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 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:02 am
It certainly seems to work but I doubt anyone really cares. If you've got 7 mana and a resolved teferi, chances are you already have the game. The combo really seems like a "win more" situation.
That being said, it's an entertaining soft lock for people who like to be annoying.
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:38 am
Zeddicuus Definitely a cheap a** win condition. I'd feel dirty playing that way. Then again, I don't play at tournaments anymore so that's why I wouldn't do it, heheh. Be interesting with Dralnu in there though. Odds are you'd have used some sorceries and instants before EotS hits play and you can recycle them into it through Dralnu. Or use the Sunforger with loads of instants. that could make things entertaining. Maybe it's just my sleep lacking brain talking (I'm up late feeding my son. Yayz) but that might make for something...interesting... Blue/Black with Red/White splash? Boros has some nice blast spells after all... I'll have to reread this post later in the afternoon/evening to remember this and see if it can be done. Might make large scale casual games far more entertaining to me than I already try to make them. I don't think its going to work with Dralnu - the whole removal from the game thing will kinda fix that.
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:18 am
I was thinking more on the line of flashbacking the ones I used before Dralnu hit play. He'll run out of ammo relatively fast with EotS out, but hey, I get to use them again and put them into the Eye to be triggered by more.
Yeah, I don't think it'll work too hot. But what the Hell, I have an Eye and Dralnu that are looking at me with sad sad puppy eyes, waiting to be played with.
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:17 pm
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see a combo here. I see Teferi, doing what Teferi does, and EotS, doing what EotS does, and not a whole lot of meaningful interaction. Teferi is, by himself, a soft lock. EotS, by itself, is a good way to spiral the game out of control, and into a quick end.
Am I missing something? Because to me, a combo requires two cards to pull off a 2+2=5 sort of synergy, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:58 pm
The whole is your opponent can never play sorcery or instant spells. Not even on their turn. They are stuck with only creature, enchantment and artifact.
I had some trouble making sense of it too until I spent an entire day at work mulling it over.
The way it goes is (this is considering that you have Teferi and EotS in play):
On their turn:
1: opponent plays sorcery/instant on their turn
2: EotS removes it from the game
3: Normally at this point they have the option to play any instant/sorery removed from the game. Note it does not say the spell is put into play, but that you may play it.
4: Teferi denies this, as this ability lets the player play them at instant speed, even the sorceries. Teferi states an opponent may only play instants/sorceries when they can play a sorcery. This will keep the opponent from being able to play them at all as EotS's ability is at instant speed.
On Your Turn:
They can't play instants, period. You can, have it removed from the game and may play a copy of any or all instants/sorceries removed from EotS.
Extirpate is whorish at this point, as the EotS can remove it. It's a triggered ability so Split Second can't stop it
Hopefully that helps clear it up.
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:14 pm
LiaThistle You've got the EotS right. Zeddicuus It does not list that copies will activate. That's the same for Storm. If Storm counted copies played, Storm would Storm itself and be severely broken. I've asked about this one because I thought the same thing for Grapeshot. However, not Storm. Storm triggers off of spells played...but the copies it makes go directly onto the stack, and thus, are not played. As Liq pointed out a while back, Isochron Scepter's copies are played - meaning they add to a Storm count. Phrasing is everything with Storm. And before you ask, yes, Storm would trigger off of EotS. Perhaps that's why it got named that - because it can be a focal point for Storm decks. wow that's awesome. i was told storm count does not increase for copies played by eots... if that's what you meant. i seriously need to meet and befriend a judge. so many questions and so many different opinions are floating around everywhere and i have no way to know for sure. unless you know a way. if you do, please tell me? does a spell cast that has a storm value remember it's storm value after it is removed from play and re-cast with eots? i mean, if i cast shock then grapeshot and then shock again (with eots in play) how much damage will that do? does it deal 2 (shock) + 2 (grapeshot storm count 1) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (second shock cast) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (grapeshot remembering it's original storm count of 2) or does it deal 2 (shock) + 2 (grapeshot storm count 1) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (second shock cast) + 5 (copy of grapeshot getting a new storm count of 4)
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:01 pm
Zeddicuus The whole is your opponent can never play sorcery or instant spells. Not even on their turn. They are stuck with only creature, enchantment and artifact. I had some trouble making sense of it too until I spent an entire day at work mulling it over. The way it goes is (this is considering that you have Teferi and EotS in play): On their turn: 1: opponent plays sorcery/instant on their turn 2: EotS removes it from the game 3: Normally at this point they have the option to play any instant/sorery removed from the game. Note it does not say the spell is put into play, but that you may play it. 4: Teferi denies this, as this ability lets the player play them at instant speed, even the sorceries. Teferi states an opponent may only play instants/sorceries when they can play a sorcery. This will keep the opponent from being able to play them at all as EotS's ability is at instant speed. On Your Turn: They can't play instants, period. You can, have it removed from the game and may play a copy of any or all instants/sorceries removed from EotS. Extirpate is whorish at this point, as the EotS can remove it. It's a triggered ability so Split Second can't stop it Hopefully that helps clear it up. It works up until step 4. Because step 4 doesn't work. Teferi's ability is 'Each opponent can play spells only any time he or she could play a sorcery.' That means he can play spells only during his main phases (when he could normally play sorceries). He can play the spell, trigger EotS, and then play all of the copied spells, whether instants or sorceries, during his main phase. What speed EotS activates at is irrelevant. Teferi only cares about phases. Teferi's second ability checks to see if it's your opponent's main phase. If it is, then he says 'OK, you can play spells now', and ignores him until phase change. Like I said before, there's no combo here. They each just do what they do.
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:36 pm
Talaisan Zeddicuus The whole is your opponent can never play sorcery or instant spells. Not even on their turn. They are stuck with only creature, enchantment and artifact. I had some trouble making sense of it too until I spent an entire day at work mulling it over. The way it goes is (this is considering that you have Teferi and EotS in play): On their turn: 1: opponent plays sorcery/instant on their turn 2: EotS removes it from the game 3: Normally at this point they have the option to play any instant/sorery removed from the game. Note it does not say the spell is put into play, but that you may play it. 4: Teferi denies this, as this ability lets the player play them at instant speed, even the sorceries. Teferi states an opponent may only play instants/sorceries when they can play a sorcery. This will keep the opponent from being able to play them at all as EotS's ability is at instant speed. On Your Turn: They can't play instants, period. You can, have it removed from the game and may play a copy of any or all instants/sorceries removed from EotS. Extirpate is whorish at this point, as the EotS can remove it. It's a triggered ability so Split Second can't stop it Hopefully that helps clear it up. It works up until step 4. Because step 4 doesn't work. Teferi's ability is 'Each opponent can play spells only any time he or she could play a sorcery.' That means he can play spells only during his main phases (when he could normally play sorceries). He can play the spell, trigger EotS, and then play all of the copied spells, whether instants or sorceries, during his main phase. What speed EotS activates at is irrelevant. Teferi only cares about phases. Teferi's second ability checks to see if it's your opponent's main phase. If it is, then he says 'OK, you can play spells now', and ignores him until phase change. Like I said before, there's no combo here. They each just do what they do. you can't place a sorcery on top of something else on the stack. if tef only wanted to control what phase you could play on, tef would read "only during main phase" but tef reads "only when you could play a sorcery". so it does prevent casting instants or sorceries, as long as the copies played by eots trigger tef, which everyone seems to think it does (so i can't really argue)
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:44 am
super.funk Talaisan Zeddicuus The whole is your opponent can never play sorcery or instant spells. Not even on their turn. They are stuck with only creature, enchantment and artifact. I had some trouble making sense of it too until I spent an entire day at work mulling it over. The way it goes is (this is considering that you have Teferi and EotS in play): On their turn: 1: opponent plays sorcery/instant on their turn 2: EotS removes it from the game 3: Normally at this point they have the option to play any instant/sorery removed from the game. Note it does not say the spell is put into play, but that you may play it. 4: Teferi denies this, as this ability lets the player play them at instant speed, even the sorceries. Teferi states an opponent may only play instants/sorceries when they can play a sorcery. This will keep the opponent from being able to play them at all as EotS's ability is at instant speed. On Your Turn: They can't play instants, period. You can, have it removed from the game and may play a copy of any or all instants/sorceries removed from EotS. Extirpate is whorish at this point, as the EotS can remove it. It's a triggered ability so Split Second can't stop it Hopefully that helps clear it up. It works up until step 4. Because step 4 doesn't work. Teferi's ability is 'Each opponent can play spells only any time he or she could play a sorcery.' That means he can play spells only during his main phases (when he could normally play sorceries). He can play the spell, trigger EotS, and then play all of the copied spells, whether instants or sorceries, during his main phase. What speed EotS activates at is irrelevant. Teferi only cares about phases. Teferi's second ability checks to see if it's your opponent's main phase. If it is, then he says 'OK, you can play spells now', and ignores him until phase change. Like I said before, there's no combo here. They each just do what they do. you can't place a sorcery on top of something else on the stack. if tef only wanted to control what phase you could play on, tef would read "only during main phase" but tef reads "only when you could play a sorcery". so it does prevent casting instants or sorceries, as long as the copies played by eots trigger tef, which everyone seems to think it does (so i can't really argue) I bloody hate when they make rules more confusing than they have to be. Having triggered abilities go on the stack is just asinine, and only had to be done because somebody tried to cheat the stack and said 'but the rules don't say I can't'. Nothing Triggers Tef. Tef's 2 is a state based ability. But goddamnit, if they could have made that combo any less intuitive, they'd have had to print it in swahili. The only way to make sense of it is to have all of the rulings for both cards sitting in front of you, and STARE AT IT for an hour.
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:04 pm
super.funk LiaThistle You've got the EotS right. Zeddicuus It does not list that copies will activate. That's the same for Storm. If Storm counted copies played, Storm would Storm itself and be severely broken. I've asked about this one because I thought the same thing for Grapeshot. However, not Storm. Storm triggers off of spells played...but the copies it makes go directly onto the stack, and thus, are not played. As Liq pointed out a while back, Isochron Scepter's copies are played - meaning they add to a Storm count. Phrasing is everything with Storm. And before you ask, yes, Storm would trigger off of EotS. Perhaps that's why it got named that - because it can be a focal point for Storm decks. wow that's awesome. i was told storm count does not increase for copies played by eots... if that's what you meant. i seriously need to meet and befriend a judge. so many questions and so many different opinions are floating around everywhere and i have no way to know for sure. unless you know a way. if you do, please tell me? does a spell cast that has a storm value remember it's storm value after it is removed from play and re-cast with eots? i mean, if i cast shock then grapeshot and then shock again (with eots in play) how much damage will that do? does it deal 2 (shock) + 2 (grapeshot storm count 1) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (second shock cast) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (grapeshot remembering it's original storm count of 2) or does it deal 2 (shock) + 2 (grapeshot storm count 1) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (second shock cast) + 5 (copy of grapeshot getting a new storm count of 4) Okay, let's do this the slow way. Here's the order of spells: Shock, Grapeshot, Shock. Assuming empty EotS. First: Shock. Result: Shock played, EotS removes. EotS copies - 2 damage dealt. Total thus far: 2 damage. Second: Grapeshot. Result: Grapeshot played, EotS removes. EotS copies - Shock - 2 damage. Grapeshot (2 spells) - 2 damage. Total thus far: 6 damage. Third: Shock (as a Sorcery) Result: Shock played, EotS removes. EotS copies - Shock (1) - 2 damage. Grapeshot (4 spells) - 4 damage. Shock (2) - 2 damage. Total thus far: 14 damage. Now, if you play Shock as an instant, we get into all sorts of timing issues. You could play it when the EotS has removed the Grapeshot and has it on the stack for copying, you could respond to any of the spell being copied (particularly Grapeshot, so you could add another spell copy and do 1 more damage), and several other options, all of which make it very confusing. Optimum damage, however, rests in playing Shock->Grapeshot->respond with Shock (still triggers Grapeshot twice, but the second one gets an extra spell). Got that? If you do, congradulations. If you don't, don't feel bad - its fairly confusing. Wait....since it doesn't say in order, then you could play both the Shocks before the second Grapeshot, doing 15 damage. That'd be useful.
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:43 pm
super.funk LiaThistle You've got the EotS right. Zeddicuus It does not list that copies will activate. That's the same for Storm. If Storm counted copies played, Storm would Storm itself and be severely broken. I've asked about this one because I thought the same thing for Grapeshot. However, not Storm. Storm triggers off of spells played...but the copies it makes go directly onto the stack, and thus, are not played. As Liq pointed out a while back, Isochron Scepter's copies are played - meaning they add to a Storm count. Phrasing is everything with Storm. And before you ask, yes, Storm would trigger off of EotS. Perhaps that's why it got named that - because it can be a focal point for Storm decks. wow that's awesome. i was told storm count does not increase for copies played by eots... if that's what you meant. i seriously need to meet and befriend a judge. so many questions and so many different opinions are floating around everywhere and i have no way to know for sure. unless you know a way. if you do, please tell me? does a spell cast that has a storm value remember it's storm value after it is removed from play and re-cast with eots? i mean, if i cast shock then grapeshot and then shock again (with eots in play) how much damage will that do? does it deal 2 (shock) + 2 (grapeshot storm count 1) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (second shock cast) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (grapeshot remembering it's original storm count of 2) or does it deal 2 (shock) + 2 (grapeshot storm count 1) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (second shock cast) + 5 (copy of grapeshot getting a new storm count of 4) Shock 1 - Removed and copied - 2 Damage Grapeshot - Removed. Copy Shock - 2, Copy Grapeshot (Storm count of 2) - 3 Shock 2 - Removed. Copy Shock - 2, copy shock - 2, copy grapeshot (storm count of 5) - 6 Total - 17 damage. Shock Grapeshot Grapeshot turns out to be 2+2+3+2+5+6=18 Damage Grapeshot x 3 comes out as 1+2+3+4+5+6 for 21. Why stop there? If you're the player with Teferi, suspend a Rift Bolt or two. Untap Upkeep Rift Bolt 1 - 3 Rift Bolt 2 - 3+3 Draw Main 1 Shock 1 - 2+3+3 Grapeshot - 3+3+2+10 Aaaaaand that's 35 to the dome for the huge cost of RR on one turn and RR1 the next. Even if your opponent is hiding behind an Ivory Mask, you can sweep his board clean with all of that.
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:24 pm
LiaThistle super.funk LiaThistle You've got the EotS right. Zeddicuus It does not list that copies will activate. That's the same for Storm. If Storm counted copies played, Storm would Storm itself and be severely broken. I've asked about this one because I thought the same thing for Grapeshot. However, not Storm. Storm triggers off of spells played...but the copies it makes go directly onto the stack, and thus, are not played. As Liq pointed out a while back, Isochron Scepter's copies are played - meaning they add to a Storm count. Phrasing is everything with Storm. And before you ask, yes, Storm would trigger off of EotS. Perhaps that's why it got named that - because it can be a focal point for Storm decks. wow that's awesome. i was told storm count does not increase for copies played by eots... if that's what you meant. i seriously need to meet and befriend a judge. so many questions and so many different opinions are floating around everywhere and i have no way to know for sure. unless you know a way. if you do, please tell me? does a spell cast that has a storm value remember it's storm value after it is removed from play and re-cast with eots? i mean, if i cast shock then grapeshot and then shock again (with eots in play) how much damage will that do? does it deal 2 (shock) + 2 (grapeshot storm count 1) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (second shock cast) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (grapeshot remembering it's original storm count of 2) or does it deal 2 (shock) + 2 (grapeshot storm count 1) + 2 (copy of shock) + 2 (second shock cast) + 5 (copy of grapeshot getting a new storm count of 4) Okay, let's do this the slow way. Here's the order of spells: Shock, Grapeshot, Shock. Assuming empty EotS. First: Shock. Result: Shock played, EotS removes. EotS copies - 2 damage dealt. Total thus far: 2 damage. Second: Grapeshot. Result: Grapeshot played, EotS removes. EotS copies - Shock - 2 damage. Grapeshot (2 spells) - 2 damage. Total thus far: 6 damage. Third: Shock (as a Sorcery) Result: Shock played, EotS removes. EotS copies - Shock (1) - 2 damage. Grapeshot (4 spells) - 4 damage. Shock (2) - 2 damage. Total thus far: 14 damage. Now, if you play Shock as an instant, we get into all sorts of timing issues. You could play it when the EotS has removed the Grapeshot and has it on the stack for copying, you could respond to any of the spell being copied (particularly Grapeshot, so you could add another spell copy and do 1 more damage), and several other options, all of which make it very confusing. Optimum damage, however, rests in playing Shock->Grapeshot->respond with Shock (still triggers Grapeshot twice, but the second one gets an extra spell). Got that? If you do, congradulations. If you don't, don't feel bad - its fairly confusing. Wait....since it doesn't say in order, then you could play both the Shocks before the second Grapeshot, doing 15 damage. That'd be useful. thanks guys, this is lots of clarification.
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:48 pm
This sorta reminds me of a Tron deck.
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:37 pm
Tron would be a good way to ramp up the mana for EotS. I think turn 5 is the earliest you could go off, though. Turn 1, play tron piece. Turn 2, play tron piece, izzet signet. turn 3, play tron piece, izzet signet. turn 4 , play island , EotS Turn 5: Play shock (SC 1), shock removed, copied. Play copy (SC 2), copy resolves for 2 damage. Play shock #2 (SC 3), shock #2 removed, shock, shock copied, play copies (SC 5), copies resolve for 4 damage (6 damage). Play Grapeshot, Grapeshot's storm ability triggers, 5 grapeshot copies put on the stack, grapeshot removed, shock, shock, GS copied (sc 6). Play shock copies (SC cool , play grapeshot copy, GS copy's storm triggers, put 8 GS copies on the stack. 14 (5+8+1) Grapeshots and 2 shocks resolve for 18 damage. Total damage: 24. Slower and less reliable than dragonstorm. Nontheless, 24 damage from 2 shocks and a GS is pretty impressive. Incidently, these quotes are from Star City Games' "Ask the Judge" archive: Quote: Q: What happens when I play Dragonstorm and there is an Eye of the Storm in play? A: When you play Dragonstorm, its Storm ability will trigger and Eye of the Storm's ability will trigger. The order that these triggers go on the stack doesn't really matter. When the Storm trigger resolves, you will put a copy of Dragonstorm on the stack for each spell that was played before the original Dragonstorm was played. Putting these copies on the stack will not trigger Eye of the Storm. When the Eye of the Storm's triggered ability resolves, you will counter the original Dragonstorm ability on the stack and remove it from the game. You will then be able to play all of the cards that have been removed from the game by Eye of the Storm. When you play the removed Dragonstorm card its Storm ability will trigger. If you play this removed Dragonstorm last, then the new storm count will include the initial Dragonstorm and all of the other instants and sorceries that you have just played when the Eye of the Storm ability resolved. Quote: Q: I recently had a rules problem that isn't a common problem. I had Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and an Eye of the Storm with multiple spells "imprinted" on it. My opponent played the Seek half of Hide / Seek; it was removed by Eye of the Storm, and he began playing all the spells on Eye of the Storm. I later wondered if Teferi would prevent him from playing more than one spells—if any— since he should have to play them as sorceries. Would he have been able to copy spells from Eye of the Storm? If so, how many? A: You are correct that this was not handled correctly. However, your opponent would not be limited to playing just one of these spells; he would not be able to play any. Normally when Eye of the Storm's triggered ability, resolves a copy of each of the removed cards will be made and the controller of the spell that triggered Eye of the Storm can play these copies. All of this happens during the resolution of the triggered ability, which works, because Eye of the Storm's ability bends the rules and make it possible. However with Teferi in play, your opponent will be prevented from playing any of these copies. The former quote deals with the interaction between EotS and the Storm mechanic. The latter with the Teferi combo that prompted the thread. I realize the questions had been more or less resolved but I thought I might as well put these up while the post is at the top anyway.
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:44 pm
Never hurts to clarify things.
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