The Soul

[Noetical]

One thing that has troubled me is, I took to believing in the existence of the soul due to certain experiences and feelings I’ve had, for some reason i have trouble believing my identity exists only within something physical but perhaps this is just one of those things that toys with the human mind, like the idea of space going on forever, or trying to imagine a colour you have never seen. Anyway, now that they have managed to clone sheep’s and such, does that disprove the existence of a soul? Is making a clone of an animal the same as having identical twins in that they are both extremely similar but do in fact have different identities? Are our identities not in fact our souls but simply what we have become due to life experience?

your thoughts please  

[Zephyr]

I believe my soul is my true identity and through it's many lifetimes in this reality or any other for that matter it learns and grows and becomes more specifically defined. As for cloning I'd say it's entirely valid to say that two different souls can occupy two different bodies with the same genetic makeup. The soul is not dependant on the body it inhabits. Bodies are simply vessels to allow our souls to express themselves in different ways.  

[Noetical]

so you believe in reincarnation? yes i agree that two different souls can exist within two bodies that are genetically the same, but what im saying is, if we can artificially create a body, aka cloneing.. doesnt that interfere with the idea of having a soul.. can you artificially create a soul? or does a soul somehow just sneak into the clone after we make it  

[Fogwolf]

When we clone, we don't actually artifically create a body.

You take two cells - one ovum and one bodily cell that contains an animal's complete gemone. You then extract the complete DNA from the bodily cell and implant it into the ovum. The ovum is then essentially like any naturally fertilised ovum - it contains a complete genome. It then goes through all of its natural stages from cell to infant animal naturally.

Of course, asking where a soul comes into this is perfectly valid, but really, shouldn't we be asking that anyway? Is there something special about fertilisation that sparks a soul?

And if it is fertilisation, then identical twins pose a problem anyway, since they separate after fertilisation.  

[Noetical]

thanks so much for your input, thats very interesting  

[AbrAbraxas]

very interesting, perhaps you might want to define what you mean by soul. for me i think about two parts of my being as corresponding to what is called soul. one what is called is the emotional body, it concerns the middle range of the spectrum of being between the dense physical body and the airy mental body. this emotional body is what experiences sensations like fear, anger, love, power, enjoyment, agony and many more. the physical body feels, hears, tastes, and sees. but the mind processes sight and deals with how we interpret the data from the other two bodies and also acts as a filter separating the parts of being that we will be conscious of and unconscious of. the mind is conditioned by experience, learning and as with the other bodies can be mastered through discipline. now this brings us to the identity factor. is it an illusion, i cannot say for certain, but i feel that above these manifestations is a higher-self and above that a universal self. the identity of a person, the part that makes me me and you you and drives us to certain inclinations may lie in the mind and some may come from a higher benevolence, from the higher self. the higher self is really the same as the universal self yet our connection to it is the important part, it is the part that is partially individualized yet essentially universal. so what i have called the higher self is really our connecting link the the universal self and is the second part of the being that i consider analogous to the soul.
from your question i can see also that you wonder if our soul remains after our body no longer holds it and i feel that it can but that it does not necessarily happen. ancient Chinese and Tibetan stories tell of the possibility of remaining awake through death, that is to remain conscious. perhaps if we develop a discipline that allows us to retain our 'ethereal shape' after the physical body is dead, that strengthens our subtle bodies, our body of light if we could use this body to travel at will, like astral projection, before death then perhaps we could exist without our bodies after death.
as for cloning i agree with fogwolf and add that any living being has a connection to the universal self specific for its species and perhaps this can be seen in the dna, a coded matrix of information. there are some who think that you can change your own being by consciously manipulating your dna... who knows.
good day  

[khuan]

Quote:

One thing that has troubled me is, I took to believing in the existence of the soul due to certain experiences and feelings I’ve had, for reason i have trouble believing my identity exists only within something physical but perhaps this is just one of those things that toys with the human mind, like the idea of space going on forever, or trying to imagine a colour you have never seen. Anyway, now that they have managed to clone sheep’s and such, does that disprove the existence of a soul? Is making a clone of an animal the same as having identical twins in that they are both extremely similar but do in fact have different identities? Are our identities not in fact our souls but simply what we have become due to life experience?

your thoughts please

Cloned animals are essentially the same as identical twins, so if there is a soul, which I don't think there is, then this wouldn't disprove it. But more than that, when you say you have had trouble believing that you identity only exists within something physical, if you mean that you don't like the idea or you find it unlikely for other reasons. I mean, I don't believe in a soul. I used to believe in a soul, but the more I thought about it the more it seemed that I believed in it because I wanted to and because I had been told by society that there is a soul, and not because there was a good substantial reason to believe in it.  

[CaboCor]

To me, the soul is deep within the heart....Only in a bad situations, ur Soul will show its tru potential...  

[Pifflestick]

Stupid question. First off, animals don't have souls, they don't go to heaven. Second, a clone is created by human hands and not by the hands of God so it dosn't have a soul, it dosn't mean the soul dosn't exist.  

[27x]

I think my soul is pissed off at me, cause he woln't share my body.  

[AbrAbraxas]

Pifflestick

Stupid question. First off, animals don't have souls, they don't go to heaven. Second, a clone is created by human hands and not by the hands of God so it dosn't have a soul, it dosn't mean the soul dosn't exist.

first off, there no stupid questions, only...

second, are children created by the hands of god or the loins and lust of men and women. and then what of in vitro fertilization, another heathen abomination i suppose.
and more importantly, if you are so sure that animals have no souls, then tell me, what is a soul? how can any living things live without the animating spark of divinity? and they dont goto heaven, are you then implying reincarnation? that animals must work thier way up the line to get to heaven?
you seem so sure of very subtle things, things that you have no witness of.