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computers, technology, and nature

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Technology a part of nature?
  Erm.... no!
  Yes! Of course! *dances round computer*
  I'm not entirely sure...
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nanooki

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:37 pm


Well, I've been thinking about it... and I was thinking... things... sweatdrop
Things of greatness! Things... which are based on my own beliefs and are nowhere near factual sweatdrop But anyway!!

There's an energy which flows through everything - people, rocks, plants, animals, the elements... and we are all connected.
So what about technology? Yes, it's man made, but isn't a termite mound artificially created also? (termite-made 3nodding ). Humans are not above nature but a part of it. Technology all follows the natural laws and ways, else it wouldn't work. The plastics are created from natural resources, we mine the metal from the earth, and the electricity used to run it is also a force of nature. Does this mean that technology, far from being an alien seperate part of the world defiling nature, is actually a part of this flow of energy and intrinsically connected to nature and ourselves?

Just something I randomly thought of a while ago and thought I'd share my ponderings!! Whatcha think?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:07 pm


It's a good thought, and works at first glance, but if you think about it, the termites don't hurt the planet making thoes mounds, they use what nature has given them and build on. Humans take what nature has given them, add other things, make all sorts of polution, put everything through processes that hurt the enviorment and distroy things.
A swarm of locusts will come and distroy crops and land for a big area, and hurt things for a bit, sure, but they overpopulate and die out. Humans have figured out how to jam pack people into small spaces (new york exc.) and keep them from spreading desease (shots, meds, waste elemination, exc.) so that we won't die out. Nature intended things like deseases to keep species from being overpopulated because when there are too many of somthing, it kills the planet.
Nature also intended speicies to die out if their food source becomes scarce. Four or five wolf packs are crammed into a park with one herd of deer. Eventuley the wolves kill them all off. What happends? they kill eachother until there are few enough to live without over hunting, or they all die. Man has gotten rid of this problem too. We have farms and cattle ranches that provide our food, so that we can't have this problem unless the farmers stop farming/ranchers stop ranching.
Water gets desesed and kills off animals when there are too many of them. Humans get rid of waste products far away from themselves and ship in water from the mountans. We can even purify water that is questionable.
Humans have gone beyond nature and gotten (mostley) outside her power. Our technology has gone beyond natural and given us most of her power.
A woman cannot have a child naturaly, so we go in and take out an egg, fertalize it with her love's sperm, place it back in her. Anyone ever stop to think that maybe there was a reason she shouldn't have children and pass on her genetic code?
In nature only the strong survive, only the ones that can be the strongest can mate, thus keeping the spicies strong. There are not as many desises becuase an animal gets it, it dies. The end.
Humans on the other hand have come up with vacanations for deseses, cures for some, have compleatly taken out some all together. Because of that people that should have died because of a weakness has lived to cary on there weak genes, therefor making the race weaker. There are more desese in humans than any other animal, and this is why.
I'm not saying that people that get sick should die, I'm just saying that this is how nature is, and we have underminded it's plan.

I love technology, and I realize that it makes everyone's life better and more comfortable, but it still isn't natural. Hell, if it wasn't for technology, I'd be dead... I would have died durring child birth without technology-or at least had broken hips=no food=death in the wild...

Shinys
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nanooki

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:58 am


you do have a point of course, and I completely agree with what you're saying. The way that the human race is using technology maybe isn't natural and defies natural processes for culling the species... but on a more basic level, on a smaller view of the world, I still put forward the idea of machines having a connection with nature and the flow of energy around us. Yes, the processes we use which are aided by technology are prolonging the lives of people who wouldn't normally live, allowing those who's genetics say they can't have children to procreate for example. But looking at a machine on an individual level, I still argue my point mrgreen I should really have stressed machines rather than technoogical advancements. Changing the way nature made things using technology - unnatural. The machines themselves however... I'm not so sure.

heehee, I do love debates!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:29 am


We can also use that same technology to undo the hurt we've done. Solar-powered stuff isn't exactly natural, but it certainly helps to rectify the hurt caused by dependence on fossil fuels, natural gas, etc. We can't unlearn the wheel, so instead of decrying the evils of technology, we should be working to make it better. And I don't know, I don't think humans are quite beyond the scope of nature as we think. There are plenty of things just waiting to kill us off: cancer, AIDS, wars, accidents...

You might want to Google technopaganism. That's been a big influence on my belief system.

Annalixa


Shinys
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:56 pm


Annalixa
We can also use that same technology to undo the hurt we've done. Solar-powered stuff isn't exactly natural, but it certainly helps to rectify the hurt caused by dependence on fossil fuels, natural gas, etc. We can't unlearn the wheel, so instead of decrying the evils of technology, we should be working to make it better.
Agreed on that point. 3nodding
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:23 pm


Annalixa
We can also use that same technology to undo the hurt we've done. Solar-powered stuff isn't exactly natural, but it certainly helps to rectify the hurt caused by dependence on fossil fuels, natural gas, etc. We can't unlearn the wheel, so instead of decrying the evils of technology, we should be working to make it better. And I don't know, I don't think humans are quite beyond the scope of nature as we think. There are plenty of things just waiting to kill us off: cancer, AIDS, wars, accidents...

You might want to Google technopaganism. That's been a big influence on my belief system.

ooh, I didn't even know that technopaganism existed! Really interesting... it's kinda cool how it's such a new thing as well, people are finding their own path through it as there's no real historical background... then again I suppose it's taking the history and traditions of other beliefs and practices then just using them to define this new medium and also using the capabilities of technology to advance them in a slightly different direction. Coolio!
The thing that worries me about technology is we just don't know when to stop. If someone can invent something, then someone somewhere will do it regardless of ethics. With everything that can be used for positive actions, there is always equal possibilities for negative destructive uses.

nanooki

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Annalixa

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:50 am


The way I see it is: pagans of yore worked with what was available. Not only do we have herbs and gems and candles available today, we have computers, television, cell phones...and more! Why should we necessarily exclude those things just because our ancestors didn't have them? There was such a high level of nature orientation because that's what was there, that controlled their very lives. If there was a drought, or if it rained too much, there went your crop and your very livelihood. Nowadays, man (in developed nations, anyway) lives in a largely artificial environment. Now if there's a drought, it won't make you lose your job or your ability to provide for a family. Now we live in fear of unemployment or computers crashing or companies going bankrupt.

An excellent read on the subject of technopaganism (if only tangentially) is the essay "Techgnosis: Magic, Memory, and the Angels of Information," by Erik Davis. It originally appeared the in the book Flame Wars, but you can read it for free on teh intarwebs right here:

http://www.techgnosis.com/infoangels.html

An incredible essay--it really did wonders to change my perspective on things, magically speaking.

Individuals seem to know when to stop. It is the bizarre phenomenon known as society that has no brakes.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:07 pm


Annalixa
The way I see it is: pagans of yore worked with what was available. Not only do we have herbs and gems and candles available today, we have computers, television, cell phones...and more! Why should we necessarily exclude those things just because our ancestors didn't have them? There was such a high level of nature orientation because that's what was there, that controlled their very lives. If there was a drought, or if it rained too much, there went your crop and your very livelihood. Nowadays, man (in developed nations, anyway) lives in a largely artificial environment. Now if there's a drought, it won't make you lose your job or your ability to provide for a family. Now we live in fear of unemployment or computers crashing or companies going bankrupt.
Yes, but it is also a good thing to remember the roots and although we don't grow the food, and depend on nature as much, we also must remember that if there is a bad enough lack of rain, we will go hungry, as the farmers won't be able to grow things... we are not as dependent, but we still are dependant... it's kinda like a seventeen year old living at home with parents... they know how to take care of themselves (sort of) but still lean a bit on parents, even if they do have a job and a car and everything... they still need them, they just aren't as dependent on them as say a new born baby. 3nodding

Shinys
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