Egyptian deity models- Wicca views the moon as feminine, the Egyptians view it as masculine (Djhwty, Khnsw, Iah); Wicca associates the Earth with their Goddess, to the Egyptians it is its own god (Gb). Likewise, Wicca associates the sky with their God, to the Egyptians it is primarily feminine (Tfnwt, Hwt-Hrw). Wicca works with trinities of Maiden, Mother, Crone- or Youth, Man, and Sage- whereas there is no equivalent in Egyptian religion, though there are holy families of Mother, Father, and Child and some aspected divinities. Wicca views all gods as aspects of their God, all goddesses as aspects of their Goddess, and the God and Goddess as aspects of the One. Egyptian religion tends to view the gods and goddesses largely on Their own terms, but acknowledges Their unity as forces working from a similar frame of reference (a divine one) and toward a similar goal- a community of gods. They would combine deities in syncretic names (Amn-Ra, for instance), which are partnerships of gods which should be treated on Their own terms as unique deities; members of such partnerships are still viewed as separate entities which may be addressed separately. There are some deities Who have a more intimate relationship with one another, but Egyptian gods are never identified with foreign deities- not until Egypt was conquered by foreign peoples, at any rate, who attempted to bring their own deities into the mix; and by all accounts, it didn't go over well with the native Egyptians. wink Egypt has its own festivals, its own cycle of seasons (Innundation, Growth, and Harvest; as opposed to Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter), and its own style of magic. Whereas Wicca commonly calls for portions of the God and Goddess' offerings to be left outside in a wilderness area, this would be offensive to Egyptian deities- Whose offerings are reverted to Their people with Their blessing. Throwing it out would convey that the offering, while good enough for Them, is not good enough for you. Alternately, it could be considered a very rude way of conveying that you don't want or think you need Their blessings or Their bounty. Several Egyptian deities have taboos which are not addressed in Wicca, or which are even contradicted in that religion. The list goes on...

Learning about Egyptian theology, religion, and culture really enriched my experience of the Egyptian deities- much of it just doesn't make sense, or presents only a surface-level accounting of itself when viewed from a foreign cultural perspective. This is probably why the Egyptians viewed the Greeks with such contempt- as childish barbarians who were incapable of comprehending the depths of their theology and philosophy. The Greeks (and Romans) were notorious for attempting to comprehend every religion and philosophy in terms of their own pantheon and cultural conventions. The resulting misunderstandings of Egyptian theology and practice, and their botched interpretations of several of the Egyptian deities, strike me as the most convincing argument to date for the importance of taking cultural context into consideration.

Just my $0.02 on why I've come to value egyptology and ancient Egyptian culture as a source on Egyptian religion. No offense is meant.^_^  

[Kitty Da Great]

hmmmm.... i like this disscussion, my religion is called Catophomodoxy... its the religion me and my pack believe in and other packs also...it is based upon old egyptian lycanthropy....hm...ok pm me....i am kitty by the way...  

[WebenBanu]

Hello, kitty! Old Egyptian lycanthropy? I don't believe I've ever seen it mentioned in any of my sources, could you tell us a little more about that? And maybe suggest some reading for those of us who'd like to follow up on it?^_^ I'm always looking for new subjects to explore, and I find these sorts of legends to be fascinating. 3nodding  

[Hellenistic Wisdom]

Ooh! I'm glad that someone knew the name of the religion! It's hard to find books on! My fiancee and I are trying to incorporate it into our practices, as Seht seems to have chosen him as one of his own.