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Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:01 pm


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16885997/

It's been said before, but I don't understand what the problem is here.

Six black people assaulted a white person. How did it suddenly become the 'Sysem' stepping on 'Blacks'? Were the 6 black people wrongly accused? Wrongly convicted? Was there no evidence to suggest these people commited the crime?

If six white people were wrongly accused and convicted on beating up another white person, would there be any noise about it? If six white people were wrongly accused and convicted of beating up a black person, would anyone be marching on the streets to get those six individuals released? No, everyone marching would probably want to hand down the death sentence on them.

I have nothing against black people, or anyone of any race. I can appreciate what the black people have gone throgh in their history as a people. But honestly this is a little much. My only real bias is against those who either choose to remain ignorant, or those who choose to exploit the ignorance of others. This is getting ridiculous.

And you know what? If anything I said now made it on CNN or whereever I'd be labelled a racist. This is the same thing that happened with OJ Simpson's trial 13 years ago. People took his side simply because people saw BLACK vs WHITE. What happened to MURDERER vs JUSTICE? Victim vs Suspect? INNOCENT vs GUILTY? ugh
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:28 pm


First off I don't think anyone would label you as racist for your opinion.

Ok, moving along, I don't see why these guys should be tried for attempted murder and that is the crux of the issue here. The kid they beat up was released from the hosptial 2 hours after arriving. How is that even close to attempted murder? The kid looked bad, he was pretty battered, but he wasn't close to dying. So I think there is a strong backlash here that is not fair. Have you delved into the history of the actual incident in all of its particulars? Are you familar with the all of the preceding events and the context? The black guy that got the beer bottle broken over his head in 2006 by a white guy; the white guys with the shotgun that was wrested away by some black guys who then got brought up on robbery charges? The climate in Jena is rife with racism both by whites and by blacks, but let's face it, the whites are not being charged as harshly as the blacks.

Umaeril
Captain

Eloquent Inquisitor


Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:07 am


I suppose there's that. The exploitation of it is every where, and yeah, the system doesn't work as well as it should.

Oh wells, thanks for the info and everything though biggrin I guess I really should've done my homework better -_-
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:05 am


Your opinion is valid...and maybe correct! Don't be so quick to believe me or change what you think about it. Argue with me if you want to about it because you have some good points.

Umaeril
Captain

Eloquent Inquisitor


Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:42 pm


But in order to argue I must delve further into facts that support my thesis!

I am probably right that most ppl don't know what's going on and see it only as black vs. white.

But I also stand firm that these six individuals who--by all accounts--have been proven of beating this white team should be punished.

Of course I do not know the facts, that perhaps maybe the sentences levied might be too stiff, I don't know. But I do know that at least one of the six has had a prior criminal record, and that the crime in question is not in dispute.

Per my understanding of the situation, these protestors are protesting FOR the RELEASE of these six people. That's INSANE. They need jail time, they need a criminal record. It might be only for a year or two, but they need to stay behind bars because they do need to be held accountable for their actions. Everyone does. If six people were to beat me up--regardless of whether or not I was in the hospital for only a night--I would hope those six people get caught and serve some time. Maybe not 15 years, but some time.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:19 pm


I think you are in agreement that charges of attempted murder are a bit extreme? I too agree they need some punishment. One of them has been in jail now for....what?...8 or 9 months for this? The others are out on bail.

Also, I do think this is an issue of black vs white. Seems pretty much to be the issue here. This is a place where racial lines are drawn, where white kids sit under one tree and the black are not supposed to go there, where nooses are used to express hatred. Yeah, I think this is black vs white to a great extent.

Umaeril
Captain

Eloquent Inquisitor


Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:07 pm


I must disagree on this one, umar. I believe the race line is being blown out of proportion.

First off, the case of the white teens hanging nooses on trees, and this case is completely unrelated. The DA has already said that there was no law, no legal way, to punish those white teens for what they did. Everyone has their freedom of expression, regardless of how innane, immature, and hurtful they might be. My idea would be to levy some sort of universal law for these specific types of expression. If you're a teen and do something like that, you get expelled and get a record of it; with each subsequent breaking of this law the punishment ramps up until they get jailed for a month or a few months or whatever.

In regards to race, I'm of the firm belief that if you commit a crime you should be punished according to that crime. You agree that they committed a crime and they should be punished, yes? If I knew more of the details of their sentences I would comment on the severity of it.

To me attempted murder is very serious. The simple fact that they even ATTEMPTED it is to me a very clear sign that these kids are, in fact, CAPABLE of killing someone. Just because they failed to kill someone does not make this crime any less serious. I do not believe these kids should be set free at all until their proper and rightful time is served.

Do I agree that their sentencing and the procedures involved in their respective trials should be under scrutiny? Of course. But I do not agree that they should be given a pass under any circumstances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:56 pm


Ethan Dirtch
I must disagree on this one, umar. I believe the race line is being blown out of proportion.

First off, the case of the white teens hanging nooses on trees, and this case is completely unrelated. The DA has already said that there was no law, no legal way, to punish those white teens for what they did. Everyone has their freedom of expression, regardless of how innane, immature, and hurtful they might be. My idea would be to levy some sort of universal law for these specific types of expression. If you're a teen and do something like that, you get expelled and get a record of it; with each subsequent breaking of this law the punishment ramps up until they get jailed for a month or a few months or whatever.

Um...hanging nooses on trees or cars or whatever is a race issue.

Ethan Dirtch
In regards to race, I'm of the firm belief that if you commit a crime you should be punished according to that crime. You agree that they committed a crime and they should be punished, yes? If I knew more of the details of their sentences I would comment on the severity of it.

I do agree that they committed a crime and should be punished.

Ethan Dirtch
To me attempted murder is very serious. The simple fact that they even ATTEMPTED it is to me a very clear sign that these kids are, in fact, CAPABLE of killing someone. Just because they failed to kill someone does not make this crime any less serious. I do not believe these kids should be set free at all until their proper and rightful time is served.

Who said they attempted to kill the kid? Obviously they did not. He was beat up but in no mortal danger.

Ethan Dirtch
Do I agree that their sentencing and the procedures involved in their respective trials should be under scrutiny? Of course. But I do not agree that they should be given a pass under any circumstances.

Where did I ever say that they should not be punished?

Umaeril
Captain

Eloquent Inquisitor


Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:24 pm


hehe, I'm not saying you said they shouldn't be punished. I should've been clear; I meant the protestors.

They're chanting, "Free the Jena 6", or "Free Mychael Bell". Sorries!

As for the nooses, yes they ARE a race issue. But they are not part of THIS case. THIS particular case did NOT involve nooses what so ever.

The nooses were a completely UNRELATED incident. As of this posting, Louisiana does not have a law against the hanging of nooses, so there was no way to prosecute those kids in a court of law.

This case involving the 'Jena 6' did not involve hanging nooses by any of the involved parties.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:59 pm


Ethan Dirtch
hehe, I'm not saying you said they shouldn't be punished. I should've been clear; I meant the protestors.

They're chanting, "Free the Jena 6", or "Free Mychael Bell". Sorries!

As for the nooses, yes they ARE a race issue. But they are not part of THIS case. THIS particular case did NOT involve nooses what so ever.

The nooses were a completely UNRELATED incident. As of this posting, Louisiana does not have a law against the hanging of nooses, so there was no way to prosecute those kids in a court of law.

This case involving the 'Jena 6' did not involve hanging nooses by any of the involved parties.

Oh I see, yeah, I don't know why they are protesting to set them free, they should have some punishment. Now that Bell kid, like I told you, has been in jail a long time. He cannot make bail. So maybe 9 months is enough punishment, I don't know, just pointing it out.

Nooses are a race issue, you do agree. And I grant you the nooses were not associated with the assult on the white kid (which I already knew). However, the nooses are indicative of an ongoing pervasive pattern of hatred-based behavior. In that respect it is all tied together. I maintain that one cannot dissociate the one from the other. To me these events are linked in that it is a step from one to the other in terms of motivations. There is a need here to dissect the incident of interest (the assult on the white guy), to find the WHY. Those nooses were a blatant message, just as the assult was a message. They can be separated, but frankly I think all of the racial hatred and acting out should be lumped together. Anyhow, that is my reasoning.

Umaeril
Captain

Eloquent Inquisitor


Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:45 pm


In regards of treatment, of punishment, and trial, yes, all racially-charged cases should be lumped together.

In regards to how one race-based crime is treated over the other then yes, the DA and all involved parties should be held under a more focused and more intense scrutiny.

But for me, just because in the 'Nooses Case', the involved parties weren't punished (at least not by a court of law, so far as I know), the 'Jena 6' case should be thrown out the window (I'm exaggerating; I don't think it has been thrown out the window).

All in all, I think we can both agree that the system (at least in parts of the world) does not work properly, and there are still large, gaping holes.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:14 pm


Sure, the justice system is skewed there. So are many things. This all boils down to hate-based behavior being condoned in that region. Sad.

Umaeril
Captain

Eloquent Inquisitor


Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:28 pm


It is quite sad, and relates directly to that other thread I had, the one about the six white people beating and raping a black girl.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:02 pm


Kinda, but there was a good dose of mental retardation mixed in with that attack on that girl.

Umaeril
Captain

Eloquent Inquisitor


Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:36 pm


Well, they're all free now...maybe 9 or 10 months is enough. Oh wells.
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The Dire Abode - Here be angst

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