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Novos Constitution -Vote Results: 4 in favor, 0 against Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2 3 ... 4 5 [>] [»|]

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Do you wish to enact the proposed constitution? (see first post for details) (You must post your vote at the end of this thread to prevent cheating)
Enact the Constitution
100%
 100%  [ 4 ]
Do not Enact the Constitution
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 4


Myslec
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:24 pm


In some cases, like now, they need to be disused side-by-side! This may not always apply, but for this and others it does and will.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:17 pm


Aperium
We are off topic. This is a serious thread.

Thread trimmed.

Fenris Claiborne
There needs to be a bit about extending the debate for unresolved issues.
I agree. Full discussion of all revisions is an absolute neccessity. As such it should not be possible to enact any revision without giving the option of extending the discussion.

Also, there should a a limited time period for voting, and all [active] members should be notified of proposed revisions at the beginning of the discussion period. That way, if they fail to vote within the time period, it can be assumed that they are abstaining.

Ladyfriend
Crew


aghwfiajfajioejf
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:19 pm


Members should be notified twice, once at the beginning of the discussion and once when voting starts. Some of us with busy schedules might appreciate the reminder since a week, while it is a fair amount of time, is still something one could easily miss.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:48 pm


Any proposed revision to the constitution must be subject to a period of discussion and deliberation at least thirty (30) days in length and open to all members in good standing. At the end of the deliberation period, the proposed revision must be subject to a vote with the capacity to either confirm or deny the enactment of the revision. All members in good standing must be notified of the proposed revision and the date of the vote at least thirty (30) days and two (2) days before the vote is set to take place. In order for such a proposed revision to be enacted, three quarters of all legitimatly partcipating members must vote in favor of enacting the proposed revision.


(Revisions are posted in red.)

Aperium
Crew


Ladyfriend
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:20 am


i was think more of something like...

Quote:
Any proposed revision to the constitution must be subject to a period of discussion and deliberation at least thirty (30)days in length and open to all members in good standing. At the end of the deliberation period all members in good standing will be given an opportunity to vote on the proposed revision over a period of fifteen (15) days. During which they will have the option to either confirm or deny the enactment of the revision , or to extend the period of deliberation. All members in good standing must be notified of the proposed revision and the date of the vote at least thirtyfive (35) days and two (2) days before the vote is set to take place. In order for such a proposed revision to be enacted, more than one half of all voting members must vote in favor of enacting the proposed revision.


This way members will be notified before the discussion starts and should have time to prepare any argument they wish to present. Also our ability to pass revisions will not be paralised by people failing, or refusing, to cast their vote.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:18 pm


Quote:
Any proposed revision to the constitution must be subject to a period of discussion and deliberation at least thirty (30) days in length and open to all members in good standing. At the end of the deliberation period all members in good standing will be given an opportunity to vote on the proposed revision over a period of fifteen (15) days. During which they will have the option to either confirm or deny the enactment of the revision, or to extend the period of deliberation. All members in good standing must be notified of the proposed revision and the date of the vote at least thirtyfive (35) days and two (2) days before the vote is set to take place. In order for such a proposed revision to be enacted, more than one half (1/2) of all voting members must vote in favor of enacting the proposed revision.


These changes are good for the most part, but I have problems with the parts in green and violet. I'll start with green:

In a two-way vote to say "yes" or "no" it is fairly simple to see what the majority is. However if there is a three-way vote, "yes," "no," and "let's talk about it some more," it will still be easy to see if the "yes" got more that 50% of the votes, but what if it didn't? The other option are "no" and "let's talk about it some more." does the one with the most votes win? What if people that voted "yes" want to continue discussion now that the vote did not pass? What if some one voted "let's talk about it some more" and the vote got more "no"s than anything else? When ever a third party is added, one of the existing parties is hurt, the same applies here.
What is the difference between "no" and "let's talk about it some more"? Both option prevent the thing from being passed, just in one you also get the option to continue with discussion. Yes, I said option. If the majority of people don't want the discussion to continue, they don't have to talk about the topic and can keep voting the 'continue discussion' option. There is no real need for the "no" option in the vote and it makes interpreting the results more confusing.

My problems with the violet part is more strait forward. I would rather have a two-thirds (2/3) or a three-fourths (3/4) majority to pass an amendment, that way a larger percentage of the membership will like the change, what ever it may be.
Just look at the US. To pass a Constitutional Amendment you need some thing like a 2/3 majority in both houses of congress and ratification by 3/4 of the states.

I propose:
Quote:
Any proposed revision to the constitution must be subject to a period of discussion and deliberation at least thirty (30) days in length and open to all members in good standing. At the end of the deliberation period all members in good standing must be given an opportunity to vote on the proposed revision over a period of fifteen (15) days. During which they must have the option to either confirm or deny the enactment of the revision and to extend the period of deliberation. All members in good standing must be notified of the proposed revision and the date of the vote at least thirtyfive (35) days and two (2) days before the vote is set to take place. In order for such a proposed revision to be enacted, at least two thirds (2/3) of all voting members must vote in favor of enacting the proposed revision.

Aperium
Crew


Ladyfriend
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:58 pm


Aperium

In a two-way vote to say "yes" or "no" it is fairly simple to see what the majority is.
'No' is not the same as 'continue the discussion'. Voting 'no' is voting to scrap the revision, stop discussing it entirely, and move on to an entirely different revision. If this wasn't the case we could end up with revisions that the majority simpley do not want passing stying open for discussion indeffinitely. That will not help us move forward and create a manifesto and constitution if we are to have a limited number of organised discussion happening at any one time.

If neither 'yes' or 'no' recieve more than 50% of the vote it shows that this party does not have a majority that wants either, and so the discussion should be extended. Effectivelly the 'discuss it more' option is a 'so far we're undecided' option.
Aperium

My problems with the violet part is more strait forward. I would rather have a two-thirds (2/3) or a three-fourths (3/4) majority to pass an amendment, that way a larger percentage of the membership will like the change, what ever it may be.

In a vote that has three options a 2/3 or 3/4 majority is far less achievable than a 51% majority. It would become too difficult to pass revisions in a time when we're trying to get alot in place.
Aperium

Just look at the US. To pass a Constitutional Amendment you need some thing like a 2/3 majority in both houses of congress and ratification by 3/4 of the states.
It seems that alot of the discussions we will be having will come down to 'US vs UK'.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:26 am


I think there should be a vote between passing it and not passing it. If the vote doesn't pass, then a secondary vote will be held to decide between continuing discussion and stopping discussion.

This way there are still clear cut majorities and all options are still there.


My Proposal
Any proposed revision to the constitution must be subject to a period of discussion and deliberation at least thirty (30) days in length and open to all members in good standing. At the end of the deliberation period all members in good standing must be given an opportunity to vote on the proposed revision over a period of fifteen (15) days. During which they must have the option to either confirm or deny the enactment of the revision. In the case that the enactment is denied, a secondary vote must be held with the options either to extend the period of deliberation or to cease discussion over the proposed revision. All members in good standing must be notified of the proposed revision and the date of the vote at least thirty-five (35) days and two (2) days before the vote is set to take place. In order for such a proposed revision to be enacted, at least two-thirds (2/3) of all voting members must vote in favor of enacting the proposed revision.

Myslec
Crew

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