ThePhilosopher
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- Posted: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:32:23 +0000
Hello and welcome, this is my thread about religion and life. I'm going to be updating and replying to those posts I find intelligent or relevant, I'm not giving up anytime soon. I've had this thread in mind for a long time.
Please please PLEASE read the first post before posting.
A brief introduction: This is not another "I can disprove God!" thread. Well, at least not in the same way. I promise. When it comes to philosophy and religion, you can't really prove or disprove anything like you can in science, or other observable fields. So, I'm not going to "prove" anything. I'm just going to present my theory/belief because as far as I know I'm the only one who understands/believes it (to it's fullest extent).
I'm not sure to where to start, so I'll start with human nature:
1.The Human tendency to "Believe"
All throughout history different civilizations and different cultures have all had varying religious beliefs. From polytheistic Olympus to trickster semi-gods, to Pharaohs who are both man and god. Every single culture has believed itself to have the correct system, to understand things as they really are. We all scoff at anyone else (maybe not out loud) who believes differently then us. Considering how many people have been "wrong" before us, how can anyone think that they have finally got it right?
If you're reading this thread, chances are you believe in a god, or a higher purpose, or are religious/spiritual in some way. In other words, you don't worry about a lack of meaning to life (at least not in the same way I do). I don't see any meaning to life. You can kinda make your own, but it's still not the same thing as, say, heaven. This often leads me to the thought "Ok, since there's no meaning, and humanity is just uselessly repeating the same mistakes over and over with no hope of ever changing, why don't I just get it over with and kill myself?" The answer, of course, is that I'm a coward. Also, there is a chance that I'm wrong, or that my feelings will change later, so I might as well keep going. Death is final. Now, obviously these thoughts are not helpful for a human being who is trying to reproduce and survive. So, by the theory of evolution, the majority of humans are programmed not to. We have a mental tendency to enjoy living and to not want to die. Why shouldn't this extend into our belief systems as well? I can't imagine that atheistic beliefs have helped us survive more easily in the past. However, when your belief system says that you can't use contraceptives, and that heaven is waiting for you, you will tend to persevere and prosper. Therefore, believing in religion, in one form or another, is of benefit to human beings to survive and continues to be passed down as a mental tendency.
In order for us to survive in the first place, we have to be sure that there is one, otherwise we wouldn't have the mental stability to go on. We are designed to fear death, and to really believe that there is a meaning, because otherwise we would kill ourselves, and that's a disadvantage looking at things from an evolutionary standpoint. Therefore, the only humans that live to breed are those with the mental defense of believing in a meaning of life.
Well, that's a real positive start, don't ya think? The next part is confusing and probably won't make much sense, but please do try to understand what I'm explaining.
2.Why we don't need a God as an explanation
The one question pointed at atheists that seems to go unanswered is, "If there isn't a God, how/why are we here?" Well, I have an answer. You won't like it much, though.
I was talking with a friend of mine a long while back, about sentient life on a planet. He couldn't get past how slim of a chance there is of a species basically taking over a planet and becoming sentient. You have to admit, nature does a fine job of staying balanced. I told him that it wasn't about statistics, or that it just happened to happen here. I told him that in order for us to even being having this conversation, you have to already be sentient. It's assumed that if you can think about it, you are sentient. So of course it happened here, since we're talking about it. It wasn't until a while later that I realised that this applied on a much larger scale. The universe, as a whole, exists because we perceive it. Think about it: A million existences can come and go, but if a planet somewhere in them doesn't have life, (or something similar which might be outside of our understanding) then nothing really takes notice, and they don't really exist. In order for us to ask the question "Why do I exist?" you have to exist. Similarly, for you to ask "Why am I awake?" you have to be awake. We exist in the first place only because we have to in order for the universe to exist, and because we have to in order to ask the question.
3.Conclusions, and more very depressing thoughts
Warning: #3 is simply my interpertation and personal opinion of 1 and 2, I'm not making an argument for it. Stop calling me depressed. I'm not.
Edit: Since my friend has been bumping the thread (I would ask him very kindly to STOP IT), I feel it is best to insert an update here. People seem to have some misguided view that I'm emo, or that I'm going to kill myself or something. People also think that I make a very sudden an illogical jump from #2 to #3. This is understandable. If you take #2 literally, than there doesn't need to be a God or any other high power. I see this as meaning these isn't any objective meaning to life. Thus, what follows:
So, there is no meaning to life, but humans will continue to forever believe so, because it is advantageous to them. Many will remain convinced because they "have faith!", or they can "just feel that I'm right". These are mental defenses which let people continue to believe what they do, because otherwise their systems would fall apart, and they would probably get depressed. Human nature isn't going to change anytime soon, technology is only getting more and more deadly, so I'm won't be surprised if we kill ourselves one day. Since time destroys everything, humans won't be around forever, and I don't care when we all die, I just hope it isn't during my lifetime.
OK! there it is. I would appreciate comments/debate about #s 1 and 2, 3 is just personal opinion. I will try to update and keep the thread alive, this isn't just some recent issue I wanted to hear opinions about. I'm in for the long run, especially if you have something to contribute to the conversation.
Please please PLEASE read the first post before posting.
A brief introduction: This is not another "I can disprove God!" thread. Well, at least not in the same way. I promise. When it comes to philosophy and religion, you can't really prove or disprove anything like you can in science, or other observable fields. So, I'm not going to "prove" anything. I'm just going to present my theory/belief because as far as I know I'm the only one who understands/believes it (to it's fullest extent).
I'm not sure to where to start, so I'll start with human nature:
1.The Human tendency to "Believe"
All throughout history different civilizations and different cultures have all had varying religious beliefs. From polytheistic Olympus to trickster semi-gods, to Pharaohs who are both man and god. Every single culture has believed itself to have the correct system, to understand things as they really are. We all scoff at anyone else (maybe not out loud) who believes differently then us. Considering how many people have been "wrong" before us, how can anyone think that they have finally got it right?
If you're reading this thread, chances are you believe in a god, or a higher purpose, or are religious/spiritual in some way. In other words, you don't worry about a lack of meaning to life (at least not in the same way I do). I don't see any meaning to life. You can kinda make your own, but it's still not the same thing as, say, heaven. This often leads me to the thought "Ok, since there's no meaning, and humanity is just uselessly repeating the same mistakes over and over with no hope of ever changing, why don't I just get it over with and kill myself?" The answer, of course, is that I'm a coward. Also, there is a chance that I'm wrong, or that my feelings will change later, so I might as well keep going. Death is final. Now, obviously these thoughts are not helpful for a human being who is trying to reproduce and survive. So, by the theory of evolution, the majority of humans are programmed not to. We have a mental tendency to enjoy living and to not want to die. Why shouldn't this extend into our belief systems as well? I can't imagine that atheistic beliefs have helped us survive more easily in the past. However, when your belief system says that you can't use contraceptives, and that heaven is waiting for you, you will tend to persevere and prosper. Therefore, believing in religion, in one form or another, is of benefit to human beings to survive and continues to be passed down as a mental tendency.
animalsrox77
If there is no meaning of life, then why are we living it?
In order for us to survive in the first place, we have to be sure that there is one, otherwise we wouldn't have the mental stability to go on. We are designed to fear death, and to really believe that there is a meaning, because otherwise we would kill ourselves, and that's a disadvantage looking at things from an evolutionary standpoint. Therefore, the only humans that live to breed are those with the mental defense of believing in a meaning of life.
Well, that's a real positive start, don't ya think? The next part is confusing and probably won't make much sense, but please do try to understand what I'm explaining.
2.Why we don't need a God as an explanation
The one question pointed at atheists that seems to go unanswered is, "If there isn't a God, how/why are we here?" Well, I have an answer. You won't like it much, though.
I was talking with a friend of mine a long while back, about sentient life on a planet. He couldn't get past how slim of a chance there is of a species basically taking over a planet and becoming sentient. You have to admit, nature does a fine job of staying balanced. I told him that it wasn't about statistics, or that it just happened to happen here. I told him that in order for us to even being having this conversation, you have to already be sentient. It's assumed that if you can think about it, you are sentient. So of course it happened here, since we're talking about it. It wasn't until a while later that I realised that this applied on a much larger scale. The universe, as a whole, exists because we perceive it. Think about it: A million existences can come and go, but if a planet somewhere in them doesn't have life, (or something similar which might be outside of our understanding) then nothing really takes notice, and they don't really exist. In order for us to ask the question "Why do I exist?" you have to exist. Similarly, for you to ask "Why am I awake?" you have to be awake. We exist in the first place only because we have to in order for the universe to exist, and because we have to in order to ask the question.
3.Conclusions, and more very depressing thoughts
Warning: #3 is simply my interpertation and personal opinion of 1 and 2, I'm not making an argument for it. Stop calling me depressed. I'm not.
Edit: Since my friend has been bumping the thread (I would ask him very kindly to STOP IT), I feel it is best to insert an update here. People seem to have some misguided view that I'm emo, or that I'm going to kill myself or something. People also think that I make a very sudden an illogical jump from #2 to #3. This is understandable. If you take #2 literally, than there doesn't need to be a God or any other high power. I see this as meaning these isn't any objective meaning to life. Thus, what follows:
So, there is no meaning to life, but humans will continue to forever believe so, because it is advantageous to them. Many will remain convinced because they "have faith!", or they can "just feel that I'm right". These are mental defenses which let people continue to believe what they do, because otherwise their systems would fall apart, and they would probably get depressed. Human nature isn't going to change anytime soon, technology is only getting more and more deadly, so I'm won't be surprised if we kill ourselves one day. Since time destroys everything, humans won't be around forever, and I don't care when we all die, I just hope it isn't during my lifetime.
OK! there it is. I would appreciate comments/debate about #s 1 and 2, 3 is just personal opinion. I will try to update and keep the thread alive, this isn't just some recent issue I wanted to hear opinions about. I'm in for the long run, especially if you have something to contribute to the conversation.
