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He Inspires People and Brings People in America New Hope! mrgreen

True That...

Well, I understand the "Hope" thing but it is an overused excuse (and I do mean excuse). I would want some flesh to my argument.
I guess what drew me to Obama was his speaking ability. He just had the ability to sound genuine and unrehearsed (even though most of it is, and I do not deny it) without much experience. And the ability to grab the attention of many with a voice is a rare and powerful gift, becasue you have to believe what you're saying to speak that way (and thew counter argument is "So could Hitler", but I digress).
His record kept me in his circle. Fresh into Washington, so unaffected by the lazy corruption around Washington, and enough reliance to fight back against everything. Like he says in his book The Audacity of Hope in order to get money for campaigning you have to go to special interest groups and fill out a questionnaire "During my campaign (Legislator in Illinois).. I must have filled out fifty questionnaires. None of them subtle.. Time dictated I only fill out the questions from organizations that might actually endorse me, so I could usually answer yes to all the questions... but every so often I would come across one that would give me pause... [but] get one answer wrong and you'd lose the endorsement... but you're a typical Two faced politician.... The answer is not obvious. So you start voting as you would answer a questionnaire. You don't ponder your positions too deeply. You check the yes box up and down the line" (pg.116-120).
It's like seeing a child grow without the possibility of failure, you just become drawn to him. Yeah, he's had his hardships, but who hasn't? Shouldn't we judge him on something more profound, like his logic (reading any one of his books would give you a good sense of it), and , yes, he isn't a Republican. But not all Republicans were horrible. Look at the fellow Republican from his very state. Lincoln could be called anything but a bad Republican (and again, look at his hardships). Teddy Roosevelt was a great republican (and a great speaker), and look at the Democrats with his wonderful speaking ability: Bobby and John Kennedy. Or Bill Clinton for that matter (wonderful speaker, needs to have a moral check)

My response:

1. First of all, McCain is rather different in many ways than Bush. Also, being different from them alone isn't good enough. And really, he isn't that different.
2. Nader has some ridiculous ideas on some issues, so I wouldn't say that's a good thing necessarily...
3. How so? He doesn't seem any more "intellectual" than any other politician, apart from his ability to speak well.
4. I know way too many young people who are completely out of touch with the world to consider that a plus.
5. When I hear some rational, informed proposals about the Internet coming from him, I'll believe that,
6. I don't believe pro-choice is the way to go, and I doubt Obama has the balls to stand up to the evangelical movement.
7. I'll give him that, but too many "diplomatic" presidents have given in to the military-industrial complex's demands in the past, so I'm not sure if we can really expect him to avoid military action all the way.
8. I don't think his race should matter at all, not against him or in his favour.
9.The "inflate your tires" thing is laughable...it's a good idea, but it's hardly a real solution to energy problems.
10. With all the campaigning his wife is doing, I'm not sure that's accurate. McCain certainly isn't overplaying the "family" aspect either.

Sorry, but I thought in a political forum it would be a given that debating would be involved in any thread that didn't expressly say otherwise. I'll try and be more clear in the future.

Anyways, I'll just respond to your points, and if you don't want to continue, you can leave it as it is.

1. He's a whole lot less of a warmonger than Bush, and he seems to be more willing to co-operate with the Democrats than Bush ever was.
2. Agreed.
3. There's no doubt that McCain lacks a grasp of many issues, but I don't see why Obama should be considered an intellectual because of it.
4. Not all older people are racists or sexists, and I wasn't referring to two-year-olds, I was refferring to the people around Obama's age, and the people around the age of his core supporters. Plenty of those people simply lack an understanding of the world, so I wouldn't consider Obama a better candidate because of his age.
5. McCain definitely hasn't used the Internet to his advantage, but that doesn't mean Obama is anywhere near tech-literate. Again, when I see him being intelligent about the Internet, I'll believe it.
6. Fair enough.
7. Agreed, and I think it's great that he wants diplomacy. However, the forces pushing for American military involvement abroad are very powerful, and Obama's habit of compromising his principles shows that he may well give in to those forces.
8. I really don't think very many people are refusing to support Obama because of racism. And I certainly don't see where him being black could necessarily help black people in America.
9. It's not a practical solution because inflating our tires simply won't compensate for the massive energy problems affecting America. It's barely help at all.
10. Agreed on all points....but irrelevant to what I said.

I was a Kucinich supporter who switched to Obama after Dennis dropped out of the race. I liked that he talks to Americans in general and critics in specific as if he thinks Americans are logical reasonable human beings. While this is likely delusional, I rather enjoy the rise in the quality of debate. (Ex: Flag puns; the Reverend Wright/race speech). I liked that while Hilary Clinton was doing the limbo to see how low she could go with the campaign rhetoric, he was maintaining a relatively calm and high toned approach. Why he, like Clinton, is mediocre on health care, it's still vastly better than what the Republicans are offering. He and his wife are genuinely working class people who ythrough dint of hard work and intelligence worked their way up to comfortable and still have at least some clue about what life is like for ordinary Americans.

I would like for the first time in my life to have a President I'm not ashamed of, and he's currently the best best for me getting that. Bonus points for him likely being my only chance at an Xer president because of the demographic realities.

No, I don't trust him particularly, but given that I trust a total of two politicians currently in office (DeFazio, Kucinich), that's not saying much and I've already a long history with the Clintons in which they have repeatedly gone back on things they promised which I held most dear (Ex: Gays in the military, Health care reform). Her willingness to attack other Democrats and do real damage to the party during the primary suggests to me that she really is willing to do anything for power (Ex: say that McCain would be better than Obama, attqack Gore at random). He is obviously ambitious, as one must be to run for President), but he hasn't burned me yet and so far he's shown a lot of grace under fire.

I would rather bet on the chance of something decent than vote for a man who is pro-torture, pro-draft, pro-continue to waste lives in Iraq to no purpose, who knows nothing of economics judging from his speeches, and is so out of touch he doesn't know what GLBT is or that the US economy is tanking.