Episode I: Der Wille Zur Macht Story Discussion | Page 3 | Episode I: Der Wille Zur Macht Discussion [General Spoiler Warning] | Guild Forums

Memory of the Sky

Offline

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:17 pm

It is explained in the game o.O;;; Joachim Mizrahi created it, it was told in a flashback Shion had while she was looking out the window of the institute her mother was in on Miltia. Not only that, Jr. mentions "Its the single most worst creation Mizrahi created." <---something along those lines.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

shojokakumeii00

Ekplixi

I think that Wilhelm might be Lucifer, but X Cube thinks he's Odin. There are lots of different bits of evidence towards either theory, so...

Wilhelm is still confusing me about exactly what mythical figure he's representing (if it's a mythical figure at all), since all of the characters are refferencing something it's doubtful that'd they'd just leave Wilhelm out of the whole symbolism thing.

Now one thought I had, probably only due to the fact that we just finished a unit on WWI in history, was that maybe Wilhelm is a refference to Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany - now I don't know enough about the Kaiser to say much other than that they share both a name and a seat of power.

Again with the name connections, one of the brothers Grimm was named Wilhelm (if I'm not mistaken, google isn't infalible) - it doesn't seem like a very big connection until you concider the only (that I know of - I haven't seen any others yet) allusion to the brothers Grimm was in the story of Marienkind - which I'm not going to go into in depth since I already have another topic about it, but basically it has to do with equating the 13 doors of heaven to the 13 zohar emulators, etc. Again not a whole lot to support this theory, but it's an interesting thought.

Though probably of more note than the previous two, Nietzsche's full name is Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche. Seeing as how each episode has been titled after a work by Nietzsche and how [really minor ep 2 spoiler] Wilhelm quotes Nietzsche at the end of ep 2 maybe Wilhelm is a refference to Nietzche himself - or that could just be one aspect of the symbolism around him.

And lastly with my name tangent, the etemology of the name Wilhelm, from behindthename.com: "...Wilhelm, which was composed of the elements wil 'will, desire' and helm 'helmet, protection'." The most interesting component is probably "Wil" concidering that Wilhelm makes at least one comment regarding someone's will during the game, especially if you concider his line: "His will shines with such wondrous light. It's a shame to relegate him to such a minor role." maybe that's where the "helm" - "protection" comes in and that might make him the protector of wills (is there a mythological figure with a similar role? I haven't found it yet but I haven't been looking for very long). Eh, I'm just typing this as I go so I haven't really thoroughly thought out any of this yet, but hopefully someone'll be able to make some sense of it.

A-ha! The Nietzsche thing is definitely worth noting!

Wilhelm and the Testaments confuse me. I'm not sure if the Testaments actually work for him or if they simply do as they please. Something makes me think they do as they please, and simply use their powers as mandated by God. Angels, maybe? The Four Horsemen is a good theory that I certainly think could be true.

Wilhelm...I dunno. I could see him as God or as something else. I'm so confused about him...

However, what if he's simply a reference to Nietzsche himself--someone who watches this spiritual war, detached, and tells the world about it?

Tsaret

Offline

shojokakumeii00
Captain

Offline

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:47 am

Ekplixi

A-ha! The Nietzsche thing is definitely worth noting!

Wilhelm and the Testaments confuse me. I'm not sure if the Testaments actually work for him or if they simply do as they please. Something makes me think they do as they please, and simply use their powers as mandated by God. Angels, maybe? The Four Horsemen is a good theory that I certainly think could be true.

Wilhelm...I dunno. I could see him as God or as something else. I'm so confused about him...

However, what if he's simply a reference to Nietzsche himself--someone who watches this spiritual war, detached, and tells the world about it?

Yay! Someone made sense of my incoherent rambelings!

Yes, I can deffinantly see Wilhelm as a God-like figure, but concidering that this is Xenosaga that we're talking about I'm sure it's something more specific than just God for Wilhelm. But that's just my thought.

Now I really like how you put that last sentence: "[What] if he's simply a reference to Nietzsche himself--someone who watches this spiritual war, detached, and tells the world about it?" I think it works really well. Wilhelm always gives me the impression of a more-or-less omniscient narrator of sorts - or even a philosopher. Espically concidering that he is never really seen *doing* anything, but just talking about it (now he very well could be doing things or telling the Testaments to do them for him, but I don't recall that he ever specifically gives a single order in the game he just likes to poke people and make obscure refferences to various things).

I just had an interesting thought - maybe if Wilhelm is suposed to be Nietzche maybe the Testaments aren't the four horsemen (or maybe it's a dual symbol - XS seems to have quite a few of these) but some of Nietzche's " Overmen" (sometimes translated as "Supermen"). I don't know a whole lot about Nietzchen philosophy but I read about the first half of Zarathustra before my reading load for school got to heavy to keep reading it. Basically what I got from it was that Zarathustra proclaims that "God is dead" (ie. Naturalism - that God is uncaring and isn't listening or isn't even there anymore) and the rest (of what I read) was all of this stuff about the "Overman" which confused me immensly. I had interpreted it as relating to evolution (that these "Overmen" were the highest evolved form of man) but upon reading a bit on various encyclopedias online about Nietzche they all make some mention that many people misinterpret Zarathusta like that. So now if I use Xensaga to help make more sense of his philosophy of the "Overman" (assuming that the Testaments are representative of this), the "Overman" isn't a highly evolved form of man, but rather a form of man that has thrown away the known boundries of self and has become something greater. Wilhelm's refferences to "will power" might also give a clue that only those with strong wills can surpass the known realm and become this "Overman" type figure - I believe (I could be wrong) that Zarathustra makes some mention of will power in his rambelings more indirectly if I remember correctly - or maybe he says something right out about it, I can't remember very clearly (I'll go look it up later to make sure).

I have no idea how much sense that made or even if I made any point - I have a terrible tendency to forget what the hell I was talking about before I manage to conclude anything.

Welcome to Gaia! ::

Gaia Guilds

~Xenosaga Fan Guild~ Here the Future

Quick Reply

More Information