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Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:57 pm


Recently I have been paying attention to things like immigration, racism, and reactions from some media concerning them.

First, I will state that I am for immigration. I thoroughly believe that immigration is necessary for the survival and prosperity of any country around the world. What I have a problem with, however, is how some people handle it, especially illegal immigration.

First real issue would be communication barriers. While it is ok for someone foreign to a country to not speak its most common language when he or she is simply visiting, it is a different matter if they are living in said country and still refuse to learn to speak its most common language.

Take for example my experience with Chinese customers here in my store in Canada. While most Chinese people have learned to speak at least basic english, there are still quite a few who do not know a single word of it. Most of the time once they find out I am not Chinese, nor do I know how to speak Chinese, they leave without another word or of course a purchase. However, in rare instances, I have a customer who cannot speak a word of english and still insist on buying something. We go through the hand signals, with the gestures, and we inevitably reach an impasse. It becomes very hard and very frustrating for all parties concerned; for myself, for the customer, and other customers waiting in line.

Of course, I do not promote the idea that everyone in a country should speak only the common languages and nothing else. People are free to speak all the languages they want. But, if I was to run this country, or even just write the basic regulations of immigration, I would add to that the necessity to learn English (or French, depending on what part of Canada you live in). I would tell them that, while English is NOT a prerequisite, they are required to take basic english classes if they wish to live here. These classes will be part of whatever fees they already pay to enter and live here, or as part of the 'Landed Immigrant'/'Permanent Resident'/'Citizenship' programs. It would be wrong for me to impose any real penalties, but perhaps I will add other incentives to learning English/French. Obviously, I speak only of the adult immigrants who come here having completed their education elsewhere but never took an english class. Obviously, if it was a young child, or even someone born here, they would of course take classes already existing that would help with the language barrier.

In regards to Racism, to Nationalistic views, et al, I say there is a very thick line between having constructive, intelligent opinions regarding race, country, how one race handles another and country regulations and the sort; and having an unwarranted hate or disdain for a particular race or all races without the desire to even attempt understanding.

There are those who may come off as aggressive for a particular opinion or regulation, but do not bear any ill-will towards foreigners. They may have a greater concern for citizens rather than immigrants, but only because they wish to protect what benefits they have, and really only wish to make transitions easier on everyone involved, rather than having a system ruined by unregulated and uneducated immigration (i.e. illegal immigration).

There are also those who simply wish to exterminate a race, or to subjugated them simply because they are of a different skin color or of a different culture.

So, there are my thoughts on that subject. You are all welcome to read it and reply; add your comments, your corrections, complaints, etc. Hope this gets the brain juices flowing.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:57 pm


Heh, Nationalism, that's me!

I have complete disdain for a few countries (most notably France). I'm also so goddamn nationalistic it goes beyond awesomification.

I do agree with the learning English bit Ethan, I get Asians coming into my shop who can't speak it either. Does my head in.

SkuIIy


Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:21 pm


Yeah. I mean, I feel embarassed for myself, I feel embarassed for that person, and I feel embarassed for the others who happen to be in the store.

Again, I don't mind people speaking chinese to other chinese people, like their own family, or friends, or any other of their race, and this goes for anyone else from another country, or for anyone else who knows how to speak other languages. That isn't the issue. The issue is, if you're going to live in a country you'd better learn how to speak that country's most common language at the very least. Or, if you refuse to do that, bring with you a friend or a family member who can speak the language for you. It makes life a lot easier for everyone involved.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:12 am


Yes, I agree that people who immigrate to a country should learn to speak the language. My father moved to Thailand and that is his home now. But does he speak Thai? No. He knows "bhat" and some other words but that is it. And he eats American food there. He basically moved to an area with a lot of ex-patriots and they all speak English so there you have it. But still, that is his country, he should have made some effort to speak the language.

Umaeril
Captain

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Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:47 pm


~nodnods~ And I also don't like the idea that just because the area I live in has an excess of chinese people who don't speak english that everyone else who can't speak chinese but speak english should learn to speak chinese for their sake -_- Not that this idea has ever been seriously considered by anyone, but it has been mentioned in passing and/or in jest.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:33 pm


I agree with Ethan.

If you move to France, you learn French.

You move to Germany, you learn German.

You move to Canada, you learn freaking Canadianese! err... I mean Canadian English eh! That's when you run to the LBS to grab a two-four of brewskies before the big sweep on your farmer vision back on the stead eh.

I see this where I work a lot too. I've even had one guy get pissed because I didn't speak the language he wanted to speak. I forced him to use the English he knew because I did not know how to speak Dutch. He moved here from there willingly and he be damned if I'm going to learn a different language to make him happy.

I've had another lady insult me for not knowing how to speak her language. I don't know what the insult was because it was in another language, but the look on her face said she was insulting me.

What got her was my response. I shrugged it off and went on like she didn't say anything negative to me.

But yeah, people in your area should learn to speak English, Ethan. If they won't and an impasse is reached, tell them you don't understand them and can't help them and to find a friend to translate for them. THen help everyone else in the store. No need to make everyone wait in line for an eternity if you can't do anything to help

Zeddicuus

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Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:03 pm


Well, I don't want to come off as a jerk, especially in front of other customers. I've been lucky in that no one has ever really gotten into my face about it; most of them just bow their heads apologetically and move on. Still, I can't help but think they felt just as frustrated as I did.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:00 am


Well, it would be nice if we could all understand each other, but I can't see how they would expect you to know their language Ethan. Unless you look Chinese but I don't see that.

Umaeril
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Zeddicuus

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:26 am


I don't recall ever seeing Ethan, but from what I know he's not Chinese.

Some people just think that way though, that if they go somewhere everyone should speak their language and they they shouldn't speak the local language. It's kinda weird.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:52 pm


Yeah, apparently I look chinese -_- I think I got it from my mom who has some chinese ancestry somewhere...

Regardless, what Jer says is true, too. Random people from other races will come in and start talking in their own language some of the times, or start making hand gestures hoping somehow that can translate properly.

Ethan Dirtch
Crew


Umaeril
Captain

Eloquent Inquisitor

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:43 am


I can say thank you in Korean. I learned it from my bf. He can say thank you in Chinese, Korean and....some other Asian language...Thai I think. But that is the limit of his Asian language knowledge. But it certainly does make the lady at the Korean Asian food store do a double take when this white redheaded guy says, "kam-sa-ham-nida".
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:13 pm


ha! Nice. I actually like other languages, honestly. But oh wells...@_@

Ethan Dirtch
Crew


calypso-maru

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:59 pm


Here in my country (Philippines), almost one in every family from middle to higher class are immigrants in other countries..our government actually required us to learn the universal language which is English, even Spanish at some point! There are even schools who have Nihonggo in their curriculum..

Historically, our country was invaded and ruled by three countries...The Spaniards, Japanese and Americans...thus the implementation of other languages...

And although we did gain our own independence, we retained most of the cultures of these three countries...especially the American culture...And here, everyone seem to like the American culture, from food to fashion, every aspect of our lifestyle was based on the american lifestyle...and it is quite an advantage for those who wanted to look for greener pastures because of the cultural knowledge and language proficiency..
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:47 am


So do you like living there? I know this is off the topic but I am curious.

Umaeril
Captain

Eloquent Inquisitor


Ethan Dirtch
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:06 pm


haha, nice, Calypso! Kamusta ka! biggrin ~is also filipino but lives in Canada!~ I can't really speak tagalog anymore since I was raised here, but I can understand *most* of what people say to me @_@
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The Dire Abode - Here be angst

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