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Do you think that this child should be left in the custody of the mother and raised as a girl?

Yes, the mother has done little or nothing wrong. 0.50162232316677 50.2% [ 773 ]
Yes, but the mother needs to treat him like the boy he is. 0.045425048669695 4.5% [ 70 ]
I'm not sure. Need more info, really. 0.17845554834523 17.8% [ 275 ]
No. The father should have custody, but the child should see a therapist often about gender. 0.040882543802726 4.1% [ 63 ]
No, this child should be raised by his father as a boy. 0.029850746268657 3.0% [ 46 ]
POLLWHORE GIMME MAH GOLDS! 0.20376378974692 20.4% [ 314 ]
Total Votes:[ 1541 ]
1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 74 75 76 > >>

[size=18]Trans ID at Issue in Custody Case

By: ARTHUR S. LEONARD
04/05/2007

A trial judge's decision to switch custody of two young boys from their mother, who supports her older son's apparent desire to dress and act as a girl, to their father, who rejects the idea that his son is transsexual, has been upheld by an Ohio appeals court.


The March 23 opinion, written by 7th District Appellate Judge Cheryl L. Waite, reflects uncertainty about how early in life it can be said that somebody is transsexual.

V.S. and K.S. Smith married in 1994, and had two sons, born in 1994 and 1998. Under the terms of their 2001 divorce, it was determined the boys would live with their mother, V.S.

The older boy had already displayed signs of gender non-conformity at that point, according to V.S., although the father denied having noticed anything. His contact, however, with the boy was limited over the following years.

The boy asked his mother to call him by a female name and indicated a preference to wear girl's clothing. V.S., who did some research on transsexuality and concluded that her son was transsexual, complied with his requests. As well, she took him to an adult transsexual support group, began researching the appropriate age to provide hormone treatments and gender reassignment surgery, and moved the family to a different town where she could register her son in school as a girl.

It was the move and school registration that set K.S. in motion. He strongly opposed the idea that his son might be transsexual, arguing that the boy was too young to reach such a conclusion. He petitioned the court to gain residential custody of both boys, noting their close fraternal bonding as reason to keep them together.


This article is incomplete. The full article can be viewed here.

Do you think that this child is being well-served by the court system and the child's father?

I, for one, do not. I question the validity of removing him from his mother's care when she is clearly trying to help him, without proper proof that it is bad for him.

Yes, she did make an error, if you ask me, in not consulting with an expert in gender identity prior to enrolling him in school as a girl. However, many support groups have a therapist attached. Surely the therapist would not have let a young child go to an adult therapy group for transgendered people if there was absolutely nothing unusual about him.



This quote also disturbed me.

from the article
The trial judge concluded it was premature to label the boy's gender identity, disagreeing with his own appointed neutral expert to some extent.


The judge disagreed with a neutral expert? This doesn't seem right to me, somehow.


Also, as Aino Aillil said, (she quoted the article as well)

Aino
"any harm from changing the boy's custody was significantly outweighed by putting the boy in an environment where his gender non-conformity was not actively encouraged." And why is his gender non-conformity a bad thing?


I'd like to know this as well.

What are they accomplishing by potentially crushing his gender identity?

I have concerns about how he is going to be treated by his father in his father's attempts to "fix" him. What sorts of therapy might he receive?



The court's primary justification for doing this was

The article
In light of the mixed expert testimony and the child's young age, as well as the judge's conclusion that the mother would prove unreliable in complying with the court's order to refrain from encouraging the boy to develop his feminine identity, a change of custody was granted to the father.

V.S. had violated an interim order requiring that the boy not dress or be treated as a girl pending disposition of the case. Suspecting that the mother would defy that order, K.S. instigated surveillance, and presented evidence that during a swimming outing V.S. let the boy wear a bikini and introduced him by the female name he favored.


NOTE THE BOLD. THE CHILD favours this name, apparently. How is it harming this child to let the child be called by the name and treated in the manner THE CHILD chooses?

What is your take?

EDIT (06/23/07): For all of you who say that 12 is too young to "decide what gender you want to be" I would like you to meet two beautiful little girls.

Jazz (Look at part two, as well as part one of this video for information on her) is a 6 year old girl born male who began transition at age 4. She was diagnosed at age 3, if I remember the whole video correctly, possibly the youngest child ever diagnosed.

Riley is 10 years old and attempted to remove her p***s at age 3 with a pair of nail clippers. Her story is also in part 4 of the video. She began transition at 8, if I remember correctly.

Once you know that your body is wrong, no matter how old you are when you realise that it is, you will NEVER forget it, even as a moment.
i don't know.

eep....

umm....

i guess i'm opposed to the ruling.

i mean, it's hard to say without knowing the family in real life.
I can certainly understand concerns about how young the boy is. However, he ought to be evaluated by a therapist and not have the possibility that he's transgendered ruled out. And I get the feeling that's ultimately what will happen, unfortunately.
TheSalaminizer
I can certainly understand concerns about how young the boy is. However, he ought to be evaluated by a therapist and not have the possibility that he's transgendered ruled out. And I get the feeling that's ultimately what will happen, unfortunately.
That the possibility that he is transgendered will be dismissed? Yes. I fear that as well.
Taineyah
The judge disagreed with a neutral expert? This doesn't seem right to me, somehow.


Well, you're disagreeing with a judge.

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This is disgusting and depressing. I would say it's a matter of ignorance, that the judge simply doesn't know what he's talking about -- except he heard the opinion of an expert and disagreed with it. That indicates to me that he's at least somewhat prejudiced.

The mother probably should have consulted a therapist, but as you point out, many support groups have therapists. And honestly, it seemed to be making the kid happy, which implies that it's what he felt he wanted.

Also, most, if not all, transgendered people report feeling like the opposite gender very, very early on.

This poor kid.
Roddy Piper
Taineyah
The judge disagreed with a neutral expert? This doesn't seem right to me, somehow.


Well, you're disagreeing with a judge.
Because judges are always right.

Especially the ones that contradict expert witnesses.

And the ones that cry during trials and go on talk shows.

Yep.

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Roddy Piper
Taineyah
The judge disagreed with a neutral expert? This doesn't seem right to me, somehow.


Well, you're disagreeing with a judge.
The judge is not an expert in the field in which the OP is disagreeing with him.
sure, i'm for homosexuality and transgenderness even though i'm straight. but i don't think that the mother should have gone to such extremes at a young age. 12 is much to young for transgender surgery, and though he believes he is transexual now, i don't think that he is old enough to decide that he IS in fact. they should let him dress however he pleases, see if it's just a phase, by waiting until he was 18. then he should have made his own decision at that age.

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manlywolf
sure, i'm for homosexuality and transgenderness even though i'm straight. but i don't think that the mother should have gone to such extremes at a young age. 12 is much to young for transgender surgery, and though he believes he is transexual now, i don't think that he is old enough to decide that he IS in fact. they should let him dress however he pleases, see if it's just a phase, by waiting until he was 18. then he should have made his own decision at that age.
It says only that the mother researched the appropriate age to start gender-reassignment procedures, not that she'd gone ahead and started already. I don't imagine that she had any plans of starting him on treatment any time soon.
Roddy Piper
Taineyah
The judge disagreed with a neutral expert? This doesn't seem right to me, somehow.


Well, you're disagreeing with a judge.


The judge is not an expert. That is WHY the judge pulled in a neutral expert to evaluate the child.
On the one hand, I think it's terrible that this boy is going to be suppressed.

But, on the other hand, I think it would be best for him to wait until he is 18 to make a decision about surgery. If all they were doing was research and going to support groups, however, there's nothing wrong with that.

But this is still really terrible. The poor kid.
manlywolf
sure, i'm for homosexuality and transgenderness even though i'm straight. but i don't think that the mother should have gone to such extremes at a young age. 12 is much to young for transgender surgery, and though he believes he is transexual now, i don't think that he is old enough to decide that he IS in fact. they should let him dress however he pleases, see if it's just a phase, by waiting until he was 18. then he should have made his own decision at that age.


If a boy waits till he is 18, most of the irreversable changes that testosterone enacts will have already occured.

12 is too young for surgery, but not too young to suppress/delay puberty or start her down the path.
At least let an accredited therapist talk with the kid.
Xal
manlywolf
sure, i'm for homosexuality and transgenderness even though i'm straight. but i don't think that the mother should have gone to such extremes at a young age. 12 is much to young for transgender surgery, and though he believes he is transexual now, i don't think that he is old enough to decide that he IS in fact. they should let him dress however he pleases, see if it's just a phase, by waiting until he was 18. then he should have made his own decision at that age.


If a boy waits till he is 18, most of the irreversable changes that testosterone enacts will have already occured.

That's a good point... Jeeze, this is complicated.
Nardaviel
manlywolf
sure, i'm for homosexuality and transgenderness even though i'm straight. but i don't think that the mother should have gone to such extremes at a young age. 12 is much to young for transgender surgery, and though he believes he is transexual now, i don't think that he is old enough to decide that he IS in fact. they should let him dress however he pleases, see if it's just a phase, by waiting until he was 18. then he should have made his own decision at that age.
It says only that the mother researched the appropriate age to start gender-reassignment procedures, not that she'd gone ahead and started already. I don't imagine that she had any plans of starting him on treatment any time soon.
well then, i think the same sort of action should have been taken, or not taken, on the case of enrolling him/her as a girl in school.

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