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 Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:53 am
thank you guild team for taking the time to ask US what is it that we would love to see
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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:25 am
__penguin__ I have a suggestion: fix the guild join requests. That glitch is ruining guilds. They had fixed that at one point, is it doing it again? Though it is an extra step...after the first time the glitch happened we started sending PMs to all of our new members. Welcoming them to the guild and pointing out certain threads (like the guild rules and what not) that we thought they needed to check out first. Not only does it let them know that they have been accepted (despite the glitch), but it is a personal touch that encourages them to post and be active in the guild. I know it is has been a long time coming getting the guilds updated, but I am sure that everyone is working hard to get it all fixed. I for one am very happy that they have taken the time to listen to what we have to say and to keep us updated on what's been going on. We just have to be a patient a little longer.
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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:34 pm
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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:17 pm
My name is St._Jimmy, I have been a user of guilds for a VERY longe time, and I have a suggestion that you should bring back the Captains Guild.
The CG, when I first started with guilds, Helped me to learn the basics of guilds, and even more. The CG WAS used as a place to learn about guilds, interact with other guild captains, and get advice. Without the CG my knowledge on guilds would be very, very slim. With as many people who are buying guilds, how much they are used, and HOW they are used, I really DO NOT think it is smart to take away the one place that could HELP in ALL of those categories. The CG was kinde of a welcoming guild for guild captains, saying, "Hello, welcome to the Gaia Guild Network, here you can have the opportunity to LEARN from other captains, ask advice and have a place to feel welcomed. Without the CG, how will people learn about the basics of running a guild, buying/selling a guild, or learning what it truly means to own a guild, by taking away the CG, you are taking away that opportunity for newer guild users to get the info they deserve/need to know.
((I need to go, but I will be on tommorow to finish telling why the CG needs to be braught back, and trust me, its going to be a very longe paper on it.))
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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:29 pm
St._Jimmy My name is St._Jimmy, I have been a user of guilds for a VERY longe time, and I have a suggestion that you should bring back the Captains Guild. The CG, when I first started with guilds, Helped me to learn the basics of guilds, and even more. The CG WAS used as a place to learn about guilds, interact with other guild captains, and get advice. Without the CG my knowledge on guilds would be very, very slim. With as many people who are buying guilds, how much they are used, and HOW they are used, I really DO NOT think it is smart to take away the one place that could HELP in ALL of those categories. The CG was kinde of a welcoming guild for guild captains, saying, "Hello, welcome to the Gaia Guild Network, here you can have the opportunity to LEARN from other captains, ask advice and have a place to feel welcomed. Without the CG, how will people learn about the basics of running a guild, buying/selling a guild, or learning what it truly means to own a guild, by taking away the CG, you are taking away that opportunity for newer guild users to get the info they deserve/need to know. ((I need to go, but I will be on tommorow to finish telling why the CG needs to be braught back, and trust me, its going to be a very longe paper on it.)) Agreed. The CG's deactivation was a massive loss for the GGN community, especially new captains, but I think we can do better than bring it back. ninja I suspect this issue is more likely inside the admins' sphere of influence than the devs', unfortunately.
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:07 pm
WindowOpener St._Jimmy My name is St._Jimmy, I have been a user of guilds for a VERY longe time, and I have a suggestion that you should bring back the Captains Guild. The CG, when I first started with guilds, Helped me to learn the basics of guilds, and even more. The CG WAS used as a place to learn about guilds, interact with other guild captains, and get advice. Without the CG my knowledge on guilds would be very, very slim. With as many people who are buying guilds, how much they are used, and HOW they are used, I really DO NOT think it is smart to take away the one place that could HELP in ALL of those categories. The CG was kinde of a welcoming guild for guild captains, saying, "Hello, welcome to the Gaia Guild Network, here you can have the opportunity to LEARN from other captains, ask advice and have a place to feel welcomed. Without the CG, how will people learn about the basics of running a guild, buying/selling a guild, or learning what it truly means to own a guild, by taking away the CG, you are taking away that opportunity for newer guild users to get the info they deserve/need to know. ((I need to go, but I will be on tommorow to finish telling why the CG needs to be braught back, and trust me, its going to be a very longe paper on it.)) Agreed. The CG's deactivation was a massive loss for the GGN community, especially new captains, but I think we can do better than bring it back. ninja I suspect this issue is more likely inside the admins' sphere of influence than the devs', unfortunately. I believe you right Window, I see where you are going with your idea to do better, but what would stop none guild users from spamming up the place......your idea does involve NO accual CG right?
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:41 pm
St._Jimmy I believe you right Window, I see where you are going with your idea to do better, but what would stop none guild users from spamming up the place......your idea does involve NO accual CG right? Thanks. smile Yes. It depends what you mean by 'spam'. The job of keeping the forum clean would fall to the report system and Gaia mods. The quality of modding would probably be better than it was in the CG with the report system available. ^^ In theory, nothing would stop non-guild users from posting, or at least viewing the posts. This could be a good thing. If non-GGNers post irrelevant stuff, it gets the same spam treatment as always. But they also have the chance to post relevant stuff, ask intelligent questions and get a feel for guilds and the GGN community without becoming a captain first. Many Gaians are already members of at least one guild, so opening up the captains' discussions could help them decide whether captaining is something they want to get involved with. What current captains would lose is our own semi-official private place to hang out and chat with each other - while I thought that was pretty cool, I don't see it happening in a main forum. (We can always start our own guild though - like this one - many forums have guilds started by the regs.) But in return, we get a cleaner place with the potential for more discussion that any interested Gaian can find, learn from and join in easily. It also makes GGN discussion more prominent in Gaia, which is good for its profile. <3
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:05 pm
WindowOpener St._Jimmy I believe you right Window, I see where you are going with your idea to do better, but what would stop none guild users from spamming up the place......your idea does involve NO accual CG right? Thanks. smile Yes. It depends what you mean by 'spam'. The job of keeping the forum clean would fall to the report system and Gaia mods. The quality of modding would probably be better than it was in the CG with the report system available. ^^ In theory, nothing would stop non-guild users from posting, or at least viewing the posts. This could be a good thing. If non-GGNers post irrelevant stuff, it gets the same spam treatment as always. But they also have the chance to post relevant stuff, ask intelligent questions and get a feel for guilds and the GGN community without becoming a captain first. Many Gaians are already members of at least one guild, so opening up the captains' discussions could help them decide whether captaining is something they want to get involved with. What current captains would lose is our own semi-official private place to hang out and chat with each other - while I thought that was pretty cool, I don't see it happening in a main forum. (We can always start our own guild though - like this one - many forums have guilds started by the regs.) But in return, we get a cleaner place with the potential for more discussion that any interested Gaian can find, learn from and join in easily. It also makes GGN discussion more prominent in Gaia, which is good for its profile. <3 But, just how good would the report system accually be, I mean when I left, the RG and guilds forums of gaia were all out of shape, with stuff in the wronge place and all other sort of stuff that I found did NOT belonge there, I remember spending a big majority of my time telling people there topics didnt belonge in that area. Because opening up a public forum for the GGN discussion like you want, it will attract alot of people wandering what it is. While that could be a good thing for the Guilds, it sill bring alot of posts that have nothing to do with the GGN.
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:12 pm
St._Jimmy But, just how good would the report system accually be, I mean when I left, the RG and guilds forums of gaia were all out of shape, with stuff in the wronge place and all other sort of stuff that I found did NOT belonge there, I remember spending a big majority of my time telling people there topics didnt belonge in that area. Because opening up a public forum for the GGN discussion like you want, it will attract alot of people wandering what it is. While that could be a good thing for the Guilds, it sill bring alot of posts that have nothing to do with the GGN. It's a fair point. The moderators assigned there would need to be switched on, no doubt. Repeat threads would need recycling, etc. The report system depends on the users as well, to bring attention to misplaced/repeat/spam threads. All forums require active mods and alert users to stay clean. The CG lacked a report system; a main forum could be more susceptible to spam. Neither is perfect, but I think a main forum would bring more benefits in total than going back to the CG.
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:49 pm
WindowOpener St._Jimmy But, just how good would the report system accually be, I mean when I left, the RG and guilds forums of gaia were all out of shape, with stuff in the wronge place and all other sort of stuff that I found did NOT belonge there, I remember spending a big majority of my time telling people there topics didnt belonge in that area. Because opening up a public forum for the GGN discussion like you want, it will attract alot of people wandering what it is. While that could be a good thing for the Guilds, it sill bring alot of posts that have nothing to do with the GGN. It's a fair point. The moderators assigned there would need to be switched on, no doubt. Repeat threads would need recycling, etc. The report system depends on the users as well, to bring attention to misplaced/repeat/spam threads. All forums require active mods and alert users to stay clean. The CG lacked a report system; a main forum could be more susceptible to spam. Neither is perfect, but I think a main forum would bring more benefits in total than going back to the CG.
There are accually ups and downs to both, as you probably know, when you stop to think about it.
________________________________________________
CG back Pros:
Happier Captains
Less Spamming on stuff none-guild related
No Random people just popping in to say bumpety bump for no apparent reason just to get gold.
Easier to finde certain topics that accually have info regarding to guilds, they wont be clottered in with all the none-guild related stuff.
________________________________________________________
CG back Cons:
Not advertising the GGN as much
No report system
Not really any active mods but a few
Not releasing useful information to the public.
________________________________________________________
Your Idea Pros:
Report system
GGN advertisement
Make other gaians feel like there in the loop
Public getting much usefull information
_____________________________________________________
Your Idea Cons:
continuous "Bring back the CG" threads
More work for the moderators modding it
Cant Keep things on topic easily
Annoying topics that have nothing to do with the GGN
Harder to navigate and finde what you are looking for
Harder to keep users following the rules
________________________________________________________
Im sure there is muh more pros and cons for each, but thats all I could come up with right now off the top of my head. Something else, Would there accually be moderators willing to put forth the time to keep it in order.
I think for the future of the GGN, a public place for GGN Discussion like you want would be the best action, but for short term and present, It would be easier to just bring back the CG.
OR there is a way to do both.....
They could bring back the CG and let it be user run like it used to be, and let the idea you want be gaias responsibility.
I know I would be willing to HELP user run the CG if it came to that, as I know probably Galvatron will be willing to, Radimir would be willing to im sure, so finding the people to do it wouldnt be to hard. Now im not speaking on Galvatrons and Radimirs behalf making the choice for them, but I think they would be willing to HELP user run the CG.
Also, if you JUST baught a guild for the first time, would you want to have to search through clutterd topics trying to finde the info you wanted?
Wouldnt you want your questions being answered by people who accually KNOW the answer, not people who think they do, so they answer even though they never had a guild to begin with, but they 'heard' thats what it was.
I do see where you are going with your idea, but I think it would be easier, and more beneficial to new guild owners to just bring back the CG.
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:11 am
(Sorry; wall of text xP) I really like pros and cons lists! And I agree with most of your points. Your message at the end is also relevant. While I think there were a lot of fundamental problems with how the GGN forums were arranged when the CG was alive, it was better than having only RG. If it's a toss-up between bringing the CG back quickly, or establishing new forums over the course of months and months, then bring back the CG. As you say, it even begs the question, why not both? I'll just repost my suggestion for ease of reference: GGN Discussion - General GGN discussion, including feature suggestionsCaptain / guild leading help and advice threads
Guild service and buy/sell threads
Affiliation and networking threads
Advertising/recruiting threads Naturally, I feel compelled to make changes to your pro/con list in relation to this arrangement... whee On the topic of whether the CG or a forum would receive more spam, I just want to note that the CG was by no means a clean and tidy place most of the time. We did have people pop in to say "bumpety bump" for no apparent reason. It's more elitist than we realise sometimes to think of the requirement of captaincy to be in the CG as a sort of filter. It's hard to predict what the flow of spam would be like in a forum that has never existed before, but even so, misplaced threads are a fact of life. No forum is immune, but in nearly every case it is manageable. Things only get out of hand when you have a forum like "Gaia Contests" intended for discussion about one thing, mistaken by pretty much everyone for something else - I remember this scenario very well, because the misunderstanding was so widespread the report queue was virtually empty while the forum was unrecognisable. I digress... On the topic of making topics easier to find, I believe resources like the stickies in the CG could be arranged intuitively in main forums. The most contentious information is probably the lists of bugs and suggestions - as the GGN becomes (as we hope) less isolated from the main forums it may be expected that bug threads relating to guilds belong in the BR&TS forum, and that suggestions even be moved to Site Feedback. I can see the advantages of both arrangements, but bug reports and GGN suggestions both originated in the CG for DARKNRGY's convenience, and remained there only because there was no momentum generated (by a GGN update) to 'delegate' these topics to the appropriate areas of the wider site. That momentum is not necessarily building just yet, but if we went back to having those topics isolated in their own guild again I don't think it could be seen as a long-term arrangement. On the topic of moderators, I really think the presence of a report system needs to be stressed - personally, I believe it makes a huge difference. While I modded I was aware the CG was an official forum as much as any other, and deserved equal attention, but the amount of time I had available to moderate in any given session dictated whether I could slowly plod through the GGN Support forum moving or deleting threads and messaging people, or whip through some GCD reports with many necessary parts of the process integrated or automated. On mods specifically, I can say that I never saw the admins advertise a cause that needed modly attention - a new sponsored guild, an event forum or even a new permanent forum like GCP, Contests or Lifestyle - and not receive it. And the mod team is growing (or meant to be - I don't know the latest). The CG had the GGN mods, and RG has its own. In that bunch, and from other areas, I'm sure that if RG was expanded it could be effectively moderated. And if there is more spam expected simply because that would be a main forum as opposed to a hidden guild, I believe the presence of a report system is more than adequate compensation. Finally, I can't see any necessary difference in how these forums would be moderated, compared to the CG, so I'm not sure what you refer to when you say it would be harder to keep users following the rules. It's simple: mods process reports and either move threads that don't belong or leave ones that do alone. The advantage over the CG, besides the report system itself, is that mods no longer have to decide between two extremes when they see a spam thread: "Is this Captains' Chat spam, or spam I must irreversibly delete?" Similarly, I don't know what you mean by it being harder to keep things on topic. Surely this depends on each topic's author? (Also, I saw very few really focused discussions ever take place in the CG, and I don't see how this problem could possibly get any worse in a forum! Any focussed discussion would be a welcome change for the community in general, imho smile More like we're doing now!) Overall, I think the CG could only be reactivated, unchanged, in a temporary capacity - i.e. until a better forum arrangement is decided on and implemented. It could also be reactivated alongside new GGN main forums with some adjustments - what kinds of adjustments is a whole other discussion, which of course I'd love to have as well... On that note, here is roughly how I'd draw up a pros/cons list. Pros: CG reactivated (as it was)
Quick and easy
"Exhibits" the GGN Cons: CG reactivated (as it was)
Backward step
Same old problems of overlap, isolation, confusion, locking most of Gaia out for no reason, and slower moderation without report system
Pros: GGN Discussion forum
More open - no one locked in or out
Removes overlap; better organised as a GGN community forum and better organised within Gaia
Could raise GGN's profile
Faster and more consistent moderation with report system Cons: GGN Discussion forum
Takes more time and energy
Requires change of habits as topics find new homes
Admins have shown no (public) interest in the GGN forum situation Just quickly on the note of keeping things on topic - I think we're kind of derailing this one, which is supposed to be about feedback for the GGN update. It might be best to continue this in the SF thread I made, or start a new thread in this guild. I'll c&p some recent quotes over to SF now. ^^ As far as I know devs aren't responsible for the forum arrangement so it's not really fair to lump this stuff in wesden_girl's thread~
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:44 pm
WindowOpener (Sorry; wall of text xP) I really like pros and cons lists! And I agree with most of your points. Your message at the end is also relevant. While I think there were a lot of fundamental problems with how the GGN forums were arranged when the CG was alive, it was better than having only RG. If it's a toss-up between bringing the CG back quickly, or establishing new forums over the course of months and months, then bring back the CG. As you say, it even begs the question, why not both? I'll just repost my suggestion for ease of reference: GGN Discussion - General GGN discussion, including feature suggestionsCaptain / guild leading help and advice threads
Guild service and buy/sell threads
Affiliation and networking threads
Advertising/recruiting threads Naturally, I feel compelled to make changes to your pro/con list in relation to this arrangement... whee On the topic of whether the CG or a forum would receive more spam, I just want to note that the CG was by no means a clean and tidy place most of the time. We did have people pop in to say "bumpety bump" for no apparent reason. It's more elitist than we realise sometimes to think of the requirement of captaincy to be in the CG as a sort of filter. It's hard to predict what the flow of spam would be like in a forum that has never existed before, but even so, misplaced threads are a fact of life. No forum is immune, but in nearly every case it is manageable. Things only get out of hand when you have a forum like "Gaia Contests" intended for discussion about one thing, mistaken by pretty much everyone for something else - I remember this scenario very well, because the misunderstanding was so widespread the report queue was virtually empty while the forum was unrecognisable. I digress... On the topic of making topics easier to find, I believe resources like the stickies in the CG could be arranged intuitively in main forums. The most contentious information is probably the lists of bugs and suggestions - as the GGN becomes (as we hope) less isolated from the main forums it may be expected that bug threads relating to guilds belong in the BR&TS forum, and that suggestions even be moved to Site Feedback. I can see the advantages of both arrangements, but bug reports and GGN suggestions both originated in the CG for DARKNRGY's convenience, and remained there only because there was no momentum generated (by a GGN update) to 'delegate' these topics to the appropriate areas of the wider site. That momentum is not necessarily building just yet, but if we went back to having those topics isolated in their own guild again I don't think it could be seen as a long-term arrangement. On the topic of moderators, I really think the presence of a report system needs to be stressed - personally, I believe it makes a huge difference. While I modded I was aware the CG was an official forum as much as any other, and deserved equal attention, but the amount of time I had available to moderate in any given session dictated whether I could slowly plod through the GGN Support forum moving or deleting threads and messaging people, or whip through some GCD reports with many necessary parts of the process integrated or automated. On mods specifically, I can say that I never saw the admins advertise a cause that needed modly attention - a new sponsored guild, an event forum or even a new permanent forum like GCP, Contests or Lifestyle - and not receive it. And the mod team is growing (or meant to be - I don't know the latest). The CG had the GGN mods, and RG has its own. In that bunch, and from other areas, I'm sure that if RG was expanded it could be effectively moderated. And if there is more spam expected simply because that would be a main forum as opposed to a hidden guild, I believe the presence of a report system is more than adequate compensation. Finally, I can't see any necessary difference in how these forums would be moderated, compared to the CG, so I'm not sure what you refer to when you say it would be harder to keep users following the rules. It's simple: mods process reports and either move threads that don't belong or leave ones that do alone. The advantage over the CG, besides the report system itself, is that mods no longer have to decide between two extremes when they see a spam thread: "Is this Captains' Chat spam, or spam I must irreversibly delete?" Similarly, I don't know what you mean by it being harder to keep things on topic. Surely this depends on each topic's author? (Also, I saw very few really focused discussions ever take place in the CG, and I don't see how this problem could possibly get any worse in a forum! Any focussed discussion would be a welcome change for the community in general, imho smile More like we're doing now!) Overall, I think the CG could only be reactivated, unchanged, in a temporary capacity - i.e. until a better forum arrangement is decided on and implemented. It could also be reactivated alongside new GGN main forums with some adjustments - what kinds of adjustments is a whole other discussion, which of course I'd love to have as well... On that note, here is roughly how I'd draw up a pros/cons list. Pros: CG reactivated (as it was)
Quick and easy
"Exhibits" the GGN Cons: CG reactivated (as it was)
Backward step
Same old problems of overlap, isolation, confusion, locking most of Gaia out for no reason, and slower moderation without report system
Pros: GGN Discussion forum
More open - no one locked in or out
Removes overlap; better organised as a GGN community forum and better organised within Gaia
Could raise GGN's profile
Faster and more consistent moderation with report system Cons: GGN Discussion forum
Takes more time and energy
Requires change of habits as topics find new homes
Admins have shown no (public) interest in the GGN forum situation Just quickly on the note of keeping things on topic - I think we're kind of derailing this one, which is supposed to be about feedback for the GGN update. It might be best to continue this in the SF thread I made, or start a new thread in this guild. I'll c&p some recent quotes over to SF now. ^^ As far as I know devs aren't responsible for the forum arrangement so it's not really fair to lump this stuff in wesden_girl's thread~ As always, you ALWAYS have an answer lol. rolleyes I do see how the GGN discussion...............ill reply to this in the thread you made, your right, it dosnt "Technically" belonge here. 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:04 am
@Wesden_girl: If I may - can I suggest the restoration of an old feature?
In guilds you used to be able to search for people's usernames, and if someone was not a member of your guild, they would show up as a 'non-member' and you could ban them from public posting. I don't know when this was changed, but now it just says 'Not Found' when you search someone who isn't a member, and you can't ban them from public posting.
I ask because our guild has always been public - we've held pride in being the first Pagan/Wiccan guild on Gaia to be a public guild, and now, because this feature has been removed, we've had to go private to defend ourselves from a self-righteous troll.
We've treasured our 'try before you buy' policy, and it's really disappointing to have to drop it - seeing as the function once existed, would it be possible to restore it?
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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:46 pm
JVCA @Wesden_girl: If I may - can I suggest the restoration of an old feature? In guilds you used to be able to search for people's usernames, and if someone was not a member of your guild, they would show up as a 'non-member' and you could ban them from public posting. I don't know when this was changed, but now it just says 'Not Found' when you search someone who isn't a member, and you can't ban them from public posting. I ask because our guild has always been public - we've held pride in being the first Pagan/Wiccan guild on Gaia to be a public guild, and now, because this feature has been removed, we've had to go private to defend ourselves from a self-righteous troll. We've treasured our 'try before you buy' policy, and it's really disappointing to have to drop it - seeing as the function once existed, would it be possible to restore it? Would love to get more background on this once we get through our next 2 weeks of launches smile Let's get in touch in after the end of the month.
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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:54 pm
HI folks...
Sorry for radio silence the last week. We've had some small changes with code branching/merging that will enable us to release the guild admin panel entry (of 5 guild tags + short description) along with the new UI and search functionality at once!
What does that mean to you? It means no loss of functionality, and a 1-2 combo of features and functionality. Once we launch, you will be able to enter your guild tags and short description, and it will be instantly searchable! Remember users can (and will still be able to) search via your guild title. The 5 tags and short description are a nice bonus that will make finding your guild a lot easier.
I do want to remind you all that we will be relying on you to include those new tags and short description (which will be found in the guild admin panel) to help users find your guild. I, along with Gaia, believe in guilds and want to help you re-energize activity and this is a first step in more to come.
We are looking at launching later this week if we get our final ok from QA, so please keep your fingers crossed!
Thanks to everyone for their support, and I look forward to being a part of the guild community here on Gaia for a long time!
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Reply
