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Our society is filled with pointing the finger at someone else. Even as children, we were taught through our expiriences that, in order to avoid pain and punishment, shifting the blame to someone else was required.

Mom: "Who broke my vase?!"
Child: "Tommy did!" >points at younger brother<

You would think that we would grow out of our childish antics. However, this is not the case. Even in today's society, adults of all backgrounds and levels of power play the blame game.


"Well, homosexuals ruin the sanctity of marraige!"
"Video games are the cause of child violence!"
"Rap and punk and heavy metal are Satanic, and turning our children away from God!"

stare

Wow. Can I just say that? Wow.

In the same context of stereotypes, people follow others and blame scapegoats blindly, with no logic whatsoever.

Those "Godly" people, blaming homosexuals for ruining good Christian marraige? Why aren't they yelling about atheists getting married? Or divorce? What happened to "till death do we part"? The Catholics are the only ones that got it right. "You aren't ALLOWED to divorce! No! You screwed up, and you ain't gettin' out of it!" Besides. Marraige is NOT a Christian thing. Christianity is about 2000 years old. The Jews have had marraige, the Sumerians had marraige. It ain't your jurisdiction.

Video games cause violence? Puh-leaze. Violence is everywhere. For God's sake, what about the movies? I mean, come on! Some of us realize that fake is fake. Just because I play Halo does not mean I'm going to go on rampage, sniping everyone. Tim Buckley, creator of webcomic Ctrl+Alt+Del, was interviewed by CBS concerning video games leading to violence.

Interview
Last week, we had a Q&A with Jack Thompson, a lawyer and video game regulation advocate.

Now we get another take on the issue, a viewpoint of those heard far less often: gamers and those who are actually members of video game culture.

This week's Q&A is with Tim Buckley of Ctrl+Alt+Del who shares what he, not just as a gamer but someone ingrained in gaming life, thinks about violence in gaming.

There will be more from gamers, parents and readers next week with Scott Ramsoomair of VG Cats, Claude Errera of Halo.Bungie.org and Jeff McAllister, site director of PlanetDoom.

What constitutes violence in video games?

The same things that constitute violence in real life constitute violence in video games. Blood and gore, for instance, is just as much violence in a video game as it is in real life. However there is a psychological difference with video games, in knowing that, just as in movies, what is happening on the screen is not real, and is stylized and even exaggerated.

What percentage of all games made would you say are violent, based upon your previous definition of violence in video games?

I would say that easily at least half of all video games could be classified to contain some sort of violence. Even the original Mario game features Mario stomping on the head of goombas. I'm sure that, while not bloody or gory, could be construed as a form of violence.

How many hate or violent crimes would you say are linked to or directly related to violence in video games?

Very, very few. I think it may seem like more just because the ones that are in any way related to a video game get so much publicity, it gives us the impression that it's a constant issue, an epidemic even.

Does age or sex play a factor in violent, aggressive behavior?

I'm sure that males are more prone to aggression than females, and younger people may not have the life experience necessary to properly differentiate between right and wrong. But this is the case with everything growing up. Nobody is born knowing right from wrong. That is something that is taught. Parents either teach it to their kids the right way, or ignore their kids and let television and video games do it for them.

Is there a correlation between playing violent video games and acting in a violent manner?

I don't believe so. I think that if someone plays a video game, and then goes out and harms another human being, or themselves because of what they just saw in the video game, they were screwed up in the head long before they got their hands on a controller. In my profession I have met thousands and thousands of gamers, all of whom have played the same type of violent video games that I have, and we've managed not to kill each other.

Is gaming escapism?

Gaming absolutely is escapism, in the exact same way that a book is. It allows you to be someone else, to go on adventures and experiences that you would never be able to do on your own, and to do some from the comfort and safety of your own home. And I also feel that it is a healthy way to relieve some natural stress and aggression, in the same way a punching bag would be. If you had a bad day at work, better to come home and let loose in a video game than to let loose on your friends and relatives.

Do you think the interactivity of game violence makes it different than violence on television, which is passive?

I think that violence is violence, and that if someone doesn't have the capacity to differentiate between real life and fiction, that they have a problem that precedes their exposure to violence in the media.

Different mediums, as they've come along, have had their share of controversy. From pulp horror, graphic novels, to movies, music and television; is this part of a cycle?

It most certainly is part of the cycle. People will find any reason they can get their hands on to shift possible blame off of themselves.

Is the self-imposed rating system for video games enough? Is the ESRB working? What is the relevance of a rating system for video games if the powers that be will black-list certain games because of their graphic content?

As with any rating system, it's only as good as the people who enforce it. There is no "magic system" that will automatically keep mature games out of the hands of kids. If we put an "Adults Only" tag on a video game, but then the parent still goes out and buys it for their child, or the store clerk still sells it to a minor, nobody turns and yells at the parent, or fires the store clerk. That same parent will even turn around and attack the video game companies for putting out a violent game, when it was their own ignorance that placed it into the hands of their child

How does free speech factor in?

I think that free speech should cover video games as well. Quite simply, the free speech amendment states that people have the right to speak their mind, and if someone else doesn't like what they are hearing, they have the right not to listen. So how is it different for video games?

Video game companies have the right to make the games that they feel are entertaining, and if a parent or someone else doesn't want to play it, or doesn't want their kids to have it, they have the simple choice not to buy it. It's really not terribly difficult to keep an eye on what your kid is playing, or doing with their life.

If your kid gets his hands on a game that he shouldn't be playing, you take it away and discipline him. But some parents just can't be bothered with raising their own child. They expect others to simply stop producing things that they feel their child shouldn't be playing, instead of regulating the child's behavior.

Are parents paying attention to what their kids play?

Some do, certainly. Not all of them do. And the ones that don't are the first ones to start crying when they've found out their kid has gotten a hold of a violent video game, or heaven forbid, that they've bought one for their child themselves.

Do you think that video games are similar to sports? There are much-touted statistics that link aggression levels to video game playing, but isn't that precisely what happens in any kind of competition?

The goal of any competition is to win.

We hear stories about football players getting drunk, doing drugs, raping girls at parties, injuring people in bars, etc. But I don't hear anyone suggesting that we ban high school football. Aggression is part of competition sometimes. Most people can separate competitive aggression from using aggression to solve trivial problems. Some people can't, and you'll find these people in any hobby imaginable, not just video games. I'm sure that at one point or another a golfer snapped and beat someone to death with a 7-iron.

Let's ban golf, shall we?

According to the Center for Child Death Review, 1,242 kids were murdered with guns and 174 children died from accidental firearm-related injuries in 2000. Aside from stories that get covered in the news [like Columbine], there are few, if any, actual statistics that show how many children's deaths are directly linked to video games. Do the facts speak for themselves? Or is it just that nobody is really keeping tabs?

I don't think that there are very many deaths that are directly linked to video games. However, in any violent instance that does arise, if there is even a video game system in the ROOM, the media will jump to point out that the violence must be somehow related. Or the parents will, out of reluctance to admit that perhaps it was a lack of attention or shoddy supervision that lead to a tragedy.

Where does the accountability lie? Are parents responsible for their children's behavior? Society?

There will always be a scapegoat.

Comic books, movies, video games, whatever. People will find any reason that they can to make it someone or something else's fault.

I think that bad parenting has a lot to do with it. Parents who don't pay attention to what their child is doing, or can't be bothered with taking some time out of their own lives to keep tabs on their kids. Parents who want television to raise their kids for them. But that's not to say that perfect parenting is the answer either.

It's entirely possible that even in the most loving, attentive family possible, a child could have some sort of learning defect, or other abnormality that wouldn't allow him to properly differentiate reality from fantasy, or right from wrong. There are so many factors that need to be taken into account, but to say that video games are the sole culprit is irresponsible and naive.

And to deny everyone, all of us who do know the difference between video games and reality, when parents could simply moderate their child's video games on a case-by-case basis as they saw fit, is completely ridiculous.


A wonderful sum up of the basic video-game scapegoating. Why do parents let these kids have these video games? Everyone blames the games, but not the people that gave them to them. stare Kinda dumb, huh.

And finally, music. It seems that people believe that the lyrics of one song in one genre means all songs in that genre are like that. There's your first problem. "Norwegian Wood" by The Beatles talks about arson. Well. I thought The Beatles were all about drugs? Wait... drugs? What about "Eight Days a Week"? Come on folks. Let's not bunch it all together. Hell, German Heavy Metal group, Rammstein, talks about marraige in one of their songs.

The other problem is that people think whatever is in the lyrics is some sort of subliminal message telling the kids to shoot, kill, drug up, have sex, whatever. Let me tell you. I've listened to all sorts of drugged up Classic Rock. Never once have I done drugs. Nor will I. I listen to Rap every so often. I do not have this urge to pic up a gun and go through the streets killing people. I've listened to "Stan" by Eminem. I don't think I'm gonna kill myself. One of my favorite songs is "Sleep With Me", I think is what it's called. I found it on an Anime Music Video. I'm not going to go and have sex because of that song.

So, why can't people accept the fact that some people are messed up? That some people kill because they can, not because of some song?

Why can't people realize that they screwed up as a parent? That it isn't some video game's fault?

Why can't people realize that the "sanctity of marraige" is moot at this point anyways? That prejudices don't help their cause?

As for the discussion part? You can try to answer those three questions. Or, just give me some new scapegoats you've seen.

Just remember, when you point a finger at someone, there are three pointing at you.

EDIT: Finally found it. A wonderful exapmle of Video Game Scapegoating.

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fubenkunai
As a note to the "thread regulars," flaming someone like that or tossing out insults left and right is only going to produce warnings and make me delete more posts. I'll warn 'em, but as it's your thread, I thought it only fair to give you a heads-up that they'll be reined in if need be.


A note to the regulars:

Okay. This will be put up on all of my threads, first post, and a new post. fubenkunai has been kind enough to clean up my threads of mess every time I've come to her. We must, in turn, follow the rules in respect and because they are the rules. Just because we believe them to be rude and unintelligent does not give the right for us to respond in kind. In fact, we must all remember to stay on topic, and to try not to spam. From now on, I will be much stricter. I don't want any of my threads being chatterboxed, guys. I still luv you all, but seriously. Let's try to cut it down, shall we?

Thanks, guys.
No resoponsible adult would teach there child to put the blame on someone else? confused

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Hip Hop Star
No resoponsible adult would teach there child to put the blame on someone else? confused


We were more taught through expiriences. I'll edit that.
Hip Hop Star
No resoponsible adult would teach there child to put the blame on someone else? confused


Yet most things are taught by example then just plain taught.
People use scapegoats because they're assholes. That is all you need to know. Just avoid people, and you won't have a problem.
And this, my friends, was how the Nanny State was born. It's simply blaming the scapegoat but trying to get money out of it as well.

Jesus, I hate the Nanny State. I've heard so many reports about people purposefully injuring themselves so they can try and blame someone completely irrelevant, like the milkman or something.

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Maskani
And this, my friends, was how the Nanny State was born. It's simply blaming the scapegoat but trying to get money out of it as well.

Jesus, I hate the Nanny State. I've heard so many reports about people purposefully injuring themselves so they can try and blame someone completely irrelevant, like the milkman or something.


Nanny State? I'm not sure I've heard of this.
I think people just don't to admitt to themselves or anyone else that they are wrong, so naturally they blame it on others. It's the easiest way out.

People just have a hard time being honest and up front with themselves.
Well my guess is that the parents don't want to admit that they 'screwed up' because they want to retain their reputation with society, and that instead of admitting 'Yes, I was a bad parent to my kid' or something, they blame it on something their child(ren) play, listen to, or spend time with in general.

Being an avid gamer myself, just because I play Warcraft doesn't mean I'm going to go put on a full battle suit, yank out a sword and go through the streets on a horse yelling 'Grab a sword and fight the horde!'

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QueenofShaniqwaland
I think people just don't to admitt to themselves or anyone else that they are wrong, so naturally they blame it on others. It's the easiest way out.

People just have a hard time being honest and up front with themselves.


Exactly. They don't want to be honest and take the blame.

"Take the credit, give the blame." The motto of America.
linaloki
"Take the credit, give the blame." The motto of America.


All too true, all too upsetting.
People don't even accurately place the blame. For example, in the Columbine killings, Marilyn Manson was blamed right off the bat. The shooters wore black trench coats, so of of course they listened to Manson, therefore his music was the cause of their violence. Only the Columbine boys didn't just not listen to Manson, they hated his music. There's an example of how stereotyping goes with scapegoating, Loki.

Anyway, it's the parent's responsibility to teach a child right from wrong, fantasy from reality, and not to use television and video games as a babysitter. If a teen doesn't know those differences, it's the parent's fault, and the parents only blame the media because they aren't willing to accept that responsibility themselves, as has been said before.

I know the difference, and I, for one, am more likely to use violent video games as a stress reliever than as an excuse for killing my classmates.

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One.Dead.Duck
Being an avid gamer myself, just because I play Warcraft doesn't mean I'm going to go put on a full battle suit, yank out a sword and go through the streets on a horse yelling 'Grab a sword and fight the horde!'


Hell, I'd do it just to scare the piss out of everyone. xd
linaloki
Our society is filled with pointing the finger at someone else. Even as children, we were taught through our expiriences that, in order to avoid pain and punishment, shifting the blame to someone else was required.

Mom: "Who broke my vase?!"
Child: "Tommy did!" >points at younger brother<

You would think that we would grow out of our childish antics. However, this is not the case. Even in today's society, adults of all backgrounds and levels of power play the blame game.
Hi, Loki. Allow me to do Azu's part in your thread.
Quote:

"Well, homosexuals ruin the sanctity of marraige!"
"Video games are the cause of child violence!"
"Rap and punk and heavy metal are Satanic, and turning our children away from God!"


I'm not sure what fags have to with Marriage, but the other two are flawed.
VideoGames aren't the cuase of all child crimes, but they are a cuase of some of it. As is wrestling and PETA members.

And, "Punk" (It's dead, BTW) did turn me away from God for awhile.
That doesn't mean I listen to Christian Rock (I'm Jewish, like Azu) and preach on streetcorners.
Quote:

Wow. Can I just say that? Wow.

In the same context of stereotypes, people follow others and blame scapegoats blindly, with no logic whatsoever.

Those "Godly" people, blaming homosexuals for ruining good Christian marraige? Why aren't they yelling about atheists getting married? Or divorce? What happened to "till death do we part"? The Catholics are the only ones that got it right. "You aren't ALLOWED to divorce! No! You screwed up, and you ain't gettin' out of it!"


Seriously. Sometimes those catholics get things right. A lot more than those filthy baptists, anyway...

Quote:

Video games cause violence? Puh-leaze. Violence is everywhere. For God's sake, what about the movies? I mean, come on! Some of us realize that fake is fake. Just because I play Halo does not mean I'm going to go on rampage, sniping everyone. Tim Buckley, creator of webcomic Ctrl+Alt+Del, was interviewed by CBS concerning video games leading to violence.


It is a portion of some, but not all.
Quote:

Interview
Last week, we had a Q&A with Jack Thompson, a lawyer and video game regulation advocate.

Now we get another take on the issue, a viewpoint of those heard far less often: gamers and those who are actually members of video game culture.

This week's Q&A is with Tim Buckley of Ctrl+Alt+Del who shares what he, not just as a gamer but someone ingrained in gaming life, thinks about violence in gaming.

There will be more from gamers, parents and readers next week with Scott Ramsoomair of VG Cats, Claude Errera of Halo.Bungie.org and Jeff McAllister, site director of PlanetDoom.

What constitutes violence in video games?

The same things that constitute violence in real life constitute violence in video games. Blood and gore, for instance, is just as much violence in a video game as it is in real life. However there is a psychological difference with video games, in knowing that, just as in movies, what is happening on the screen is not real, and is stylized and even exaggerated.

What percentage of all games made would you say are violent, based upon your previous definition of violence in video games?

I would say that easily at least half of all video games could be classified to contain some sort of violence. Even the original Mario game features Mario stomping on the head of goombas. I'm sure that, while not bloody or gory, could be construed as a form of violence.

How many hate or violent crimes would you say are linked to or directly related to violence in video games?

Very, very few. I think it may seem like more just because the ones that are in any way related to a video game get so much publicity, it gives us the impression that it's a constant issue, an epidemic even.

Does age or sex play a factor in violent, aggressive behavior?

I'm sure that males are more prone to aggression than females, and younger people may not have the life experience necessary to properly differentiate between right and wrong. But this is the case with everything growing up. Nobody is born knowing right from wrong. That is something that is taught. Parents either teach it to their kids the right way, or ignore their kids and let television and video games do it for them.

Is there a correlation between playing violent video games and acting in a violent manner?

I don't believe so. I think that if someone plays a video game, and then goes out and harms another human being, or themselves because of what they just saw in the video game, they were screwed up in the head long before they got their hands on a controller. In my profession I have met thousands and thousands of gamers, all of whom have played the same type of violent video games that I have, and we've managed not to kill each other.

Is gaming escapism?

Gaming absolutely is escapism, in the exact same way that a book is. It allows you to be someone else, to go on adventures and experiences that you would never be able to do on your own, and to do some from the comfort and safety of your own home. And I also feel that it is a healthy way to relieve some natural stress and aggression, in the same way a punching bag would be. If you had a bad day at work, better to come home and let loose in a video game than to let loose on your friends and relatives.

Do you think the interactivity of game violence makes it different than violence on television, which is passive?

I think that violence is violence, and that if someone doesn't have the capacity to differentiate between real life and fiction, that they have a problem that precedes their exposure to violence in the media.

Different mediums, as they've come along, have had their share of controversy. From pulp horror, graphic novels, to movies, music and television; is this part of a cycle?

It most certainly is part of the cycle. People will find any reason they can get their hands on to shift possible blame off of themselves.

Is the self-imposed rating system for video games enough? Is the ESRB working? What is the relevance of a rating system for video games if the powers that be will black-list certain games because of their graphic content?

As with any rating system, it's only as good as the people who enforce it. There is no "magic system" that will automatically keep mature games out of the hands of kids. If we put an "Adults Only" tag on a video game, but then the parent still goes out and buys it for their child, or the store clerk still sells it to a minor, nobody turns and yells at the parent, or fires the store clerk. That same parent will even turn around and attack the video game companies for putting out a violent game, when it was their own ignorance that placed it into the hands of their child

How does free speech factor in?

I think that free speech should cover video games as well. Quite simply, the free speech amendment states that people have the right to speak their mind, and if someone else doesn't like what they are hearing, they have the right not to listen. So how is it different for video games?

Video game companies have the right to make the games that they feel are entertaining, and if a parent or someone else doesn't want to play it, or doesn't want their kids to have it, they have the simple choice not to buy it. It's really not terribly difficult to keep an eye on what your kid is playing, or doing with their life.

If your kid gets his hands on a game that he shouldn't be playing, you take it away and discipline him. But some parents just can't be bothered with raising their own child. They expect others to simply stop producing things that they feel their child shouldn't be playing, instead of regulating the child's behavior.

Are parents paying attention to what their kids play?

Some do, certainly. Not all of them do. And the ones that don't are the first ones to start crying when they've found out their kid has gotten a hold of a violent video game, or heaven forbid, that they've bought one for their child themselves.

Do you think that video games are similar to sports? There are much-touted statistics that link aggression levels to video game playing, but isn't that precisely what happens in any kind of competition?

The goal of any competition is to win.

We hear stories about football players getting drunk, doing drugs, raping girls at parties, injuring people in bars, etc. But I don't hear anyone suggesting that we ban high school football. Aggression is part of competition sometimes. Most people can separate competitive aggression from using aggression to solve trivial problems. Some people can't, and you'll find these people in any hobby imaginable, not just video games. I'm sure that at one point or another a golfer snapped and beat someone to death with a 7-iron.

Let's ban golf, shall we?

According to the Center for Child Death Review, 1,242 kids were murdered with guns and 174 children died from accidental firearm-related injuries in 2000. Aside from stories that get covered in the news [like Columbine], there are few, if any, actual statistics that show how many children's deaths are directly linked to video games. Do the facts speak for themselves? Or is it just that nobody is really keeping tabs?

I don't think that there are very many deaths that are directly linked to video games. However, in any violent instance that does arise, if there is even a video game system in the ROOM, the media will jump to point out that the violence must be somehow related. Or the parents will, out of reluctance to admit that perhaps it was a lack of attention or shoddy supervision that lead to a tragedy.

Where does the accountability lie? Are parents responsible for their children's behavior? Society?

There will always be a scapegoat.

Comic books, movies, video games, whatever. People will find any reason that they can to make it someone or something else's fault.

I think that bad parenting has a lot to do with it. Parents who don't pay attention to what their child is doing, or can't be bothered with taking some time out of their own lives to keep tabs on their kids. Parents who want television to raise their kids for them. But that's not to say that perfect parenting is the answer either.

It's entirely possible that even in the most loving, attentive family possible, a child could have some sort of learning defect, or other abnormality that wouldn't allow him to properly differentiate reality from fantasy, or right from wrong. There are so many factors that need to be taken into account, but to say that video games are the sole culprit is irresponsible and naive.

And to deny everyone, all of us who do know the difference between video games and reality, when parents could simply moderate their child's video games on a case-by-case basis as they saw fit, is completely ridiculous.

I met Buckley at a Convention, and I have a signed CAD book! YAY!

Stupid Azu didn't want to shell out twenty dollars to buy one, and now she kicks herself everytime she sees it on my shelf...
Quote:

A wonderful sum up of the basic video-game scapegoating. Why do parents let these kids have these video games? Everyone blames the games, but not the people that gave them to them. stare Kinda dumb, huh.


Umm..The parents are often blamed, but the blame is transfered to the companies.
Quote:

And finally, music. It seems that people believe that the lyrics of one song in one genre means all songs in that genre are like that. There's your first problem. "Norwegian Wood" by The Beatles talks about arson. Well. I thought The Beatles were all about drugs? Wait... drugs? What about "Eight Days a Week"? Come on folks. Let's not bunch it all together. Hell, German Heavy Metal group, Rammstein, talks about marraige in one of their songs.

Eight days a week is very funny.
The Beatles also had a song about killing everyone in their school, called Maxwell Silverhammer.

Also, Rammstein sucks d**k.
Quote:

The other problem is that people think whatever is in the lyrics is some sort of subliminal message telling the kids to shoot, kill, drug up, have sex, whatever. Let me tell you. I've listened to all sorts of drugged up Classic Rock. Never once have I done drugs. Nor will I. I listen to Rap every so often. I do not have this urge to pic up a gun and go through the streets killing people. I've listened to "Stan" by Eminem. I don't think I'm gonna kill myself. One of my favorite songs is "Sleep With Me", I think is what it's called. I found it on an Anime Music Video. I'm not going to go and have sex because of that song.


Yeah, who needs a reason for sex?
Quote:

So, why can't people accept the fact that some people are messed up? That some people kill because they can, not because of some song?

Psychologically, it goes much deeper than that, and we discussed it for like two weeks. Which is exactly why I'm not reprinting it...
Quote:

Why can't people realize that they screwed up as a parent? That it isn't some video game's fault?

They do realize they ******** up, they just want a little extra spending cash.
Quote:

Why can't people realize that the "sanctity of marraige" is moot at this point anyways? That prejudices don't help their cause?
Sanctity of marriage is an oxymoron.
Quote:

As for the discussion part? You can try to answer those three questions. Or, just give me some new scapegoats you've seen.
Second Hand smoke causing cancer is an especially delicious scapegoat.
Quote:

Just remember, when you point a finger at someone, there are three pointing at you.


Reminds me of an old NoFX song...
Akuma Takidora
linaloki
"Take the credit, give the blame." The motto of America.


All too true, all too upsetting.


screw that. It isn't just America, it's the whole world.

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