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Marxism is a philosophy, it is not merely a theory of economics or sociology or history- all fields in which its impact has been great Marx and Engel’s believed they had discovered nothing less than the laws of motion and of development of the universe, laws of animate and inanimate nature. The key to their philosophy is the concept of dialectical materialism. The materialistic aspect of this concept holds essentially that the world of are senses has an objective reality and is the sole reality. This is supplemented by the notion that all real phenomena in the universe change according to the tripartite dialectical pattern of thesis-antithesis-synthesis. From this materialist view flows the Marxist rejection of all forms of religion. The dialectical pattern is perhaps best exemplified by Marx’s view of the class struggle in capitalist society as the mechanism through which a thesis and antithesis (capitalists and workers) interact to form a synthesis in form of eventual socialism. Historical materialism, Marxist economic theory, and the like are essentially the applications of dialectical materialism to different areas of human experience and activity. And it is was this philosophical claim to the discovery of the laws of history that caused Marx and Engel’s to label their economic doctrine “scientific socialism” as against the allegedly “utopian socialism” of rival radical thinkers of the nineteenth century

To Marx and Engel’s, capitalism was fundamentally an act of robbery. The capitalist paid his worker- whose labour Marx and Engel’s saw as the sole source of exchange-value, just enough to stay alive and raise his child. But the capitalist took from the worker a much greater amount of product, thus compensating himself for what he had paid the worker and growing richer by the amount the worker had produced over the value of what he had received in return. The difference between what the worker produced and what he paid, Marx and Engel’s termed surplus value. In their eyes the capitalists lust for more and more surplus value was insatiable, constituting a drive for ceaseless accumulation of capital, which permits no real stability. From this simple mechanism of “robbery” and increasing capital accumulation, Marx and Engel’s drew far-reaching conclusions. They saw in the sweep of history capitalists growing richer and fewer, while the misery of the working class increased. This increasing polarization of society into small clique of capitalists and a great mass of miserable exploited workers would continue, Marx and Engel’s thought, until the limits of endurance had been reached and the terrible system of exploitation would be destroyed by its victims. (Inevitable revolution) although this has happened in many nations before and failed, it stands to reason by this theory that it will continue to happen and capitalism will inevitably destroy itself.
To a capitalist like myself, communism and socialism are theft. The all pervasive government points a gun at your head and demands, based on how successful you are, your money. If you dare to be wealthy, usually through years of effort and rigorous work, the government takes even more to pay for those who don't put in the same effort or have the same merits. A wealthy doctor deserves to keep all of her money, but in the Soviet Union, doctors were paid next to nothing. In a capitalist economy, nothing prevents an Individual from donating to charities or paying her own income to help others. In a communist or socialist economy, the Individual is forced to comply with taxes and what amounts to slavery.
its well know about 2% of people actaully give to know charitys without a strong political view. further more the only way to elivate yourself in a capitalist regime is to push yourself above other people exploiting them in the process. and your statement of doctors getting paid nothing in soviet russia is unfounded and frankly quite uneducated response. the fact is that the national averge wage was lower and doctors were payed the same as any other job. also soviet russia shows a distorted dictatorship version of communism . nothing along the lines of what lenin had planed
I find it odd that Marx labels work freely given to an employer in exchange for salary "robbery". Robbery is theft with out compensation. The worker is compensated with a salary and whatever benefits the employer provides. The employer gets profit from the work of the employee, and the employee gets a stable job. What's Marx's problem?
you calling a system which is build around the premisis of equality slavery jsut shows your unwillingnes to devote yourself to others and cast aside your greed
daten
you calling a system which is build around the premisis of equality slavery jsut shows your unwillingnes to devote yourself to others and cast aside your greed


Hey, when everybody's equally mistreated, it's still slavery.
Hey, when everybody's equally mistreated, it's still slavery.

no one is more mistreted in any current communist/socialistic state then any current capitalist one. thats just an illusion spun by right wing goverments
daten
Quote:
Hey, when everybody's equally mistreated, it's still slavery.


no one is more mistreted in any current communist/socialistic state then any current capitalist one. thats just an illusion spun by right wing goverments


Millions dead is a right-wing illusion?

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I find it odd that Marx labels work freely given to an employer in exchange for salary "robbery". Robbery is theft with out compensation. The worker is compensated with a salary and whatever benefits the employer provides. The employer gets profit from the work of the employee, and the employee gets a stable job. What's Marx's problem?


I think what the original poster tried to talk about is what Marx called the plusvalue. To summarize what the site says, we could define it as the adquisition [by the capitalist] of a part of the benefits produced by the workers.

This way, during the working time, the proletarian first works to produce the goods that are equivalent to his wage, but then continues working, and this un-paid work is the plusvalue, the only way of earning benefits the capitalists use.

I would still recommend reading the link I have posted, for it will clear lots of doubts and dark spots that are left in the opening post of this thread and well as in this post o'mine.

Have fun with it (if that's ever possible gonk ).
daten
its well know about 2% of people actaully give to know charitys without a strong political view. further more the only way to elivate yourself in a capitalist regime is to push yourself above other people exploiting them in the process. and your statement of doctors getting paid nothing in soviet russia is unfounded and frankly quite uneducated response. the fact is that the national averge wage was lower and doctors were payed the same as any other job. also soviet russia shows a distorted dictatorship version of communism . nothing along the lines of what lenin had planed


I don't have time right now to reply to your first post, but a statement caught me in this one:

Doctors paid the same? No wonder they'll jsut get crappier by the year. DO you know how much schooling doctors have to go through? Not only that but to be paid the same as a farmer must also hurt just as much. I know if I went through 11 years of extra schooling I wouldn't want the government paying me, nor would I want to be paid the same 'wage' as everyone else. Don't think many would, either.
My view on Marxism and Communism and such is that while it's pretty neat and sexy in theory, it becomes corrupt in practice because it's in human nature to want to earn more than the next guy, and the system breaks down.
Godless Kitten
To a capitalist like myself, communism and socialism are theft. The all pervasive government points a gun at your head and demands, based on how successful you are, your money. If you dare to be wealthy, usually through years of effort and rigorous work, the government takes even more to pay for those who don't put in the same effort or have the same merits. A wealthy doctor deserves to keep all of her money, but in the Soviet Union, doctors were paid next to nothing. In a capitalist economy, nothing prevents an Individual from donating to charities or paying her own income to help others. In a communist or socialist economy, the Individual is forced to comply with taxes and what amounts to slavery.


your talking about stalinism for pointing guns on the ppl .... socialsim has an open market with private and government owned coperations
Jessalyn
daten
its well know about 2% of people actaully give to know charitys without a strong political view. further more the only way to elivate yourself in a capitalist regime is to push yourself above other people exploiting them in the process. and your statement of doctors getting paid nothing in soviet russia is unfounded and frankly quite uneducated response. the fact is that the national averge wage was lower and doctors were payed the same as any other job. also soviet russia shows a distorted dictatorship version of communism . nothing along the lines of what lenin had planed


I don't have time right now to reply to your first post, but a statement caught me in this one:

Doctors paid the same? No wonder they'll jsut get crappier by the year. DO you know how much schooling doctors have to go through? Not only that but to be paid the same as a farmer must also hurt just as much. I know if I went through 11 years of extra schooling I wouldn't want the government paying me, nor would I want to be paid the same 'wage' as everyone else. Don't think many would, either.


hence why its a theory... its a guide... stare

well communist government yes even stalinism... pays for your college education.... but in Stalinism... they choose.. not u
Alter Julia
My view on Marxism and Communism and such is that while it's pretty neat and sexy in theory, it becomes corrupt in practice because it's in human nature to want to earn more than the next guy, and the system breaks down.


I totally agree. The problem with communism is that it never spurs productivity. The surpluses of capitalism are created because their is an incentive to better yourself so therefore you work harder and create more product. In communism, it doesnt matter how much you work because no matter how much effort you put in, you still make as much as everyone else. It is brilliant if you dont add in human nature. It is rather hard for me to believe communism will be successful anywhere because of this. I mean keep in mind that the Marxist ideas have been around for 150 years and the longest surviving "communist" country only lasted for 70 years. Also, after many countries succumbing to communist revolutions, how many are still around? I can only think of North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam and maybe Myanmar (or Cambodia or whatever it is called nowadays). These countries seem to be in disarray as they seek foreign aid to help keep their governments afloat. I believe the history of communists countries shows how infeasible this government is, though it could be argued that these communist countries did not hold true to Marxist ideas. Marx's theories on capitalism ring true in some ways but I just cant condemn any society where you can better yourself by working hard. Maybe if the people of capitalist societies start working together for a common good they can set a standard for such societies in the future.
You people are so lost. Stalin corrupted your views. True communism is without government, the people are the government. Why do you think the proletariat must throw the current government? It is for worker rule. That is the basis of communism. People in this system work towards something their whole lives. When you are only like 8 years old, you pick what you want to be. From then on, you are specifically trained in that skill by people who have done it their whole lives. A doctor will train no longer than a cab driver. Everything in communism leads to the whole society working as a whole, without a leader. It's like you start college in grade 3. Brilliant system, purely brilliant. Did you guys know that Lenin actually eliminated money for a while? Marx was a genius. Stalin destroyed it.

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