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 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:01 am
Just how many RX-78 units were produced by the end of the One Year War?
I've been confused by the numberings for quite sometime now...
X-78 Federation Test Frame
RX-78-1 Prototype [(Later becomes Heavy Gundam) The unit would also switch hands between several different squads and pilots]
RX-78-2 Gundam
RX-78-3 G3
RX-78NT-1 Alex
RX-78-4 G04
RX-78-5 G05
RX-78-6 Mudrock
RX-78-7 (Incomplete frame)
RX-78-8 (Test frame. Whereabouts or specification never explained.)
RX-78-X Murasame Lab Test-Type Or Titans special
RX-78XX Pixie
Unknown Numbering FA Gundam
FX-705 RX78 Heavy Custom Test Type
I probably left a few out as well. While I know that the Murasame Labs type is non-canon, there were certainly still more then the original six that were fielded.
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:41 am
Grav!ty Just how many RX-78 units were produced by the end of the One Year War?
I've been confused by the numberings for quite sometime now...
X-78 Federation Test Frame
RX-78-1 Prototype [(Later becomes Heavy Gundam) The unit would also switch hands between several different squads and pilots]
RX-78-2 Gundam
RX-78-3 G3
RX-78NT-1 Alex
RX-78-4 G04
RX-78-5 G05
RX-78-6 Mudrock
RX-78-7 (Incomplete frame)
RX-78-8 (Test frame. Whereabouts or specification never explained.)
RX-78-X Murasame Lab Test-Type Or Titans special
RX-78XX Pixie
Unknown Numbering FA Gundam
FX-705 RX78 Heavy Custom Test Type
I probably left a few out as well. While I know that the Murasame Labs type is non-canon, there were certainly still more then the original six that were fielded. First, theres 8 frames, not 6. Test type never existed, 7 and 8 were concepts that was never produced. The original 8 frames... 3 were 78-1, which were sent to side 7 and upgraded to 78-2's. Depending on which source you read, either the scrap of two 78-2's was used, or a surviving 78-2 to create the 78-3, while Amuro's 78-2 was upgraded to the 78-2 MC. gundams 4,5 and 6 were all on those original frames too... 78-X, as far as I know, doesn't use that original frame type. FA Gundam never saw construction, like 7 and 8, it was a design concept. One of the remaining frames was then used for Heavy Gundam, whixch was based on FA G's data. Pixie is non-cannon, and thus can be ignored. This leaves it as possible for the ALEX to take the final 8th frame.
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:19 am
Grav!ty Just how many RX-78 units were produced by the end of the One Year War?
I've been confused by the numberings for quite sometime now...
X-78 Federation Test Frame
RX-78-1 Prototype [(Later becomes Heavy Gundam) The unit would also switch hands between several different squads and pilots]
RX-78-2 Gundam
RX-78-3 G3
RX-78NT-1 Alex
RX-78-4 G04
RX-78-5 G05
RX-78-6 Mudrock
RX-78-7 (Incomplete frame)
RX-78-8 (Test frame. Whereabouts or specification never explained.)
RX-78-X Murasame Lab Test-Type Or Titans special
RX-78XX Pixie
Unknown Numbering FA Gundam
FX-705 RX78 Heavy Custom Test Type
I probably left a few out as well. While I know that the Murasame Labs type is non-canon, there were certainly still more then the original six that were fielded. Ugghhh... This could get complicated... We'll stick with the account that most people know and love, from the MSV kit manuals (not the much simpler, and much different, MG manual version)... In this telling, Jaburo builds eight RX-78 Gundam frames. Of the first three, the manuals indicate, the first two were RX-78-1 Gundams, while the thrid was an RX-78-2. The first two machines are then upgraded to match the third one, and all three were dispatched to Side 7 for testing. What goes on with these five remaining frames at Jaburo is a little sketchy: we don't exactly know what configurations they're in after the first three left. It's indicated that of the remainder, only the first is of the "complete," "standard" variety, but what this means is anyone's guess. Was #4 also an RX-78-2 unit--while the others were RX-78-1s--or was #4 a special, currently unspecified type while the others were RX-78-2s? We don't know for certain. What happens afterward, though, is fairly easy to piece together using this account. Frames #4-6 will become the RX-78-4 Gundam G04, the RX-78-5 Gundam G05, and the RX-78-6 Gundam Mudrock. The fate of frames #7 and #8 are questionable. Ophiuchus FA Gundam never saw construction, like 7 and 8, it was a design concept. This one has been giving us trouble as of late. Some of the old published images from the planned Mobile Suit Gundam MS-X series show FA-78-1 Full Armor Gundams being thrown at Pezun (on January 15, UC 0080), which seems to indicate that the design did, at some point, actually see production. The recent Mobile Suit Gundam Spirits of Zeon video game also gives us a FA-78-1 (or at least an RX-78-1 with FSWS equipment) at Solomon. Not that you can't readily disregard these, though. Quote: Pixie is non-cannon, and thus can be ignored. at least puts it in the "questionable" category, but I like to leave the three RX-78XX Gundam Pixie units in. Doesn't hurt any. mrgreen In fact, Gundam Officials places the RX-78-4, RX-78-5, and RX-78-6 in the same category (IIRC). Quote: This leaves it as possible for the ALEX to take the final 8th frame. If I remember correctly, the RX-78NT-1 Gundam "Alex" was created from scratch at Augusta. Might wanna check up on that, though.
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:25 pm
Here's a question I've been wondering about for some time, now.
By the year 0087, the Earth Federal Forces was still heavily reliant upon the aging RGM-79 design archetype, having created no less then twenty different variants of the machine, ranging from limited-production and trial types to mass-produced frontline mainstays like the RGM-179, RGM-79Q and RGM-79C. In consideration of the fact that the Zeon military was able to produce many different types of Mobile Suits over the course of the One Year War being attributable to...
Better access to resources from the Van Allen belt and the resources satellites already in place...
Development of the first prototype and combat-capable MS occurred in the colonies, rather than on earth...
I can DEFINITELY understand if the Federation was unable to produce more than one universal construction standard during the war. However, after the war, and during the 8-year period leading to the Grypps Conflict, the Federation lost a substantial amount of their space fleet when Solomon was destroyed, and the Titans were keeping the relative piece with their High-Performance prototypes and limited-production types (the Titans Test Team suits). The Federation had plenty of time to begin work on a new archetype during that time. I understand the a lot of money went into developing suits for the Titans, but most of the mass-production designs looked like salvaged Zeon technology popped into suits based off of THEIR ARCHETYPES. The Dijeh? The Hi-Zack? The Hamrabi, Gabthley, MARASAI? Did those look expensive or Earthnoid to any of you?
So why? Why, after 8 years, were they still fielding GM's? GM's stopped going into production in later wars and were replaced by the Jegan and later the Hardygun, Jamesgun, Gunblastor and Gun-EZ, but why did it take so damn long?
Conjecture plz :3
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Distinct Conversationalist
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:08 pm
Probably because AE more or less monopolized th MS heavy development industry. Most MS designed around the earth-sphere are branched from the old Zeonic designs that AE absorbed after OYW.
In fact, the T3 may very well be one of the few development teams that the Federation had up until SNRI. (And after the first Gryps conflict, most T3 members were tried for war crimes. Much of their ultimate MS project were probably absorbed by AE, and would go into the Iota A.K.A. S Gundam.)
Before SNRI, everyone bought their stuff from AE... Zeon, AEUG, EFF, everybody.
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:00 am
There's another thing I find hard to believe...
What was the reasoning behind the implementation of a Wave-Rider-like configuration in so many fourth- and fifth-gen Mobile Suits? I would have assumed that the need for air superiority fighters was eliminated when Mobile Suits became capable of atmospheric flight (either through modular attachments, natural engineering features, or the Minovsky Craft system). I could understand that a Mobile Suit transformed into an air-fighter-like design might be able to travel longer distances faster, but no data is ever given to reflect any change in top speed between MS and MA/Wave-rider modes. Operating distance doesn't factor in, since that's a measure of fuel efficiency and MS never have to worry about fuel of any variety with the exception of Cosmic Era machines.
So, what's the tactical reasoning behind this? Not the "People love to buy transforming mecha toys" excuse that is the most likely explanation (God bless your deviant moneymaking ways, Bandai), but something within the canon that could potentially explain this.
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Distinct Conversationalist
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:30 am
Although an aircraft is inferior to a mobile suit, an aircraft has certain other advantages - a greater degree of aero-dynamics and thrust while on Earth enables it to maneuver to a specific engagement faster, Units like the Bawoo and later in Victory-era where they seperate are easier to changeout repair parts and to transport. If the enemy has to destroy two parts of your unit, there's a 50% chance you'll survive, unlike if they destroyed the complete MS, purely because they can hit the unmanned half!
Plus, let's look at DESTINY for a second here - They demonstrate with the Impulse that these multi-part machines, due to smaller scales, have the ability to do some really dumb but daring surprise maneuvers.
But then again, the original RX-78-2 and other Project V units were multi-part, it's nothing new...
I think I deviated slightly.
To make it simple, MS are human shape as standard. Humans are multi-purpose. They can do most things, to some degree.. However, a machine with a specific purpose can do it's ONE job many times better than a person.
Giving the MS the ability to turn between that form and it's man shape means it's not ONLY multipurpose, but also able to excel in a particular area of combat, in the case mentioned with waveriders, aerial.
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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:06 am
Ooh. I've missed a lot. Erden Edgewood What was the reasoning behind the implementation of a Wave-Rider-like configuration in so many fourth- and fifth-gen Mobile Suits? I would have assumed that the need for air superiority fighters was eliminated when Mobile Suits became capable of atmospheric flight (either through modular attachments, natural engineering features, or the Minovsky Craft system). I could understand that a Mobile Suit transformed into an air-fighter-like design might be able to travel longer distances faster, but no data is ever given to reflect any change in top speed between MS and MA/Wave-rider modes. Operating distance doesn't factor in, since that's a measure of fuel efficiency and MS never have to worry about fuel of any variety with the exception of Cosmic Era machines. So, what's the tactical reasoning behind this? Not the "People love to buy transforming mecha toys" excuse that is the most likely explanation (God bless your deviant moneymaking ways, Bandai), but something within the canon that could potentially explain this. Ophi basically said most of what I would have said, but I'll elaborate a bit. Mobile Suits, in general, are about as aerodynamic as a brick--an unfortunate fact considering that aerodynamic flight would improve not only a Mobile Suit's range of operation but also the time it took to find and engage the enemy. Early flight-type, non-transforming Mobile Suits basically relied on pure thrust to stay airborne, which greatly reduced their flight range. Eventually this problem was solved (in great part) by making the Mobile Suit able to transform into an aerodynamic flight mode. Take the NRX-044 Asshimar, for instance. Of course the problem could also be solved using such devices as the Minovsky Craft System, but this system was originally too bulky to fit on standard-sized Mobile Suits. Don't let the official stats fool you: they're often contradictory and subject to change on a moment's notice. Quote: I can DEFINITELY understand if the Federation was unable to produce more than one universal construction standard during the war. However, after the war, and during the 8-year period leading to the Grypps Conflict, the Federation lost a substantial amount of their space fleet when Solomon was destroyed, and the Titans were keeping the relative piece with their High-Performance prototypes and limited-production types (the Titans Test Team suits). The Federation had plenty of time to begin work on a new archetype during that time. I understand the a lot of money went into developing suits for the Titans, but most of the mass-production designs looked like salvaged Zeon technology popped into suits based off of THEIR ARCHETYPES. The Dijeh? The Hi-Zack? The Hamrabi, Gabthley, MARASAI? Did those look expensive or Earthnoid to any of you? As has been pointed out, some of these designs (the RMS-106 Hizack, the RMS-108 Marasai) were the work of Anaheim Electronics. Many of AE's Mobile Suit designers were former Zeonic Company employees (Zeonic was absorbed by AE), and they designed these Mobile Suits purposefully to look Zeonic in origin. These designs didn't always take so well. For instance, in Mobile Suit Gundam Advance of Zeta, Lieutenant Carl Matsubara is outraged by the appearance of the YRMS-106 Hizack that the Black Otter team is chosen to test. Quote: So why? Why, after 8 years, were they still fielding GM's? GM's stopped going into production in later wars and were replaced by the Jegan and later the Hardygun, Jamesgun, Gunblastor and Gun-EZ, but why did it take so damn long? Conjecture plz :3 Because the Earth Federation is lazy.They don't care to expend their resources updating their military unless there is a clear and present danger. That's why the Earth Federation was happy to stick around with the RGM-79R GM II up until the Gryps Conflict; that's also why they're willing to sit around with the RGM-89 Jegan for thirty years until the Crossbone Vanguard comes calling; that's why they're still using the RGM-119 Jamesgun and RGM-122 Javelin to combat the Zanscare Empire.
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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:44 pm
On the subject of a GM...
Mark Simmons once pointed out that the feds kept them in service because they're easy to maintain, repair and upgrade.
It's possible for a GM from the one year war to be upgraded to a GM Kai, survive through the 0083 incident, be further refined into a GM II, survive the entire Gryps conflict, and then be refitted to a GM III type, survive THAT war, and be in service right up until it's replacement mobile suit the Jegan arrived on the scene in large numbers.
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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:55 pm
Though non-canon, it seems that the GM series continual to meet field service even during CCA. As during the Meaningless War in U.C.0091, GM Cannons (RGM-90C GM Cannon IV) were still employed. As with the Nero.
New question. What exactly was the problem with Camille's Zeta that drove AE's engineering department crazy? Enough so that they designed their own variant, the Z Plus? What's different about the Z Plus? To most people, their architecture is about the same...
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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:06 pm
Grav!ty Though non-canon, it seems that the GM series continual to meet field service even during CCA. As during the Meaningless War in U.C.0091, GM Cannons (RGM-90C GM Cannon IV) were still employed. As with the Nero.
New question. What exactly was the problem with Camille's Zeta that drove AE's engineering department crazy? Enough so that they designed their own variant, the Z Plus? What's different about the Z Plus? To most people, their architecture is about the same... Camille drove people mad? That's not a first Regardless, I thought the Zeta Plus models from A-C were specialized... Like I remember the A model being only atmospheric (hence, the A, I guess) and C were deployed in space (although could be used in the atmosphere as well)
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