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Kitsune: Looking for serious answers

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aaarhus

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:36 pm


Ok people... I'm pretty much fully expecting lots of "this is bullshit" type of responses because I know people here don't appreciate suspicious things. sweatdrop

Alright... I have recently added a person to my IM list... we have lots of similar interests and it was a site I had been lurking on when I saw he mentioned the Nintendo DS... so of course I wanted to talk.
We chatted and found out there were many interests we shared, one of which was otherkin.

He believes he is a kitsune... and... well, through a series of things I made up the imagery of a kitsune... and... just how fast I had come up with the look made me seriously wonder, and anyway I did a wikipedia search on kitsune... hitting a few interesting things.

On a side note... I didn't realize that tofu, a food I like, is said to be a favorite of kitsune.

The whole series of events though leading to it... I started to try to honestly ask myself if I thought I was a kitsune in a past life or spiritually... yet I just want people to be aware that, yes, it's very sudden to assume anything. It just struck me particularly odd about how the things pieced together like that.

While I'm asking for opinions on that (which... in itself wouldn't mean much of anything in the short or long run... sweatdrop ), I also want to know if there are any kitsune in this guild, and if anyone knows anything about this race or whatnot...

For the love of god no Naruto or anime mentions.

Earlier today, 10/21,
I can't remember exactly how long ago... but... I'm sure in the past month I met up with someone that claims to be an otherkin kitsune. We both had similar interests, and I happened to find him on a forum, thus why we started chatting.

One thing had led to another, and I ended up making up a kitsune on a story we were doing. Just for fun... of course.
That's sort of where things started... when I was thinking of colors, I was going to just do silver when I had said that... and then there was this rush of details that came to mind... a whole entire color scheme just shot into my head... I only thought "how convenient" at the time.

Later on... like the next day or so, I read up on kitsune on Wikipedia. I started reading on down through the information... and in there I found some coincidence...
Yes, I'm aware that many people like tofu, and probably soy products as well. I do... I know that. I love soy milk.
It appears that the sources say kitsune do as well. It just struck me a bit odd. I've only had tofu once... and... it was rather good. My stepfather makes a comment of how odd it is to like something without taste to it...

So... it was rather odd to me... I couldn't forget about that, and eventually I tried to find more information and came across a page of research someone had put together from many different sources. I started to read all of it... I began to scan through, excited... like I was on the trail of something very important. And... there were interesting bits in there that really did make me... well...

What I found were definitely two things... one was a list of traits. I matched up on nearly all of these... the only two was my take on revenge (I find it hard to hold a grudge... I just like getting even for fun), and of helping and receiving help (I actively go to co-workers asking if they need anything... and I try to not be afraid to ask for help if needing it, but would rather go without).
The other traits I hit nearly head on... I'm attached to my family in ways they don't understand...
It's... really hard to say on the traits though. I feel like trying to match things up to them in vain isn't going to prove a thing... so... I would try to give examples but perhaps at a later date. It's just the list seems to relate to the morals I've kept to myself... trying to help out in general to make things run a bit more smoothly.

The second thing is that I have this one view of death... I don't want to end up in a final resting place, which I mean like heaven or hell... and I don't know about reincarnation. I would possibly, if given the choice, much rather stay and try to protect and watch over the family of mine...
I nearly freaked when I saw this then... a paragraph under a "possession" section, talking of how a kitsune would walk among people, etc.
It was saying in one of the sections that a kitsune could possess an unborn child, or a dead person. BUT, on the part of dieing... it was saying something else could possibly happen... the person could become a kitsune at death, and it breaks the cycle of birth - life - death - reincarnation. Very odd.

There's a few more things I want to say before I submit this though... one of these is a personal belief I have...
Honestly... I haven't felt a connection to any gods or goddesses, deities... nothing. My belief is I have nothing to do with them in the event they do exist... because to me I haven't seen anything suggest otherwise.
Talking with a friend they made a comment of "misguided kitsune" as I talked to them about all this. That does seem appropriate. It brings up another point that, back to the family mentioning... there are two kinds of kitsune, the one that is to serve Inari, and then another that is mischievous and sometimes malicious. I'm... honestly feeling that were I a kitsune, I would have been the first but not a servant and more of a loner. Indeed... misguided somewhere.

To me... the circumstances are just very odd and... disturbing somewhat. I've got the same feeling as what happened years ago upon realizing I was a dragon inside... The difference this time around is that I've already been discussing with otherkin before this. But... I'm very worried.
See, being a dragon spiritually, I'm sort of... upset... not glad... that I'm finding yet another mythological connection. If it's that. A therian could come up to me, and they could point at me and say they are more likely to be right because I'm a mythological animal, and they are an actual one. So, what am I to think if indeed I found I was yet ANOTHER mythological being?

It makes me worry a lot... I'm so worried about posting this that I've typed out now... not that someone would simply say I'm going overboard or such... but to be completely shunned for looking... fluffy... for lack of other terms at the moment.
I want to say though, I don't want to discourage any types of comments... I want honest opinions about this. Thoughts, ideas, insults.. XD Yes, I just... really want open honest feedback on this... I promise not to get mad because I did this with when I found I was dragon... again...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:57 pm


Are we talking about the regular "fox" kind of kitsune or the kitsune of Japanese mythology and folklore?

That would clear up some things.

Obscurus

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Blind Guardian the 2nd

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:45 am


Well seeing as kitsune are supposed to be the messengers of Inari, I don't really think they'd be up to much transmigration. Seems like a job with a lot of power and responsibility, and with a god as your owner, you probably wouldn't be dying much, if at all.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:55 pm


Obscurus
Are we talking about the regular "fox" kind of kitsune or the kitsune of Japanese mythology and folklore?

That would clear up some things.
I... think... the one that has the at most nine tails and such. sweatdrop

In a sense though, I think even regular foxes in that region were viewed nearly in the same light... am I right?

Blind Guardian the 2nd
Well seeing as kitsune are supposed to be the messengers of Inari, I don't really think they'd be up to much transmigration. Seems like a job with a lot of power and responsibility, and with a god as your owner, you probably wouldn't be dying much, if at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsune#Characteristics
Indeed.

Sources (being Wikipedia, sadly... as I've just started looking and there isn't much information I've read in books thus far...) would say though that not all kitsune are as such...

Plus, just because one would be a messenger doesn't mean to me they couldn't die. Still, the topic is a search for information and opinions... thanks both of you. 3nodding

Hope more people see this... the otherkin threads here seem to lack in activity in my opinion... sweatdrop

aaarhus


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:14 pm


I seem to recall that in Japanese folklore that foxes were considered tricksters. Some of them could even shape shift into a beautiful woman to seduce mean to their deaths, or something to that effect.

I also remember that the Japanese phone greeting "moushi moushi" is derived from back when belief in fox spirits was prevalent, in that to make sure you weren't talking to a shape-changed fox you would make the other person say "moushi moushi" as foxes could not say that for some reason.

At least that's what my memory tells me. I pick up some of the most obscure crap sometimes. xd
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:56 am


I have a hard time remembering that unless I've been reading it... is all I can say on "moushi moushi". whee

I'm posting this at the other places I frequent... trying to get as many opinions as I can. Really though... I'm getting from one place that the people there realize I'm not a fluffy, and that I'm doing ok in worrying so much...
Honestly, I don't want to see myself believing something then realizing I'm wrong... I still do that with being a dragon... sweatdrop

But, yeah, I've typed up a longer blurb about what is going on. Perhaps I'll update the first post with this as well.

Quote:
I can't remember exactly how long ago... but... I'm sure in the past month I met up with someone that claims to be an otherkin kitsune. We both had similar interests, and I happened to find him on a forum, thus why we started chatting.

One thing had led to another, and I ended up making up a kitsune on a story we were doing. Just for fun... of course.
That's sort of where things started... when I was thinking of colors, I was going to just do silver when I had said that... and then there was this rush of details that came to mind... a whole entire color scheme just shot into my head... I only thought "how convenient" at the time.

Later on... like the next day or so, I read up on kitsune on Wikipedia. I started reading on down through the information... and in there I found some coincidence...
Yes, I'm aware that many people like tofu, and probably soy products as well. I do... I know that. I love soy milk.
It appears that the sources say kitsune do as well. It just struck me a bit odd. I've only had tofu once... and... it was rather good. My stepfather makes a comment of how odd it is to like something without taste to it...

So... it was rather odd to me... I couldn't forget about that, and eventually I tried to find more information and came across a page of research someone had put together from many different sources. I started to read all of it... I began to scan through, excited... like I was on the trail of something very important. And... there were interesting bits in there that really did make me... well...

What I found were definitely two things... one was a list of traits. I matched up on nearly all of these... the only two was my take on revenge (I find it hard to hold a grudge... I just like getting even for fun), and of helping and receiving help (I actively go to co-workers asking if they need anything... and I try to not be afraid to ask for help if needing it, but would rather go without).
The other traits I hit nearly head on... I'm attached to my family in ways they don't understand...
It's... really hard to say on the traits though. I feel like trying to match things up to them in vain isn't going to prove a thing... so... I would try to give examples but perhaps at a later date. It's just the list seems to relate to the morals I've kept to myself... trying to help out in general to make things run a bit more smoothly.

The second thing is that I have this one view of death... I don't want to end up in a final resting place, which I mean like heaven or hell... and I don't know about reincarnation. I would possibly, if given the choice, much rather stay and try to protect and watch over the family of mine...
I nearly freaked when I saw this then... a paragraph under a "possession" section, talking of how a kitsune would walk among people, etc.
It was saying in one of the sections that a kitsune could possess an unborn child, or a dead person. BUT, on the part of dieing... it was saying something else could possibly happen... the person could become a kitsune at death, and it breaks the cycle of birth - life - death - reincarnation. Very odd.

There's a few more things I want to say before I submit this though... one of these is a personal belief I have...
Honestly... I haven't felt a connection to any gods or goddesses, deities... nothing. My belief is I have nothing to do with them in the event they do exist... because to me I haven't seen anything suggest otherwise.
Talking with a friend they made a comment of "misguided kitsune" as I talked to them about all this. That does seem appropriate. It brings up another point that, back to the family mentioning... there are two kinds of kitsune, the one that is to serve Inari, and then another that is mischievous and sometimes malicious. I'm... honestly feeling that were I a kitsune, I would have been the first but not a servant and more of a loner. Indeed... misguided somewhere.

To me... the circumstances are just very odd and... disturbing somewhat. I've got the same feeling as what happened years ago upon realizing I was a dragon inside... The difference this time around is that I've already been discussing with otherkin before this. But... I'm very worried.
See, being a dragon spiritually, I'm sort of... upset... not glad... that I'm finding yet another mythological connection. If it's that. A therian could come up to me, and they could point at me and say they are more likely to be right because I'm a mythological animal, and they are an actual one. So, what am I to think if indeed I found I was yet ANOTHER mythological being?

It makes me worry a lot... I'm so worried about posting this that I've typed out now... not that someone would simply say I'm going overboard or such... but to be completely shunned for looking... fluffy... for lack of other terms at the moment.
I want to say though, I don't want to discourage any types of comments... I want honest opinions about this. Thoughts, ideas, insults.. XD Yes, I just... really want open honest feedback on this... I promise not to get mad because I did this with when I found I was dragon... again...

aaarhus


princess of moonlight

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:24 am


Well..As much as I know is that Kitsune was Inari's messenger(Can also be called Oinari),who was the deity of rice and major Shinto Kami (Don't know what that means).Also in modern times, images of Inari have all but disappeared, replaced instead by images of Oinari's messenger, the magical shape-shifting fox (kitsune).

but then there can be other chance than Kitsune.

Second,the fox is associated with the concept of Kimon, literally "demon gate," a Japanese term stemming from Chinese geomancy.
In Chinese thought, the northeast quarter is considered particularly inauspicious. It is the place where "demons gather and enter." This belief was imported by the Japanese and is referred to as Kimon. Kimon generally means ominous direction, or taboo direction. In Japan, the fox is considered a powerful ally in warding off evil Kimon influences. Fox statues are often placed in northeast locations to stand guard over demonic influence, and two foxes typically guard the entrance to Inari Shrines, one to the left and one to the right of the gate.

Kitsune is known as 'The fox spirit'
Fox spirits occupies the same mythological niche as the faerie in Western mythology. They are beautiful beyond endurance, elusive, powerful, mischievous and vindictive. In Chinese mythology, the human form is the pinnacle of creation. All animals, and sometimes plants seek to achieve human form on their way to immortality. Of these animals, foxes seem to succeed the most. They do this by abosrbing the essence of the moon and the sun. Some folklores maintain that fox achieves this by conducting rites of worhip during full moons. After a few centuries, they will acquire the ability to change into human form.
Most fox spirits in stories are female. They usually appear as extremely beautiful woman. The male fox spirits, rare as they are, appear either as erudite and handsome men or wise old men. You can tell a fox spirit from a human from their tails. Some of them have not quite mastered the human form. While the body looks human enough, the tail remains. They solve the problem by tucking their tail inside their pants. The ones who did master the human shape can be enticed to show their true form by getting them drunk. So if your friend remain human after a good night of drinking, you can believe that he's human.
If they are killed, they revert to their original form. It's the women who were dangerous. They usually seek to copulate with human males. They use the sexual act itself to absorb their partner's energy in order to add to their own powers. Such relationships, if prolonged, result in sickness and eventually death for the man.Most fox spirits are not as brazen as that. The fox spirits ordinary people have experienced are much more elusive. They live in the attics or some deserted room in a large house. You never see them. You know they're there because of the noises they make. The difference between fox spirits noises and ghost noises is, of course, fox spirits make the noises day and night! Sometimes the fox spirits throw things, such as rocks and tiles, into the yard or against the door. You know people aren't responsible for the disturbance because you can't see anybody around the house. When a family is haunted by a fox spirit, they set up a shrine in the abandoned attic. Incense sticks are burned regularly. Sometimes food is also offered. Things usually quiet down after that. Most of the time, the fox spirits leave their landlords alone if the landlords leave them alone. Sometimes, the fox spirits will even take care of any thief or burglar who are foolish to rob such a house.

I think I gave all the information I know,my hands are tired after that...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:32 am


Yeah and other things about Kitsune's are that in mythology they can create illusions so powerful they are indistinguishable from reality,which you may already knew.
Only the power of a priest can dispel them and such shattered illusions are so devastating to the kitsune as a physical blow, in fact the illusions are some complete one way to kill a kitsune is to shatter the illusion, which only a priest can even percive.
Also,they can create fire- and lightning balls,pocket realities and shapeshift.(Guess you knew that too xd )

princess of moonlight


princess of moonlight

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:40 am


Quote:
I... think... the one that has the at most nine tails and such. sweatdrop

In a sense though, I think even regular foxes in that region were viewed nearly in the same light... am I right?

Kitsunes are interesting breed,indeed.
Even male ones often took female form.
The tails of Kitsune have a varied history,or so I have heard.
Some think that the 9 tail are the sign of rank,others think that it was age of them.
And the queen of Kitsunes had either 10,100 or 1000 tails.I don't know if there is some kind of queen/mother,but that's just rumour,I think.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:53 pm


Regarding the female form... in photography class the teacher made a point of saying to take a portrait of me correctly to avoid making me appear feminine...
sweatdrop ... I'm saying that with a strait face.

aaarhus


aaarhus

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:26 pm


Well, I guess I'm making a comment here as an update (and to whore more gold for myself... sweatdrop )

Currently my list of books is this:
Kitsune: Japan's Fox of Mystery, Romance & Humor - $300
The Fox and the Jewel - $45
Fox - $17

Then for fun...
Hiroshige: 100 views of Edo - $15
Holistic Herbal Directory - $6
The Fox Woman - $10
Sandman: Dream Hunters - $21

Yeah... that first book is what started all this. It's encouraged me back into reading, which I now do instead of playing the DS at work. That was my game time... go figure. My other free time is spent on the computer either chatting or playing games. talk2hand <- Supposed to be me "juggling".
The "current list of books" section is that these are research. Kitsune is a translated work... has many kitsune stories in it. Also had, surprisingly, accounts of possession cases at the end of the book. Weird.
Fox and Jewel (sometimes misread as "Fox and the Hound" by people at work) is of the author's trip to explore Inari. Both sides and those having multiple paths, Buddhism and Shinto. Had extensive information on Inari and also of the fox. And... uh... the jewel, what it stands for.
Fox is about real foxes and then mythologies I've heard. Have yet to get it here, but I purchased it.

The "for fun" books are relating in some way... except maybe the herbal directory. I got that because of the cover and... well, it's herbal stuffs. Thought I could get something from that. sweatdrop
The 100 views of Edo book, I admit I got it for "Fox Fires". It's the best copy of that picture I have seen, and lately I started to read all the other pictures and view them. Plan to make a poster print of Fox Fires later.
The Fox Woman is also a for fun book, but I have heard it's based off kitsune lore. *shrug* Nice cover as well, cheaper than the paperback (it's a hardback)... I liked the style in it as well. Seems so far to be journal-like entries of people. The characters are a fox (kitsune...?), a man with an interest in foxes, and then the man's wife. eek
Dream Hunters is not really required to be in the series of the Sandman stories. However, this one I've read is (and is not, then is again) based on a similar tale... this one is just changed to take into account "The Dream" or whatever you will call the guy. Have not even opened the wrap on it yet... can you believe that? I want to get all my reading done on the larger books first. (This is a graphic novel, by the way... and done by a Japanese artist which I mean the art is Japanese like. 4laugh )

(Turning wapanese I think I'm turning wapanese I really think so... lol)
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Otherkin/Reincarnation/Soul Discussion

 
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