|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:25 pm
Core-Ray Look, nowhere in the entire Bible does it EVER say that being gay is a sin. NEVER. Leviticus says you can't have sex with another man in a woman's bed. It never says that you CAN'T have sex with another man, just not in a woman's bed. that's not what my bible says... : Leviticus 20:13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. they must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.' " I'm curious... what version do you have? I don't think people should use the bible as a valid argument against or for homosexuality unless they're going to go old school and quote it in its original Hebrew form. But since none of us speak Hebrew anyway, there's not much we can do. If we are going to speak in pure technical terms about 'sin' and 'homosexuality', I would answer that yes, in the bible Moses was told by God that men should not sleep with other men on sentence of death. But most religious modern people don't follow the bible's word exactly because you're also not supposed to have sex with a woman on her period. Modern religious followings treat the bible as a guide and appoint religious leaders to interpret the information. In my opinion: Does it matter whether it's a sin or not according to this or that religious group?((My bible is the "New International Version" first published in the U.K. in 1979, in case you are wondering. It is a completely new translation made by over a hundred scholars directly from the best available Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts from 1966. According the preface anyway. There are many notes on the pages in which they take note vague translation or words that could not be translated at all. Example: the scandal over the Hebrew word for young woman and virgin being the same.))
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:38 pm
@ Core Ray
I disagree on your idea that all religions are harmful. The main thing that these religions try to teach (at least, Christianity and Islam, dunno about Judaism) is to live a good life and stay out of trouble. The problem with Christianity is that there is no definite and true interpretation of the Bible's passages, and people end up having different ideas on what it says. That's the reason why we have different branches of the faith: Roman Catholic, Protestants, Baptists, and there are even more stem outs of these in each of the branches, and that's why I consider Christianity to be more liberal and accepting compared to other religions... In terms of the faith alone. I hear that in Islam, what the Koran says is definite; no interpretations, no different ideas.. What it says is what it says. That's only from my knowledge though.
People have misinterpretations, and the people who DO think that homosexuality is a sin and all that bullcrap just happen to be most of our Christian parents, who in the old times, were taught by dumb priests the same thing. Since the priest is the representative of God at least during church time, they thought "Why not take his word for it? After all, he IS a priest; he knows more about God than any of us.." And so, this is what they taught to their children, and they end up probably believing the same thing. And I sincerely think that teaching these moronic ideas to the new generation defies Christianity's one golden rule: "Love your neighbors." This is why despite John Paul the 2nd being one of the greatest popes of all time, I don't like him, since he does not support same sex marriage and is actually against it. If I were you, I'd blame it mostly on the teachings of these holy figures... It's so messed up that my brain is hurting from just talking about it! @_@
And atheists can be no better either. In fact, I see some of them homophobic atheists pointing to the Bible for their justifications when they have NO IDEA of what the faith is, what the Bible says and what's it all about. If you ask me, what they're doing is even worse, since it shows how they are truly ignorant and are quick to judge. At least Christians have something to base it off on... "Because the priest said so" or a misinterpretation of the text.
And besides, we aren't supposed to follow the OT anymore. We only look back upon for some valuable teachings like the Ten Commandments and others, but the laws in those passages are and should be disregarded. Those laws were for the Israelites, and not for the modern Christians. That was the covenant with the Hebrews in order to distinguish them from other nations; the covenant that God made with Jesus is the one that all Christians should follow, which is more accepting and open. In the NT, you NEVER see anything against gay people. Never. If we still actually followed the laws of the OT, we wouldn't be able to eat seafood, or even cut our hair since it is forbidden.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:47 pm
Maki Casanova @ Core Ray"...The problem with Christianity is that there is no definite and true interpretation of the Bible's passages, and people end up having different ideas on what it says. That's the reason why we have different branches of the faith: Roman Catholic, Protestants, Baptists, and there are even more stem outs of these in each of the branches, and that's why I consider Christianity to be more liberal and accepting compared to other religions... In terms of the faith alone. I hear that in Islam, what the Koran says is definite; no interpretations, no different ideas.. What it says is what it says. That's only from my knowledge though..." "... In fact, I see some of them homophobic atheists pointing to the Bible for their justifications when they have NO IDEA of what the faith is, what the Bible says and what's it all about. If you ask me, what they're doing is even worse, since it shows how they are truly ignorant and are quick to judge. At least Christians have something to base it off on... "Because the priest said so." " I'd like to present to the discussion that my opinion is that there can be no real solid basis for a religion when a large percentage of its followers do not speak, read or write the language of the scripture they swear by. I am uncertain that the Koran is written in a language still used by the muslims, but it sounds like it. Language barriers are present here, and so some patience should be used during disagreements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:02 pm
Kitahoshi_Hazel Core-Ray Look, nowhere in the entire Bible does it EVER say that being gay is a sin. NEVER. Leviticus says you can't have sex with another man in a woman's bed. It never says that you CAN'T have sex with another man, just not in a woman's bed. that's not what my bible says... : Leviticus 20:13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. they must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.' " I'm curious... what version do you have? I don't think people should use the bible as a valid argument against or for homosexuality unless they're going to go old school and quote it in its original Hebrew form. But since none of us speak Hebrew anyway, there's not much we can do. If we are going to speak in pure technical terms about 'sin' and 'homosexuality', I would answer that yes, in the bible Moses was told by God that men should not sleep with other men on sentence of death. But most religious modern people don't follow the bible's word exactly because you're also not supposed to have sex with a woman on her period. Modern religious followings treat the bible as a guide and appoint religious leaders to interpret the information. In my opinion: Does it matter whether it's a sin or not according to this or that religious group?((My bible is the "New International Version" first published in the U.K. in 1979, in case you are wondering. It is a completely new translation made by over a hundred scholars directly from the best available Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts from 1966. According the preface anyway. There are many notes on the pages in which they take note vague translation or words that could not be translated at all. Example: the scandal over the Hebrew word for young woman and virgin being the same.)) NIV was translated by religious people who had preconceptions about what the stories meant. The actual meaning of 20:13 when the time, place, and original wording are considered is : "Condemns gay ritual sex in a temple and/or males having sex in a woman's bed." Considering that there are dozens of passages in the Bible against temple prostitutes and ANY trappings of any other religion, it makes a lot more sense that it's yet another prohibition against using (in this case male) temple prostitutes. Especially when you consider the other offenses that call for the same punishment religioustolerance.org "Death is sometimes required by the Hebrew Scriptures as the punishment for ritual transgressions. These included the worshiping of other Gods, gathering sticks on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36), improper eating of ritual offerings (Numbers 18:32), ineligible persons acting as priests (Num 3:10). " I know that what the Bible says doesn't matter. It seems to matter an awful lot to other people though. The Hebrew for that passage is "V'ish asher yishkav et zachar mishk'vei ishah to'evah asu shneihem mot yumatu d'meihem bam." It sounds a lot more mystical in Hebrew. Imo. Kitahoshi_Hazel Language barriers are present here, and so some patience should be used during disagreements. *nibbles on Kitahoshi* My patience with this topic ran out 5 years ago. "I am right, I know I am right, I will tell you why I am right and that is all." Is pretty much all I have left. If someone comes up with something NEW though, ah, that would be WONDERFUL. =D I do read everything everyone says, I just.... have heard it all before. I don't expect to change anyone's opinion though. Just give them some food for thought.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:17 pm
*In the interests of avoiding super-long page, double post*
@Maki, I believe any belief in fallacy to be harmful. Any time someone is out of touch with reality, they are not dealing with what is actually going on. Being self-deluded does not make someone a productive member of society. People who are good because it is the right thing to do and not because they want 72 constantly renewing virgins after they die are good people.
People who do it for angelic virgins or just not to burn in hell are not really good people. They spend their whole loves trying to please someone who doesn't exist rather than loving and living their one and only finite life.
This is all there is and it's beautiful and wonderful, even pain is exquisite and religious people spend their whole lives waiting for them to end.
If anyone is curious as to where I am coming from with this, look up "Objectivism (Ayn Rand)"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:30 pm
*sigh* You know what people? I'm kinda tired of arguing about religion now, whether or not a god really does exist and whether or not a religion has a solid basis because of dot dot dot... all we do is go in circles with this debate. Besides, it seems Core will press on with her points, and I'm not much of an argumentative person either.
Final point, all of us think that being gay is NOT a sin, and have different reasons for believing so.
So let's just enjoy our Yuri, eh? x3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:55 pm
I feel bad for people who don't enjoy life because they think there's something wrong with them =/
I used to go to Bible study and the teacher said something about helping a girl who was "struggling with homosexuality", like it was an illness or a disability...
I was like :thinks: Hey can I get her number? I think I can help with that... ehehhe
Doesn't everyone want to "fix" the world? Even though we could never agree on what a "fixed" world would be like. We all want things to be better than they are. We all want to help people who are fighting problems that aren't even problems.
It's just so very LIBERATING to know that there's nothing wrong with you, nothing at all, and so many people don't know this and I wish I could convince them, that just telling them was enough.
-bites Maki- =P
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:33 pm
Hay! No Biting! scream I do the chomping here! scream
Yes, I agree with you Core. They make it seem like a curable disease, when it's actually part of your identity. That's why when I finally realized that being romantically attracted to other girls wasn't wrong at all, and is in fact normal, I was utterly relieved. People may not accept me, but just knowing that there wasn't anything wrong with me was a blessing in itself.
We're never going to have a fixed world... Hitler thought the world would be "washed away of inferiority" if only the Germans were alive. =/ Crazy people here, I tell you.
I do believe though, that acceptance of homosexuality at least in the U.S. will come in a few years while I'm still alive... and young. 3nodding
I hope it comes around in my twenties though... I'd still be searching for love around that time maybe. XD
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:38 pm
Core-Ray ..." I used to go to Bible study and the teacher said something about helping a girl who was "struggling with homosexuality", like it was an illness or a disability... I was like :thinks: Hey can I get her number? I think I can help with that... ehehheDoesn't everyone want to "fix" the world? ..." lol, so you want to fix the world by fixing up lonely singles with a date then? xd I told my boyfriend recently that I had a nightmare he had sex with his male best friend and didn't like me anymore. He looked at me oddly and said: "Why would I sleep with Mike? I don't find him attractive at all. Besides, if anyone is going to leave anyone I can see you leaving me for a girl first." At which point I laughed, feeling reassured. And then I realized that he might be right. neutral
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:32 pm
@ Kitahoshi
Not what I was getting at, but hey it'd be a start!
I meant more helping her realize that it's not wrong/abnormal/sinful to be gay. Yes, I'd probably be hoping for a date, but even if we were totally incompatible, getting her to accept herself would be all I really wanted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 6:07 am
The reason we can't get married is because a bunch of bible thumpers keep ruining it for us. Like out in california, USA, they HAD legalized our marriage, but they took it away because several couples... SEVERAL in the friggen state of california where the concentration of couples is amazingly high, testified in a court of law saying "this is against my religion". sure enough, they took it away.
What ever happened to "separation of CHURCH and STATE?" that's not fair.
This is why I'm agnostic. I'm not atheist. I'm agnostic.
ag·nos·tic /ægˈnɒstɪk/ Show Spelled[ag-nos-tik] Show IPA
–noun
1.a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2.a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
–adjective
3.of or pertaining to agnostics or agnosticism.
4.asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge
but anyways, I believe that if there is a god/buddah/allah/confucious/jesus up there, that he really does accept EVERYONE. It wouldn't be a fair religion to turn to otherwise. lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:17 am
I hate this stupid crap. Im sick of christians being portrayed as homophobic crackheads.
I am a christian, and look where I am right now. I LOVE girl x girl and guy x guy manga. I think its sweet.
So since I am christian, do I have to throw out my yuri, ditch the yaoi, and start calling homosexual/bisexuals horrible disgusting people?
God didn't write the bible. Jesus didn't write the bible. If they did, there would only be one verse. "Love everybody and try your best to be good." Not all of this being gay is bad crap. Do you think god cares about someone loving the same gender when innocent people are getting killed? I doubt it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
