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Part 1

First of all, this thread has nothing to do with the attention getting Micheal Moore. So if you start quoting his movie, I suggest you leave immediately. His movie doesn't even SCRATCH the surface of the Truth.

Second of all, let's consider what I am about to say a work of pure fiction. I am not asking you to believe what I have to say. Most of you aren't, and you aren't obligated to. You can love Bush or Kerry or whomever you are spoon-fed to love. I am not telling you what you should think - merely giving you alternatives to what you think you know.

First off, 9/11 has nothing to do with Iraq. I should put that right up front. Iraq was never a threat to America. There are no missles that Iraq had or could have possessed that could ever reach America. If they did have such weapons, they were possibly given to Iraq by Donald Rumsfeld in 1984, when he was cavorting with Saddam, shaking his hand, and so forth.

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We made Saddam who he was today (or at least who he was until the Blitzkrieg, I mean Shock-and-Awe campaign). We wanted him to fight with Iran. Just as we gave Afghanistan the Mujahdinn - "freedom fighters" who fought against Russia, then called the Soviet Union, for us. These must have seemed like very good ideas at the time. We gave Saddam WMD. Which he then used against his own people, of course, instead of Iran.

We are told that we are 'fighting a war on terrorism' here in America. This seems to me like the endless wars that Orwell theorised about in his dystopian book, 1984. How's that for Irony? Such a dystopia was being planned in Iraq in that year, with the shake of a hand. But, like I said, Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. It's just a diversion tactic, a continuance of the 'war on terror' that is neither necessary or even winnable, not when OUR government can manufacture more and more terrorists by doing what they do to the Middle East.

What about 9/11, though? I'm sure you were watching the spectacle that day. It caught your eyes! You were told that it was an act of War on your television before the bombs planted under the Towers even brought them crashing down into Manhattan, pulverizing thousands of people inside. Others compared it to Pearl Harbor. But had you been watching your television sets a few days before, you would have seen the actions of our country in the UN Durban racism council. Had you been watching a few days after, you might have seen Bush Sr. talking in front of a few hundred people on C-SPAN at an event held by Lodestar Corporation. Had you been watching the sky, yes, hundreds of bin Ladens were leaving the country, before al-Qaida was even blamed for the whole tragic event.

I know what you're thinking. The events of 9/11 were planned well in advance, they had to have been. And they were. But not by who you might think. You see, the CIA was responsible for training the people who founded al-Qaida, specifically, a Mr. Tim Osman. This man was allowed access into our country, to our secrets, and trained by our military. Just as the Sniper John Muhammad was, until he went rogue and started sniping, leaving tarot card clues... Of course, the moniker Osman was an alias. They were training Osama bin Laden. HERE. In America.

Of course, this was just to have him fight against the Soviet Union, and defend the poppy rich land of Afghanistan. So, it can hardly be helped. We treated him and his friends as heroes. But we trained the modern day terrorist. How else could we 'find' their training videos? We made them.

The only reason we haven't found mr. Osman is because he is our agent. 9/11 was pinned on him, sure. But what about the Durban Racism Council that the UN held? This was a mere 3 days before 9/11, when no one was looking. America supported Israel in this little venture. Palestinians accused Israel of Zionism, which means that Israel thinks it can kill Palestinians to protect its Promised Land. America sided with Israel and pulled out of this Council. America, pulling out of a council on Racism? Hmmm.

Days after 9/11, on the 13th, Bush Sr. was at a little banquet held by Lodestar Corporation. They make computer products for the energy/oil industry. http://www.lodestarcorp.com/eng/index.asp...

I'm not done with this report... but tell me what you think so far.
ohh but iraq does have something to do with 9/11, the fact is we went into afganhistan and then we decided that maybe since we took out afganhistan and are making it a better place that we could make iraq a better place so we invaded, also we apperantly had intelegence that iraq had WMDs which gave us another reason to invade, we also never finished the job in the first gulf war, these reasons may seem invalid, and i dont agree with them all but the fact is we went there, we removed a dictator and we made iraq better than it was so now in the long run i think it was a good thing
I have no trouble believing that 9/11 was carried out solely by al Qaida hijackers whose plan slipped through US intelligence. You can't catch 'em all.


I just can't see most levels of the US gov't being capable of carrying out such a huge conspiracy and then managing to keep it completely quiet.
pimpkilla
ohh but iraq does have something to do with 9/11, the fact is we went into afganhistan and then we decided that maybe since we took out afganhistan and are making it a better place that we could make iraq a better place so we invaded, also we apperantly had intelegence that iraq had WMDs which gave us another reason to invade, we also never finished the job in the first gulf war, these reasons may seem invalid, and i dont agree with them all but the fact is we went there, we removed a dictator and we made iraq better than it was so now in the long run i think it was a good thing


the link between Afghanistan, Iraq, and 9/11 is that we created all three of these threats ourselves. This is why we don't want international involvement in Iraq. They might find the weapons WE gave Iraq and get p.o.'d.

The first Gulf War was fun, with all the radioactive bullets, Gulf War Syndrome, the people who can't sleep at night anymore, missing limbs, blown up by their own friends. Those were great effects of an unfinished war. We never even WENT INTO Iraq, groundwise. We flew over it. So, we never even started such a campaign.

You think it's about 'freeing the people' and 'removing the evil dictator'. Who will free America?
Gaheris
I have no trouble believing that 9/11 was carried out solely by al Qaida hijackers whose plan slipped through US intelligence. You can't catch 'em all.


Not when they are working for you, you don't catch them all. You let them slip though and do their work, especially when it benefits your future Homeland Security department's funding. The Nazi's had a Homeland Security department...

Quote:

I just can't see most levels of the US gov't being capable of carrying out such a huge conspiracy and then managing to keep it completely quiet.


They are called Intelligence Agencies for a reason.
Well, first off, it sounds like you're just pulling this all out of your butt. I mean, the "Osman" thing and for some reason this is linked to a UN council on racism? Buncha horse hockey. What actual evidence do you have to support this alternate version of reality?
Part 2

Let us look at President Bush. He is not the head of the vast conspiracy you think I am describing. He's more like a pimple on that head. But he has his part in the story. His father, and his grandfather were all members of the elitist 'fraternity' at the yet-more-elitist Yale called the Skull and Bones society. There are 3 movies called "The Skulls" - quite fictional because they would never recruit the people they do in the movies, but this society does exist, and their values are quite the same.

George W. was born in New Haven, Connecticut. Yale is based in New Haven, Connecticut. Hmmm. So you could say he was "Born to be a Skull." His presidential biography says "He received a bachelor's degree from Yale University in 1968" - in history. Then, of course, his father's bio , George H.W. Bush at whitehouse.gov says that "At Yale University he excelled both in sports and in his studies; he was captain of the baseball team and a member of Phi Beta Kappa. After graduation Bush embarked on a career in the oil industry of West Texas" Hmmm. Thus his connection to the Lodestar Corporation. After being the president of the U.S., he was offered jobs back in the oil industries. But don't think I am biased: Bill Clinton also "received a law degree from Yale University in 1973, and entered politics in Arkansas" - although he is not reported to be a Skull and Bonesman.

But interestingly, Bush Sr.'s bio mentions Prescott Bush, H.W.'s father... But it doesn't mention Averell Harriman, the Union Banking Corporation, or Prescott Bush's involvement in money laundering for the Nazi's, while he worked for the said person and company. more here. Oh well. You don't get told everything by official sources. So who can you trust? You can't trust people who tell rumors, you need hard, solid evidence, right?

Enough about Bush's lineage, however. How many of you know who the Skull and Bones Society are? Truthfully?

Come on, I'd like some guesses here! Let's test your knowledge!
Kid Nasty
Well, first off, it sounds like you're just pulling this all out of your butt. I mean, the "Osman" thing and for some reason this is linked to a UN council on racism? Buncha horse hockey. What actual evidence do you have to support this alternate version of reality?


you are linking them together, not me, not yet anyway. I am merely presenting evidence, much like a lawyer would. I will put them all together at the end, if you would be patient.

But I will turn it around on you: What do YOU think it means?

Osman is Osama bin Laden, trained by America. This is common knowledge. He was a big hero for America/Afghanistan. But now he is the bad guy.

Secondly, the Racism council could have been used as an EXCUSE for the events of 9/11, but everyone forgot about it anyway, so it never came up. But it also shows how terrible our foriegn policy has been. How many other treaties and agreements have we broken and abandoned - and WHY?
oh, and read this lovely document.

Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

just to get you started.
~reads first two parts of the thread~ Yeah I can believe it. A consirecy, is not that hard to cover up, depending on whom you allow to know what.
If one or two people are aware of it, and no one else, it is pretty easy. This is not a governmet wide deal, just 10-15 people.
It is also a well proven fact osama was on CIA payroll for 15 some odd years. We trained him and funded his war agaisnt a crippled and dieing USSR, and that is a well documented fact. It has even been admitted in the past. It is also a well documented, proven and admitted fact we gave weapons to hussian, in order to attack Iran.
Quote:
It is also a well proven fact osama was on CIA payroll for 15 some odd years. We trained him and funded his war agaisnt a crippled and dieing USSR, and that is a well documented fact. It has even been admitted in the past
You make my head hurt... but if you have sources id love to see them.

Osama, went to afghanistan to join the Mujahadeen. The CIA went to Afghanistan to show the Mujahadeen how to shoot down Spetsnadz helicopters and clue the Afghans in on a little tactic, that being "dont fight them head on". Our buddy Osama went there, using the resources of his family, and did what he knew best.

CONSTRUCTION!

Osama Bin Laden was rasied and worked as a building contractor. He dug tunnels for the Mujahadeen, and helped clear rubble and rebuild. He didnt go to fight, hes a prissy Saudi rich kid. The CIA didnt go there to recruit anybody or pay them, we just told them how to fight the soviets.
SummerPage
oh, and read this lovely document.

Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

just to get you started.
The classification marking is wrong, no way in hell this thing was a real classified document.
Quote:
Tom Carew, a former British SAS soldier who secretly fought for the mujaheddin told the August 13, 2000, British Observer, “The Americans were keen to teach the Afghans the techniques of urban terrorism — car bombing and so on — so that they could strike at the Russians in major towns ... Many of them are now using their knowledge and expertise to wage war on everything they hate.”

Al Qaeda (the Base), bin Laden's organisation, was established in 1987-88 to run the camps and other business enterprises. It is a tightly-run capitalist holding company — albeit one that integrates the operations of a mercenary force and related logistical services with “legitimate” business operations.

Bin Laden has simply continued to do the job he was asked to do in Afghanistan during the 1980s — fund, feed and train mercenaries. All that has changed is his primary customer. Then it was the ISI and, behind the scenes, the CIA. Today, his services are utilised primarily by the reactionary Taliban regime.

Bin Laden only became a “terrorist” in US eyes when he fell out with the Saudi royal family over its decision to allow more than 540,000 US troops to be stationed on Saudi soil following Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.


Quote:
"Excerpt from, How the CIA created Osama bin Laden"
BY NORM DIXON

Assimilated Businesswoman

Oh dear god, not another one of these threads.

Iraq was breaking several UN rules. (UN = teh greatness!! They can never be wrong, remember! We should always listen to teh UN!!) ... they were warned for months to let inspectors come in, and to comply with rules. They did not. They had more then enough time to hide their WMD. And we found some anyway. Iraq had scientists working on WMD. They were hid. Saddam was torturing most of his country. I know you don't want to bust your a** to save other people, but that doesn't mean the rest of this country wanted to just sit back. The war wasn't for the oil, or else we would have had it by now, or a long time ago, back with the first Bush.

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Some times, during wars, countries that don't like each other very much have to get along. *GASP* We can't be enemies with everyone now, just because SOMEDAY they might turn around and bomb us. We have to get along.

I say, I see the hidden point of your article: that we should just close the American borders and kick out everyone that's not white, smart, born in America, have no ties to anything, and some other prerequisites. And kick out the liberal leaders who're making all kinds of loophole rules and crap, and letting racsist (usually black or middle-eastern) people get in places of power and teaching others to hate white/christian/american people, and letting foreigners just come in and get military bombing training. Bloody Brilliant. wink

Beloved Capitalist

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SummerPage
Gaheris
I have no trouble believing that 9/11 was carried out solely by al Qaida hijackers whose plan slipped through US intelligence. You can't catch 'em all.


Not when they are working for you, you don't catch them all. You let them slip though and do their work, especially when it benefits your future Homeland Security department's funding. The Nazi's had a Homeland Security department...


The Nazis also had highways. I suppose those also are a sign of a bad government?

Seriously, just because the Third Reich cared about national security doesn't make national security a bad thing. The Third Reich also had pharmeceutical companies ("Bayer" ring a bell, anybody?). So does the US. Oh no.

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