An Infinite Universe

[Ketsuyin]

Infinity is simply the human word for something that cannot be counted. We could easily say there is an infinite number of grains of sand on the sea shore, because nobody could ever count them all. Saying the universe is infinite if just a way of saying we don't know how far it goes. Because human nature and science requires every value to be listed and understood, the idea of infinity is just a necesary "catch all" for all those things we cannot yet count, calculate, or understand.

Does the universe go on infinitely? I doubt it. But considering the fact we've seen thousands of lightyears away and we know it goes on further, I doubt we will ever reach the "end" of the universe. So for now it is infinite, as far as we can tell.  

[Noetical]

"I told hiim it does, because in infinity it has to repeat because infinity is so big, and he was like...wouldn't there be an infinite number of possibilities so it would never have to repeat?
So I told him once you traveled to the end of infinity, it would repeat, which is not possilbe because inifnity never ends. "


wrong wrong wrong?

"in infinity it has to repeat because infinity is so big"

what kind of retarded logic is that?
infinite means NEVER ENDING/CONTINUOUS, it is not a quantity and can not be quantified!  

[Noetical]

Ketsuyin

Infinity is simply the human word for something that cannot be counted. We could easily say there is an infinite number of grains of sand on the sea shore, because nobody could ever count them all. Saying the universe is infinite if just a way of saying we don't know how far it goes. Because human nature and science requires every value to be listed and understood, the idea of infinity is just a necesary "catch all" for all those things we cannot yet count, calculate, or understand.

Does the universe go on infinitely? I doubt it. But considering the fact we've seen thousands of lightyears away and we know it goes on further, I doubt we will ever reach the "end" of the universe. So for now it is infinite, as far as we can tell.

Wrong?

to say that there is a million grains of sand on the beach is to use a figure of speech, or to exaggerate, it is not correct.

The word does not mean "that which we cant be bothered to count or cant be counted".

Infinite means, INFINITE, goes on forever, has no end. That is what the word means; its definition.

Infinite IS NOT, what you said, you are drawing a false conclusion from a false premise.

What on earth do you people source this information from? Its like you just decide what the definition of a word is and then just roll with it.



Let me ask you this, if the universe is not infinite, and time does not span infinitely backwards and forwards, what was before time, how is the absence of time theoretically possible? What is beyond the edge of the universe? Do you think where the universe ends there is simply nothing? Even if there was nothing, would that not be something? Space already is nothing! its empty space!  

[Niniva]

Quote:

What on earth do you people source this information from? Its like you just decide what the definition of a word is and then just roll with it.

Oh....you mean like.....a dictionary definition is clearly the difinitive source for what a word MEANS? This statement above is exactly what mankind has done upon creating language right from the start. I am not a fan of the symantical arguement either but let me tell you, if you can explain to me how you know what the word means and can prove how you know what it means then I applaud you because you are better than Plato and Aristottle.

Quote:

Infinite means, INFINITE, goes on forever, has no end. That is what the word means; its definition.

Actually thats not true. The word infinite means...not...finite. Which would mean measurable. If it is not measurable, then by definitions (your definition) then simply being that we do not have the correct tools or copacity to measure it makes it.......BY DEFINITION.....infinite. If you truely believe you are the difinitive source on the definition of infinite then you need to go back and read a bit more. For 2000 years no one has been able to understand the concept of infinite, if you expect the rest of us to believe you are the authority on it as your tone suggests here then by all means. Tell what infinite things would look like....describe them for us in a manor in which they are imaginable or concievable so that we all may know what you are thinking of.......problem.....you can't. It's not cognatively possible.

Quote:

Infinite IS NOT, what you said, you are drawing a false conclusion from a false premise.

Premise 1: Infinite means not finite
Premise 2: Finite means measurable
Premise 3: Not measurable would entail either not capable of being measured, either by the current means or intrinsically (which it is can be hotly debated and yet never decided so try as you might you will never be able to claim one is true and not the other with any difinitive proof other than your silly ranting opinions) we accept both COULD be true
Conclusion: Since we cannot come up with a tool to measure the distance of "space" especially since it is relative to motion then space can be described as infinite. Does that mean it goes on forever? No. The one does not logically NECESSARILY lead to the other. To think that it does is simply absurd.

Quote:

Let me ask you this, if the universe is not infinite, and time does not span infinitely backwards and forwards, what was before time, how is the absence of time theoretically possible? What is beyond the edge of the universe? Do you think where the universe ends there is simply nothing? Even if there was nothing, would that not be something? Space already is nothing! its empty space!

I have a better question for you before I answer yours plausibly. Why does it matter? If space has an end that we wouldn't have the ability to get to because we just simply couldn't build the right tool...why would it matter what is beyond it?

Now that that is taken care of let me explain that in sub particle physics there already is an end to space. It is simply the anti-space. Quantum physics describes reality as having several more dimentions than are percievable by humans. We can mathmatically calculate it out to as many dimensions as we want but it is likely (theoretically) that the universe is eleven dimensions, each of those dimensions has different characteristics and if there are a finite number of dimensions then each of those dimensions has parameters....therefore space is limited.

The theory of relativity states also that space (and time) are relative to things in motion, in other words, the faster you travel the smaller the parameters of your percievable dimensions. Light is the fastest thing, and indeed the only thing who's speed does not change depending on the vantage point and so it is theorized that light literally could travel from one end of the universe to the other without time having passed at all. So being that space is not an actual thing, that it is merely the distance between objects then what is beyond space? Nothing, the end of space is the end of existance. It isn't as though space is a thing that sits inside of some kind of floating other substance, if that were true then space would remain constant, but we know that it doesn't. It changes as per how fast you are moving.

Empty space....cannot exist, there is only the measurable distance between objects. There is no such thing as nothing, that word is as impossible to comprehend as infinite.  

[Smartteaser192]

Metal Gear Headshot

Theoretically speaking, if Infinity is given an amount, then it is no longer infinity. Therefore, the equation "Infinity + Infinity = Infinity" is impossible.

Yes. I believe that the universe is infinite. Beyond one's comprehension.

Infinity itself is a symbolic representation of an amount beyond numerical limits. So, it is possible.

Mathematically speaking, Infinity + Infinity = Infinity. No matter what happens to it, it will always be infinity.

"Epicurus argues that the universe is unlimited in size. If the universe were limited in size, says Epicurus, you could go to the end of it, stick your fist out, and where your fist was located would be the new 'limit' of the universe. Of course, this process could be reiterated an endless number of times. Since the universe is unlimited in size, there must also be an unlimited number of atoms and an infinite amount of void. If the number of atoms were limited, then the 'density' of atoms in any region would effectively be zero, and there would be no macroscopic bodies, as there evidently are. And there must be an unlimited amount of void, since without a limitless amount of void, the infinite number of atoms would be unable to move. "
http://www.iep.utm.edu/e/epicur.htm  

[Smartteaser192]

It really seems that critical thinking is an requirement here.

This is what NASA has to say about the Universe.

http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/universe.html

Philosophy meets science. smile

There are schools which doesn't accept infinity as a concept and there are schools which does.

Is this like the nature Vs. nurture or the abortion Debates? Because what ever we say here gets more complex. Especially with Niniva.

If I were you I would look at it in a cosmological aspect.  

[Niniva]

Quote:

"Epicurus argues that the universe is unlimited in size. If the universe were limited in size, says Epicurus, you could go to the end of it, stick your fist out, and where your fist was located would be the new 'limit' of the universe. Of course, this process could be reiterated an endless number of times. Since the universe is unlimited in size, there must also be an unlimited number of atoms and an infinite amount of void. If the number of atoms were limited, then the 'density' of atoms in any region would effectively be zero, and there would be no macroscopic bodies, as there evidently are. And there must be an unlimited amount of void, since without a limitless amount of void, the infinite number of atoms would be unable to move. "

All I have to say about this is that according to relativity this is EXACTLY how we measure "space". It is nothing more than the relative distance between two objects, so yes, when you went to the last object object in a line of objects and then put another object out further you've suddenly increased the amount of space....thats true. This is not logically stating that space is therefor unlimited, all it is stating is that you are putting some measurable distance between two objects. So what happens when there is nothing beyond an object? I haven't an answer for that question accept to say that this is perhaps the closest idea I've come to for a term like "nothing" in it's most literal sense.

Your link to NASA isn't truely informative because "space" isn't expanding. The universe is increasing in the space between objects, that we can see. That does not mean space is expanding, it merely means that this side of space is expanding, it is entirely possible there are things out there so far away that we cannot possibly see them yet which are actually getting closer together is it not? NASA's explanation is a descent one, but it provides nothing but a leiman's description of how the universe "seems" to be behaving. The trouble is, cosmology has to match up with physics after all.  

[Noetical]

Niniva

Quote:

What on earth do you people source this information from? Its like you just decide what the definition of a word is and then just roll with it.

Oh....you mean like.....a dictionary definition is clearly the difinitive source for what a word MEANS? This statement above is exactly what mankind has done upon creating language right from the start. I am not a fan of the symantical arguement either but let me tell you, if you can explain to me how you know what the word means and can prove how you know what it means then I applaud you because you are better than Plato and Aristottle.

Quote:

Infinite means, INFINITE, goes on forever, has no end. That is what the word means; its definition.

Actually thats not true. The word infinite means...not...finite. Which would mean measurable. If it is not measurable, then by definitions (your definition) then simply being that we do not have the correct tools or copacity to measure it makes it.......BY DEFINITION.....infinite. If you truely believe you are the difinitive source on the definition of infinite then you need to go back and read a bit more. For 2000 years no one has been able to understand the concept of infinite, if you expect the rest of us to believe you are the authority on it as your tone suggests here then by all means. Tell what infinite things would look like....describe them for us in a manor in which they are imaginable or concievable so that we all may know what you are thinking of.......problem.....you can't. It's not cognatively possible.

Quote:

Infinite IS NOT, what you said, you are drawing a false conclusion from a false premise.

Premise 1: Infinite means not finite
Premise 2: Finite means measurable
Premise 3: Not measurable would entail either not capable of being measured, either by the current means or intrinsically (which it is can be hotly debated and yet never decided so try as you might you will never be able to claim one is true and not the other with any difinitive proof other than your silly ranting opinions) we accept both COULD be true
Conclusion: Since we cannot come up with a tool to measure the distance of "space" especially since it is relative to motion then space can be described as infinite. Does that mean it goes on forever? No. The one does not logically NECESSARILY lead to the other. To think that it does is simply absurd.

Quote:

Let me ask you this, if the universe is not infinite, and time does not span infinitely backwards and forwards, what was before time, how is the absence of time theoretically possible? What is beyond the edge of the universe? Do you think where the universe ends there is simply nothing? Even if there was nothing, would that not be something? Space already is nothing! its empty space!

I have a better question for you before I answer yours plausibly. Why does it matter? If space has an end that we wouldn't have the ability to get to because we just simply couldn't build the right tool...why would it matter what is beyond it?

Now that that is taken care of let me explain that in sub particle physics there already is an end to space. It is simply the anti-space. Quantum physics describes reality as having several more dimentions than are percievable by humans. We can mathmatically calculate it out to as many dimensions as we want but it is likely (theoretically) that the universe is eleven dimensions, each of those dimensions has different characteristics and if there are a finite number of dimensions then each of those dimensions has parameters....therefore space is limited.

The theory of relativity states also that space (and time) are relative to things in motion, in other words, the faster you travel the smaller the parameters of your percievable dimensions. Light is the fastest thing, and indeed the only thing who's speed does not change depending on the vantage point and so it is theorized that light literally could travel from one end of the universe to the other without time having passed at all. So being that space is not an actual thing, that it is merely the distance between objects then what is beyond space? Nothing, the end of space is the end of existance. It isn't as though space is a thing that sits inside of some kind of floating other substance, if that were true then space would remain constant, but we know that it doesn't. It changes as per how fast you are moving.

Empty space....cannot exist, there is only the measurable distance between objects. There is no such thing as nothing, that word is as impossible to comprehend as infinite.

Finite means
"bounded or limited in magnitude or spatial or temporal extent"
Infinite means
"boundless" "without end" "having no limit" "endless".

its not simply that which cannot be measured, although it obviously cant be. Infinite means boundless, never ending. That's what the word means. The word was created to name/identify that property/idea/concept.

To be Infinite is to be immeasurable, but to be immeasurable is not necessarily to be infinite.  

[Niniva]

Quote:

Finite means
"bounded or limited in magnitude or spatial or temporal extent"
Infinite means
"boundless" "without end" "having no limit" "endless".

its not simply that which cannot be measured, although it obviously cant be. Infinite means boundless, never ending. That's what the word means. The word was created to name/identify that property/idea/concept.

To be Infinite is to be immeasurable, but to be immeasurable is not necessarily to be infinite.

I see. So you think that the dictionary is the end all and be all for the definition of words then huh?

Do I have to get out my philosophy of language tools to teach you about the misdefinitions of words? Honestly bro...immeasurable...boundless..Can you tell me what any of those things are like? Can you describe them to me in detail? Explain to me just how you can even TELL when something is endless? So essentially you think that something is infinite accept.......you can't even tell me what infinite actually is. So you use a word that's defined specifically to be something that you could never say with any certainty any object actually....is?

To be infinite.....may be possible but if something is infinite it is not within the human mind to identify...unless of course you identify something as infinite that in fact has an end.

Seriously, the dictionary definitions of words is nothing more then "common usage". Does that make it the official definition of the word? Does that mean that the "common" person is right when they use it? This is Philosophy, it would be absurd to make the dictionary the absolute judge of how we use terminology and to think so is just silly.

Try again.