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 Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:19 am
Sanguina Cruenta At any rate I don't see any link between Nerthus and Eostre. If anything I'd be more inclined to link Nerthus and Jorð which I think is a conversation we've had before. We have. As to the rest of your post, I generally agree. I'm just throwing our ideas for the sake of conversation. So yeah. I get that's all we've got to say on that. Actually, speaking about things we've discussed in here before, I was actually wondering if anyone had any more recent thoughts or ideas about some of our previous discussions on such things.
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:16 pm
CalledTheRaven First off, I've still seen nothing to convince me that Eostra wasn't just an invention or misunderstanding of Bede's. This article covers that pretty thoroughly. Because there is some debate about her however, I can see the reasons to bring her up in this thread. Second, I've not come across the idea that Idunna and Eostre were the same being from any reputable sources, so that's basically not an argument or a mystery. I was going to get into that after a little discussion. I wanted to start it with the Eostre and Idun thought because they are both also related to something I read on enclycopedia mythica about Idunn possibly being one of the vanir. Encyclopdeia Mythica supported this through their associations with fertility, renewal of life, and spring time. I think this is very possible as the other Vanir are connected with ferility in some form. I see both Eosrte and Idun as seperate. Even if Eostre was not a real historical deity, I believe that the simple fact that there are people who worship her today and have created enough mental and psychic energy that a deity manifested. I believe she many be real now but we are unsure of her historical accuracy or role if any. I believe that there may be lost lore on Eostre. I support both theories as we have lost enough of the lore about which deities were the Vanir, what they did, and any of their myths. Does it matter if we only have the one source? That is a serious honest question. That is the reason I brought them up in this thread.
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:28 pm
Loona Wynd I wanted to start it with the Eostre and Idun thought because they are both also related to something I read on enclycopedia mythica about Idunn possibly being one of the vanir. Encyclopdeia Mythica supported this through their associations with fertility, renewal of life, and spring time. I think this is very possible as the other Vanir are connected with ferility in some form. I see both Eosrte and Idun as seperate. Even if Eostre was not a real historical deity, I believe that the simple fact that there are people who worship her today and have created enough mental and psychic energy that a deity manifested. I believe she many be real now but we are unsure of her historical accuracy or role if any. I believe that there may be lost lore on Eostre. I support both theories as we have lost enough of the lore about which deities were the Vanir, what they did, and any of their myths. Does it matter if we only have the one source? That is a serious honest question. That is the reason I brought them up in this thread. It does if you consider yourself a recon and I believe it does if the source is suspect. Did you read the article? Even if you take that single source at face value, the actual content amounts to two lines of text with almost no information of value in it. Add in that we know Bede had a tendency to speculate and there is no other reputable source to corroborate, not before and not after (not until Grimm started fudging things to suit a nationalistic agenda), and I see no reason to accept her as a historical deity. If new information comes to light I may revise my opinion. Mind, I've never definitively said she did not or does not exist, just that I've seen nothing to support it. While I rely heavily on lore and sources I also rely on UPG but I will always be careful to define the two in a discussion. As to the comment about her existing because pagans now believe in her, I don't know that I accept that at all. While I'll accept that deities do tend to be shaped by; or perhaps shape themselves to; specific cultures, and they can evolve and change, I don't believe that their existence is dependent on the beliefs of humanity. It's an idea that makes for some enjoyable fiction (Neil Gaiman is particularly fond of this idea in his writing) but does not fit in my own practice or experience with the Gods. Also, how is the possibility of Eostre being equated to Idunna in any way related to Idunna possibly being a Vanir? I do find the second option to be an intriguing idea at least. Don't know that I buy it but it's something to poke at.
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:52 pm
Why the Vanir? Why not the Jotnar?
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:38 pm
Sanguina Cruenta Why the Vanir? Why not the Jotnar? Care to elaborate on that thought?
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:45 pm
CalledTheRaven Sanguina Cruenta Why the Vanir? Why not the Jotnar? Care to elaborate on that thought? Not a critique of the Vanir idea, just wondering because it seems more popular for Jotnar to become Aesir than Vanir, and they're also associated with the natural world. Suppose Iðunn is a Jotun maid like Gerðr, wooed by Bragi's song. razz
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:57 pm
Sanguina Cruenta CalledTheRaven Sanguina Cruenta Why the Vanir? Why not the Jotnar? Care to elaborate on that thought? Not a critique of the Vanir idea, just wondering because it seems more popular for Jotnar to become Aesir than Vanir, and they're also associated with the natural world. Suppose Iðunn is a Jotun maid like Gerðr, wooed by Bragi's song. razz I wasn't implying it was. I was just curious to hear why. I honestly think they are both ideas worth exploring to better understand Idunna. I honestly feel that if she were a Vanir there would be some mention though since the war was such a big deal, where as Jotun brides are a pretty common thing.
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:09 pm
CalledTheRaven I wasn't implying it was. I was just curious to hear why. I honestly think they are both ideas worth exploring to better understand Idunna. I honestly feel that if she were a Vanir there would be some mention though since the war was such a big deal, where as Jotun brides are a pretty common thing. Sorry, I think I keep interpreting things people say as being a bit cross today. sweatdrop 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:22 pm
Sanguina Cruenta Sorry, I think I keep interpreting things people say as being a bit cross today. sweatdrop 3nodding S'okay. I seem to have a tendency to come across as aggressive and antagonistic in text anyway. I do my best to mitigate it because it's usually not my intention but it happens.
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Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:21 pm
There's a dude in one of my Facebook groups that's quite annoying me. Apparently a he recently encountered a version of the Thor and Loki in Utgard myth (for the first time it seems) and it's depiction of Thor upset him. Thor is gentle and doesn't have a quick temper, and dang those Christians for portraiying his Brother Thor in a bad light! The whole story is just making fun of him! Also, Odinn has two intact and functional eyes in his head, according to this guy. But even though he totally never sacrificed his eye it's still a cool story about how much Odin would be willing to sacrifice to help mankind gain wisdom!
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:40 pm
CalledTheRaven There's a dude in one of my Facebook groups that's quite annoying me. Apparently a he recently encountered a version of the Thor and Loki in Utgard myth (for the first time it seems) and it's depiction of Thor upset him. Thor is gentle and doesn't have a quick temper, and dang those Christians for portraiying his Brother Thor in a bad light! The whole story is just making fun of him! Also, Odinn has two intact and functional eyes in his head, according to this guy. But even though he totally never sacrificed his eye it's still a cool story about how much Odin would be willing to sacrifice to help mankind gain wisdom! What. What. What even is this guy on about and where is he getting his impressions of the Gods?! Thor gentle?? Odinn with two eyes?! Being a tough warrior is a "bad light"?? Y'know, I think this guy might be happier as a Christian.
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:51 pm
Sanguina Cruenta CalledTheRaven There's a dude in one of my Facebook groups that's quite annoying me. Apparently a he recently encountered a version of the Thor and Loki in Utgard myth (for the first time it seems) and it's depiction of Thor upset him. Thor is gentle and doesn't have a quick temper, and dang those Christians for portraiying his Brother Thor in a bad light! The whole story is just making fun of him! Also, Odinn has two intact and functional eyes in his head, according to this guy. But even though he totally never sacrificed his eye it's still a cool story about how much Odin would be willing to sacrifice to help mankind gain wisdom! What. What. What even is this guy on about and where is he getting his impressions of the Gods?! Thor gentle?? Odinn with two eyes?! Being a tough warrior is a "bad light"?? Y'know, I think this guy might be happier as a Christian. Yeah... He hasn't been responding to my comments or questions. I'm actually pretty okay with him ignoring me.
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Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:36 pm
So I was doing some research the other day. And well I came across a very odd thing for me. Dwarves in Norse mythology are greedy, evil vile things. Yet I cant help but like the buggers. Course that opinion is mostly informed by fantasy things I read. So frankly I am not sure what to think.
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Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:32 am
Ursacus Justinicus Dwarves in Norse mythology are greedy, evil vile things. How so? They don't seem terribly pleasant but I've not gotten that impression of them in the lore.
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Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:51 am
CalledTheRaven Ursacus Justinicus Dwarves in Norse mythology are greedy, evil vile things. How so? They don't seem terribly pleasant but I've not gotten that impression of them in the lore. Really? I can't remember where I saw it but iirc it stated Dwarves were cursed by the Gods and ate the dead. It COULD be I am thinking of another kind of creature from Norse mythos.
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