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 Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:54 pm
I am a Christian, even though I sometimes lose my faith.
But the Christian church here in Finland is a lot different from the Catholic church. And also, there are many smaller Christian religions which all have different beliefs.
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:43 pm
sistergoldenhair Dirk Bolero Oh, and I'm not sure about the "one, holy, catholic, and aposolic church" thing. I don't think any church run by man can be worthy of the Lord... Just looking around at the ones we've got, they're all missing crucial parts! The Catholics pray to saints, but they have confession... The only problem with Catholic confession is that they "measure" each sin. Like doing twelve "Hail Mary"s for masturbating or something. It isn't like that! You have to put your HEART into worship. Jesus spoke time and time again about worship being about the motive as well as the deed! Protestants... The whole Protestant church seems kinda blah to me. I mean, I've gone to some really good ones, but there's nobody to confess your sins to... No place you can ask someone to pray for your sins, with the garunteed privacy that the Catholic confession offers. It's confusing. So confusing... So I think there is one church, but its members are scattered between many denominations. Buried under a mountain of false Christians and bible beaters... sad Catholic refers to the Universal Church... which is all of us, Roman Catholics, Episcopalians, etc etc.. holy means "set apart", obviously, and apostalic (this is where it gets sticky for some) means we have an unbroken chain of the laying on of hands in our priests/bishops/deacons etc going all the way back to the twelve apostles. For the record, the Romans (catholics) ask the saints to pray WITH THEM, and there's something to be said for well meant penance. You've also broke my rule about dogging other religions. That includes other bodies of your fellow Christians, and I won't tolerate it. I know you snuck in a dig at your fellow Protestants (you are one if you don't recognize the authority of the Pope) but that doesn't make it okay. Where do you fit on on that spectrum anyway? I think that instead of worrying about "false Christians" we need to look after our own salvation and worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness. SORRY! I didn't mean to! I wasn't trying to dog anything or anyone! Sorry! REALLY sorry! redface
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:10 pm
Dirk Bolero sistergoldenhair Dirk Bolero Oh, and I'm not sure about the "one, holy, catholic, and aposolic church" thing. I don't think any church run by man can be worthy of the Lord... Just looking around at the ones we've got, they're all missing crucial parts! The Catholics pray to saints, but they have confession... The only problem with Catholic confession is that they "measure" each sin. Like doing twelve "Hail Mary"s for masturbating or something. It isn't like that! You have to put your HEART into worship. Jesus spoke time and time again about worship being about the motive as well as the deed! Protestants... The whole Protestant church seems kinda blah to me. I mean, I've gone to some really good ones, but there's nobody to confess your sins to... No place you can ask someone to pray for your sins, with the garunteed privacy that the Catholic confession offers. It's confusing. So confusing... So I think there is one church, but its members are scattered between many denominations. Buried under a mountain of false Christians and bible beaters... sad Catholic refers to the Universal Church... which is all of us, Roman Catholics, Episcopalians, etc etc.. holy means "set apart", obviously, and apostalic (this is where it gets sticky for some) means we have an unbroken chain of the laying on of hands in our priests/bishops/deacons etc going all the way back to the twelve apostles. For the record, the Romans (catholics) ask the saints to pray WITH THEM, and there's something to be said for well meant penance. You've also broke my rule about dogging other religions. That includes other bodies of your fellow Christians, and I won't tolerate it. I know you snuck in a dig at your fellow Protestants (you are one if you don't recognize the authority of the Pope) but that doesn't make it okay. Where do you fit on on that spectrum anyway? I think that instead of worrying about "false Christians" we need to look after our own salvation and worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness. SORRY! I didn't mean to! I wasn't trying to dog anything or anyone! Sorry! REALLY sorry! redface It's okay, just don't do it again.
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:14 pm
sistergoldenhair I was thinking about some things and reading our cute little Buddist Psychic thread just now and I started wondering: How many of us in here are actually Christians? Before you answer and tell me you're just spiritual, or whatnot, let me clarify. I'm not asking if you go to church, though that is certainly helpful (and I'd like to know what your backgrounds are), I'm asking if you're a Christian. If you don't know, I'm going to go ahead and put the Nicene Creed in this post. If you can say yes, you believe that stuff about it, then you qualify. smile Also, while I'm at it, I want to say that the earliest known Christian Creed is "Jesus, God's son, Savoir", so that qualifies as well, at the bare minimum level. I'm starting to think we need to do some more stuff toward that end (the Christianity end) and I want some suggestions. Things you'd like to learn about or talk about and I'll see if i can produce it. Or if someone else can. Anyhoo, here's the Creed. If you don't understand part of it, ask. Quote: 1. We believe in one God the Father, the Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen. 2. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being [substance] with the Father. Through him all things were made. 3. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made truly human. 4. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. 5. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; 6. he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. 7. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.. 8. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. 9. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. 10. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. 11. We look for the resurrection of the dead, 12. and the life of the world to come. Amen. Yes, I'm a christian and I agree with everything in the Nicene Creed
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:50 pm
I'm Christian and nondenominational. I'm actually planning my schooling around to become a pastor and own a church. (Finally with mom's permission.) Anyways with the creed thing, I didn't really disagree with anything. With most of what I understood I agreed with...But some parts I didn't understand, so I'm not going to say whether I fully agreed or not.
But my beliefs Jesus, God, Holy Spirit are all the same. Trinity belief. I believe you have to confess Jesus is your savior and died for your sins, AND confess your sins to be saved. I also believe that just becaue you claim salvation you aren't eternally saved. I believe you can backslide. I believe it's adaily choice and lifestyle and that if one day I choose to totally not live for God and do as I please, I'm no longer saved. (That was example.)
Just explaining my beliefs since I wasn't totally in agreance(sp) with the creed.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:34 am
Can I ask what you object to in the 1500 year old statement of faith?
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:15 am
sistergoldenhair Can I ask what you object to in the 1500 year old statement of faith? Sis, I don't want to be... that guy, but what does the age of the Creed have to do with anything? I'm not bashing old creeds of any kind, but a lot people argue to me that it's old, and in their logic that means that it has to be right. I think the quality of a creed should stand out more than it's age.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:55 am
Terg sistergoldenhair Can I ask what you object to in the 1500 year old statement of faith? Sis, I don't want to be... that guy, but what does the age of the Creed have to do with anything? I'm not bashing old creeds of any kind, but a lot people argue to me that it's old, and in their logic that means that it has to be right. I think the quality of a creed should stand out more than it's age. Well, Dan, the only reason I point that out is that it was the statement of faith agreed upon by the unfied church before all the divisions and the schisms and the bs caught up with us. It's complete, has no bs. attached, and it doesn't go into a horrendous amount of detail or quibble on particulars.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:52 pm
sistergoldenhair Terg sistergoldenhair Can I ask what you object to in the 1500 year old statement of faith? Sis, I don't want to be... that guy, but what does the age of the Creed have to do with anything? I'm not bashing old creeds of any kind, but a lot people argue to me that it's old, and in their logic that means that it has to be right. I think the quality of a creed should stand out more than it's age. Well, Dan, the only reason I point that out is that it was the statement of faith agreed upon by the unfied church before all the divisions and the schisms and the bs caught up with us. It's complete, has no bs. attached, and it doesn't go into a horrendous amount of detail or quibble on particulars. Point well made. I understand now, danke.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:23 pm
AS for me, I'm christian, but not really a huge goer of churches and I agree with most of the creed, but not all. Like I believe that God and JEsus are one and the same, but not that they are also separate except for when Jesus was down here saving all our butts.
Also, I believe that a 'church' is in one's heart, not in how many people fill a building and give money to it. To me, God and religion are in your heart and soul- if you love something you love it weather people see and hear you do it or not; you help teach the beliefs and values but you don't shove them on others. Just live and let live, like Jesus was teaching us to do. Teach and care for those who are not 'awake' (spiritually or otherwise) but do not ignore them because they are lost.
No offense meant there, if I did offend, I apologize. Yeah, that's about the core of my beliefs.
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tenshikitsune Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:46 am
tenshikitsune Quote: AS for me, I'm christian, but not really a huge goer of churches and I agree with most of the creed, but not all. Like I believe that God and JEsus are one and the same, but not that they are also separate except for when Jesus was down here saving all our butts. Hmm? Quote: Also, I believe that a 'church' is in one's heart, not in how many people fill a building and give money to it. To me, God and religion are in your heart The Church referred to in the creeds is the whole body of Christ, not our many varied buildings. It's referring to all Christians, past, present, and future. You know, that cloud of witnesses thing. Quote: and soul- if you love something you love it weather people see and hear you do it or not; you help teach the beliefs and values but you don't shove them on others. Just live and let live, like Jesus was teaching us to do. I didn't notice the Pharisees being "let be" by Christ at all. He exposed their hypocrsy and turned the world upside down in the process. Quote: Teach and care for those who are not 'awake' (spiritually or otherwise) but do not ignore them because they are lost. No offense meant there, if I did offend, I apologize. Yeah, that's about the core of my beliefs.[/ quote]
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:29 am
tenshikitsune AS for me, I'm christian, but not really a huge goer of churches and I agree with most of the creed, but not all. Like I believe that God and JEsus are one and the same, but not that they are also separate except for when Jesus was down here saving all our butts. Also, I believe that a 'church' is in one's heart, not in how many people fill a building and give money to it. To me, God and religion are in your heart and soul- if you love something you love it weather people see and hear you do it or not; you help teach the beliefs and values but you don't shove them on others. Just live and let live, like Jesus was teaching us to do. Teach and care for those who are not 'awake' (spiritually or otherwise) but do not ignore them because they are lost. No offense meant there, if I did offend, I apologize. Yeah, that's about the core of my beliefs. So, I think I get what you're saying about God and Jesus being the same, but not separate except when Jesus came down here. Like, a part of God or an aspect kind of "broke off" and was incarnated into flesh, and then when he died, he kind of "merged" with God again? Am I really far off in understanding this? So, in Heaven, God and Jesus are one "entity" so to speak? I agree with the love for something, whether people see or hear it, is plenty enough; that whole bit of not making a public display of prayer comes to mind. Plus, sometimes it's easier to teach values and even beliefs without being terribly direct about it. "Just live and let live, like Jesus was teaching us to do." Hmm...I guess I'm inbetween you and Sis on this one. I do believe the core of his teaching supports what you say, and it's what I follow. But in the Gospels, Jesus can get pretty provocative as well. Those who were belittled were brought back worth, while those who were acting (the word 'hypocrit' in the Gospels), faking their religion weren't let be. But, that's understandable to me...if Jesus didn't correct them, he couldn't have brought the worth back to the others. It's like how if someone is really arrogant and hurting others, you should stop them, right?
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:27 am
sistergoldenhair Can I ask what you object to in the 1500 year old statement of faith? To me the age means nothing, honestly. And secondly for a creed that's cool to hve I really don't understand it's purpose in statement while there's a bible. But I never said I objected to anything in the creed. I agree with all I understood of it. If you reread my post I put that I didn't really disagree with anything but because of my lack of understanding of some parts I wasn't going to say whether I fully agree or not.
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:11 am
SaraRenee sistergoldenhair Can I ask what you object to in the 1500 year old statement of faith? To me the age means nothing, honestly. And secondly for a creed that's cool to hve I really don't understand it's purpose in statement while there's a bible. But I never said I objected to anything in the creed. I agree with all I understood of it. If you reread my post I put that I didn't really disagree with anything but because of my lack of understanding of some parts I wasn't going to say whether I fully agree or not. Okay. Honestly, the purpose of the creed at the time it was compiled is that there were seven different versions of Christianity and varying Christology (Is Jesus fully God, or fully human? Did he really die or was it just metaphorical? Does this make us (then Jews) polytheists? ) floating around and the emperor basically ordered all the bishops to get together and get it figured out. This is what they came up with. The cannon of scripture (what goes into the Bible) has a similair tale attached to it. The Nicene Creed represents orthodox Christology. It is the essence of our faith. The bible is wonderful and it contains all things neccessary to salvation (direct quote from Episcopal ordination vows) but it must be interpeted to answer our questions in any reasonable fashion. If that wasn't true, we wouldn't have so many different churches running around or all these arguments on the interpetation of scripture. If that wasn't true, Skiddishfit would probably be a Trinitarian. smile Anyway, I guess the Christian Educator in me (Sunday school teacher) might want to put this stuff in the new subforum. YEA!
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:06 am
sistergoldenhair SaraRenee sistergoldenhair Can I ask what you object to in the 1500 year old statement of faith? To me the age means nothing, honestly. And secondly for a creed that's cool to hve I really don't understand it's purpose in statement while there's a bible. But I never said I objected to anything in the creed. I agree with all I understood of it. If you reread my post I put that I didn't really disagree with anything but because of my lack of understanding of some parts I wasn't going to say whether I fully agree or not. Okay. Honestly, the purpose of the creed at the time it was compiled is that there were seven different versions of Christianity and varying Christology (Is Jesus fully God, or fully human? Did he really die or was it just metaphorical? Does this make us (then Jews) polytheists? ) floating around and the emperor basically ordered all the bishops to get together and get it figured out. This is what they came up with. The cannon of scripture (what goes into the Bible) has a similair tale attached to it. The Nicene Creed represents orthodox Christology. It is the essence of our faith. The bible is wonderful and it contains all things neccessary to salvation (direct quote from Episcopal ordination vows) but it must be interpeted to answer our questions in any reasonable fashion. If that wasn't true, we wouldn't have so many different churches running around or all these arguments on the interpetation of scripture. If that wasn't true, Skiddishfit would probably be a Trinitarian. smile Anyway, I guess the Christian Educator in me (Sunday school teacher) might want to put this stuff in the new subforum. YEA! The Council of Nicea...*shudder* I've had a dream about that before. xd
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