OOC - NO U

[Rising Hourglass]

Haha, the feeling's mutual Night. I liked your insights.

Probably doesn't help that I had to watch the American release of 2 first, though. xd It's got no English voice acting and deaf subtitles (*GUN SHOT*, etc.)

This is true. The American Empire's military was regarded as a powerful threat by the end of the series.

SPOILERS: s**t, they were the ones who were going to nuke Dejima in the end and get away with it, since the SLBM's going stratospheric made it untraceable. End spoilers

Also, I've never seen Gasaraki. Is it similar, taste wise?  

[Rising Hourglass]

Tenkai Matsumoto

Powerful -threat- is what pissed me off.

It felt like America was the bad guy, and then they add in little tidbits about Japanese special forces compared to American special forces in a way that...I dunno. I didn't like it.

I mean, sure, it wasn't exactly the same kind of bullshit jingoism that Read or Die movie did, but ehhh...

The American Empire IS pretty ******** up Tenkai, and it's NOT the United States of America nor the Russo-American Alliance

The America in Ghost in the Shell 2nd Gig, and the 3 sects in general, is not the same America that exists today, and has a completely different set of reforms, culture and policy branching off at WW2.

http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/American_Empire

It's got an incredibly seedy history and basically is a power hungry threat. Its' economy is s**t and it's engaged in incredibly violent practices when it was given political leeway. You could argue it had good reason given the fate that befell Post-WW3 USA in general, but given its' underhanded practices and constant resorting to violence, it's an unstable powder keg from the Japanese point of view.  

[Adrinai Telasai]

Hey, new DF version came out yesterday! April 1st release ftw!

Go try it out!  

[Enness Vakar]

HonoRaven

*curls up in Night's lap* you like the bionic woman better than me?

No, she's just a good reason to get distracted. Where did that come from? =P

Rising, it kinda is, and isn't. It has a fairly strong underlying political theme, but not in the same way as SAC really. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasaraki

Tenkai Matsumoto

I think it was the fact that they made America into "Imperial America" that got me miffed in the first place, though. Though it isn't like I can blame the Japanese for feeling that way considering that we kinda dismantled their military.

Or rather, we -are- their military.

That's not necessarily true. Yes, we dismantled their WW2 era military. Though, there wasn't a lot left at the end anyways. The same way Germany's was post WW1 and 2. However, the Japanese have a fairly strong, well trained, Defense force. The only thing we do, is deploy overseas for them. If anything. I'd say they're quite capable of defending their country. And they even have started deploying troops on Peacekeeping missions in Iraq and such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces  

[Rising Hourglass]

Tenkai Matsumoto

I think it was the fact that they made America into "Imperial America" that got me miffed in the first place, though. Though it isn't like I can blame the Japanese for feeling that way considering that we kinda dismantled their military.

Or rather, we -are- their military.

All I'm really getting from this, no offense, is that you're not willing to engross yourself in the plot because you view it as Japan's power fantasy instead of just an alternative science fiction world.

I think that's a pretty shortsighted way to view the plot. You've viewing a world that's been rocked by two additional world wars, to the point where the end result of "America" doesn't resemble anything similar to the country you currently live in. I don't see any reason to hold emotional interest in that, let alone enough to get turned off to the entire series by it, especially when there are factionalized pieces with their own cultures and views.

And the Japanese government in the GitS universe certainly isn't portrayed as anything even slightly resembling a utopia. I wouldn't call it glorified at all.

I'm talking to Fist right now and I think he said it best, it's taking the out of show rationale you perceive as the in-show approach.  

[Enness Vakar]

Well yeah, I suppose they're not. But they do have a fairly powerful standing military. It's just mostly dedicated to a self defense role. And true, I guess they are intertwined, but the only reason I'd see Japan going to war was if they were attacked. Or if North Korea or China started kicking up s**t. Korea being the more likely of the two.  

[The Thunder Tyrant]

China isn't about to start s**t with America or any America-aligned country. That would pretty much mean it forgoes the trillions of dollars we have to it in debt, because there's no way we'd continue to pay them back if they attacked us.

So it'd be like giving us money for free.

North Korea.. I could see, since they officially ended the ceasefire with South Korea a while back, because Il is ******** insane. But (despite my friend Nathan disagreeing with me), I don't believe China will back them, because it'd set China opposite the U.S., and the fact is North Korea, or NK's potential acquisition of South Korea, is not nearly worth what the U.S. and her allies are to China, in terms of trading.  

[Enness Vakar]

Indeed Darth. That's also why China wont touch Taiwan even though they want to, because the US has said firmly for years that if they do, we'll get involved and back Taiwan. I just said China because it's the superpower in the area, and it's close to Japan.

And yeah, they wont support NK for the same reason if they do anything, and I think they know Il is ******** nuts insane and he worries them as well. In fact, I think China has been keeping a bit of a leash on NK, as much as they can.

Also, on the JSDF standing military, they have a fairly strong one numbers wise compared to the rest of the world. Hell, they have a larger one than Canada.  

[The Thunder Tyrant]

Actually, China and Taiwan have been pretty buddy-buddy lately. Started with the break between China and Russia back in the.. 80s, I think, And has really grown recently.

The Chinese Premier made a trip around east Asia and made some strong trading agreements with Taiwan and other nations. Taiwan's economy is an extremely potent force in that area, and I don't think mainland China wants to ******** with them now, just because it'd be so much more profitable to have them as trading partners than a province.

EDIT:: Also, Japan has been phasing out American military bases for the past three years or so.