the paradox box

[McWhopper]

you know the phrase, "think outside the box"?

well, how do we know that when we leave the box, we aren't just going into another box?

you know what i mean?

a box surrounding another box?


well, this best illustrates it:
 

[Amenubis]

The box is a metaphor. But yes, it makes sense, if you're leaving one point of reference, then by default, you're entering another, or at least "that which is not the box", which is still a form, because it's able to be referenced as "not the box", which immediately upon it's utterance, becomes another box.  

[AbrAbraxas]

xAfterdarkx

The box is a metaphor. But yes, it makes sense, if you're leaving one point of reference, then by default, you're entering another, or at least "that which is not the box", which is still a form, because it's able to be referenced as "not the box", which immediately upon it's utterance, becomes another box.

yo to that.

i think that there is some value to the saying, though it is over used and under contemplated. thinking outside the box is an act of thinking for yourself and doing something that is not dictated by past structures and as you have pointed out that even if we seem to be outside the "box" we will fall into another because most thinking is just a reassembly of other constructions.

is there something more to you example?
or are you just wanting to give the axe to an overused cliche?  

[Amenubis]

AbrAbraxas

xAfterdarkx

The box is a metaphor. But yes, it makes sense, if you're leaving one point of reference, then by default, you're entering another, or at least "that which is not the box", which is still a form, because it's able to be referenced as "not the box", which immediately upon it's utterance, becomes another box.

is there something more to you example?
or are you just wanting to give the axe to an overused cliche?

To me, it's worthless, the phrase anyway. It's a crude metaphor for something idealistic. I don't necessarily believe that one can only think inside a "box". To be honest, it sounds like a typical human form projection onto something that is abstract and formless (thoughts, being, action). The box metaphor only works inside of the accepted "normal" system. For instance, on what are the walls of the box based on? What makes it a box? I get it's implication, but it's simply useless, but apparently useless enough for me to ponder. biggrin  

[tenchi_no_kashaku]

It seems that you have found the paradox that is "logic."
Logic is a paradox in which everything is a truth,
and also at the same time everything is a lie.
It is whether a peice of information has more of which one
in a certain application and use.
I have a theory that I am to release on this type of phenomena.
It should be up soon.  

[McWhopper]

AbrAbraxas

xAfterdarkx

The box is a metaphor. But yes, it makes sense, if you're leaving one point of reference, then by default, you're entering another, or at least "that which is not the box", which is still a form, because it's able to be referenced as "not the box", which immediately upon it's utterance, becomes another box.

yo to that.

i think that there is some value to the saying, though it is over used and under contemplated. thinking outside the box is an act of thinking for yourself and doing something that is not dictated by past structures and as you have pointed out that even if we seem to be outside the "box" we will fall into another because most thinking is just a reassembly of other constructions.

is there something more to you example?
or are you just wanting to give the axe to an overused cliche?

um, yeah.
that makes perfect sense. i was kind of thinking that there is no original thought today.
just look at movies today for example; they're either remakes, sequels, or have a storyline that's very similar to another movie.

i don't think anyone is capable of thinking outside the box anymore........  

[whynaut]

Well isn't that the postmodernist impass? How can we free ourselves from institiutions if institutions make up everything? The philosopher Foucault basically said that since you can never be free of the box, the best you can hope for is just to pick a box that you like.  

[27x]

What the phraze,"Think outside the box" is reffering to, is simply meant to inspire. It could mean several things, such as, we are all in a box. Or, we can't see beyond the box: A. Try to get out of the box. B. Try to figure out waht is outside of the box and how to get there. C. Try to think beyond what most people in the box think, because they don't consider the fact that other people arn't doing this, and in a sence, are not indocterinated. For lack of a better word anyway.

This phraze simply makes you imagine you are in a box, and there is something outside of it you want, or don't see, and you need to think about it to achieve your goal.... Nothing more...

However, you do have a good point. I disagree though. If you are considering the fact that berhaps by being inside a box and leaving, we are just going inside a bigger box, then... First consider that however you look at it, most situations imply that it is more productive to be outside of a small box, even to go into a bigger one. Secondly, imagine that, really, if there is a box containign this universe, it really doesent effect us unless it comes close to us or destroys us or something like that. We infact don't even have enough lifespan or resouces to go beyond our solar system, yet alone to the edge of our boxed universe, so that idea is irrelivent in my opinion. IF I am wrong, perhaps because this isn't real and I am really in a box, then not only is this not real, but I, and my memories are not real, such as in the matrix, so it really doesent matter because there is no possible escape from such an illusion, so fighting it is meaningless.

Thing about it as rats in a maze, or wrather intelligent rats. They find out that sombody is putting cheeze in and they odn't know what is beyond the maze, but beyond it, somewhere, must be a large supply of cheeze, as it's source.

Good day.  

[Ketsuyin]

I_27_04

Thing about it as rats in a maze, or wrather intelligent rats. They find out that sombody is putting cheeze in and they odn't know what is beyond the maze, but beyond it, somewhere, must be a large supply of cheeze, as it's source.

Good day.

Well said, I agree. Another example would be to consider just exactly how fish in a tank feel. On occasion food just falls down from the 'sky'(or water's surface) and they eat it. They may contemplate that there is an entire universe out there past the water's edge that is full of good things and food and freedom. However, no matter how much they think about it they are still incapable of leaving the water in order to discover the Real World(ours) beyond the surface. So the most they can do with their existence is be comfortable with the world and the life they are stuck in, because thinking about something they can never have does them no good. And maybe they could someday leave the water (I'm not talking about evolution, just helping the metaphor of us being the fish), but fish only have an attention span of about three seconds, which is just not long enough to accomplish anything. Similarly, it may be possible for us to leave our 'box'(planet earth), but our lifespan is simply not long enough to accomplish any such thing, since space travel is measured in distances of light years. I think our spirit could make such journeys once the frail body has died, and the things that fall down for us to feed on are things like moments of happiness, love, etc. and the place they come from is probably heaven(or whatever inadequate human word you may use to describe it). Still, this line of thought begs the question, why are we here to begin with? And for that question there are as many answers as there are people on earth. I've probably gone off topic. Ultimately, if you think about any type of metaphysical 'box' as being reality, you must first consider it as reality being a box made of an infinity number of infinitely smaller boxes, and each of those boxes made of an infinite number of infinitely smaller boxes, and so on. But like I said, trying to understand reality is a work in vain. After all, you're not likely to ever really understand it. And even if you do, that doesn't mean you'll be able to do anything about it. Ultimately it's better to just be happy and eat the food when you get it, no?  

[x3 SuGarr CoOkiie]

That is kind of amusing that you mentioned it because when I am told to "think outside the box", I do as the diagram. I think out side the box, only to find myself in another one.