Welcome to Gaia! ::

This is the main reason I stopped posting here myself. I think this guild is comprised of members who are too diverse in some of their fundamental viewpoints for there to be true comradeship.

Take a hypothetical situation in which we were all to stage a successful revolution under the auspice of "socialism". I would guarantee you most of us would then form our own groups and fight amongst ourselves based on other differing values, or based on what we think socialism should be like and whether its end goal should be communism or not.

I join groups to aid in singular causes. I will, for example, join the pro-life guild, being pro-life, but disagree with members who may be for the war in Iraq or for abstinence-only education. Inversely, I may aid groups I disagree with in other areas if they are doing something worthwhile, such as go with a church group on a pro-life rally. I don't think I've really ever supported an entire group always and forever on all issues all the time. I pick out the things I like from it and fight against the wrong in it.

So in that respect, we are all comrades in the fact that we fight for the worker. We are united by our common goal in this area, even if we are apart in others.

If you weren't angry you wouldn't make a post about the maturity of the other members of this group.

To me and Comrade Robson, that's how it felt. It felt like we were being attacked and belittled by the two of you because we don't agree with anarcho-communism. This is why he's been so hostile to you lately, because quite frankly we're all fed up with each other. How do I expect communist ideals to grow? By presenting facts and things that actually work to the people that I come into contact with.

Ok, first off, sexual assault can be anything. It can be a slap on the a** to rape. Secondly, one of the sources said that they were reporting this for not only US military personnel but private contractors and Iraqi Locals. Well no s**t. I will never feel like you were looking out for me. I will always feel like that was an attack, and when I flipped out you've now taken the opportunity to make yourself look like a victim and me some crazy disagreeable fanatic of the US military.

How am I kicking a group while it's down when I'm a)not talking to a member of that group and b) not even thinking of that group when choosing vernacular? I've said it before, I'll say it again, that word has a different meaning to me. Just like gay can mean happiness to people from a hundred years ago.


No, what you were doing wasn't criticism. You were flat out telling me that I was wrong, I was a baby killer, I was this horrible person for following a dream. I ASKED for opinions. I didn't ASK to be told I was a horrible person and that I would basically go to hell for these decisions. I'm not responsible for the policy makers. I'm not responsible for this war. I'm responsible for myself, and the men and women underneath me. I don't choose where I go in the world, I don't choose what my mission is.

I don't think that every serviceman is this pure and holy angel, no. But I don't think that they're horrible devils either. I don't think that they're all over there because they want to kill Iraqis. Considering saying such a thing gets you court marshaled. I don't think that they're all sex-deprived and violent beings that will rape any woman that they see. You don't know these guys, I do. How would you feel if I started making wild claims based on dumb stereotypes about YOUR friends? Especially considering my friends, they joined because they want protect people like you. They want to protect this nation. Whether or not the war they are put into does that, that's what they joined for. A love of their country. So go ahead and bash them all you want, sleep peacefully knowing you never have to see the hell they go through. Ignorance is bliss ain't it?

Did I not show you that photo album? There are SEVERAL Iraqis who love us and our presence. Yes, there are people who hate us. But if you want to keep listening to the media and everything they're going to report about the war, then go ahead and be a slave to the media like the rest of the nation. I'D rather listen to my FRIENDS who have BEEN there. Who have SEEN it FIRST hand. They seem like a bit of a more reliable source to me. You know that whole... being there thing.

I didn't leave to let my boyfriend come in, but apparently you don't get things the first time around, so let me to try to spell it out real clear this time: I had been asking him for days to come in and put his two cents on the ORIGINAL TOPIC. I came in after that. But guess what? My whole life? Doesn't revolve the GCP or even gaia for that matter. There's this called college, and papers, and homework. I'm pretty sure I made a thread about it saying that I wouldn't be posting because I was a bit bogged down with work. I had to go to drill on two separate weekends very recently and in between I went to Canada to wrestle. Kinda took all my time away from me. But now that I'm back, I'll reply. What exactly is it love that you need me to reply to? Hmm? Because I've been to every thread and said something.


I'm sorry comrade, are your feelings hurt because someone disagrees with you on the internet? Can we just look past this and be besties??


Apparently, you're the one who can't take a debate and/or criticism or anything under that category if you're going to claim that it's immaturity that has led me and Comrade Robson to post the way we do. Because I'm not gonna lie, and you can ask iRage and Robson, I think you act like you're 14. You think you know a lot about the world, when in you reality you know very little. You're very adamant about "let's attack the ED again!" because THAT'S gonna win people over right? I was embarrassed to be on the same side of the argument as you last time there was a commie thread there. You represent communists poorly in my opinion. In the ED YOU are very quick to get angry and to not understand what other people are saying. If this is how you debate, why should I treat you any different? Why should I give you the liberty of talking my ear off so to speak with absolute nonsense?

Read Marx, Read Engels, read history. Do some research, get off the computer, stop whining about how horrible life is and get out there and DO something about it. Or would that be just too much of a hassle?

I apologize for the long time spent posting, I was busy with other things.

Wow.

Once again, I'm calm and you freak out. Then you blame me for "trying to make you look like you're a fanatic"....?

Let me go through this, bit by bit, and I'm sorry, if your next response isn't calm I'm not going to bother.



I'm certainly annoyed, and frustrated. But let's not talk about who is angry and who is not when you obviously are and have been after every criticism.



Why does it feel like we're attacking you? I don't think divine is even anarcho-communist, just doesn't agree with going off to an immoral war. I certainly don't agree with him on other things and don't even know what his particular brand of communism is.

You yourself said that you've just got to deal with harsh criticism, then you turn around and say you're being attacked and belittled by our criticism!

Communism must grow this way, yes, by presenting facts and debating. So why, then, are you so opposed to me presenting facts and debating with you? Shouldn't the ideals we spread to others be pure, shouldn't they be able to stand up to criticism? Why would you want to spread ideals that you keep protected from this?



So? Doesn't change that rape happens, doesn't change that sexual assault is bad, and just because it's an attempt (as you pointed out just now) doesn't make it okay. That it happens often is of concern, no? Nor do I care what notions you have about who can mess with you or how tough you are. Do you really think that I have this idea of the women in the military as weak little pansies? I do not. Nor do I think they would report anything less than real assault as sexual assault. Their strength, which I respect, does not change that this still happens.



Because "n-----" is okay to say if it has a different meaning for you, right? It doesn't change that it's hurtful to members of those group, and I have quite a few friends who are willing to message you on AIM or email you and tell you how hurtful they find that their sexuality is an insult with you.



So let me get this straight. I provided quite a bit of evidence that what the US military is doing is rather unsavory, killing women and children. You then admit yourself that you as a soldier must carry out orders that you do not choose, whether or not they are right.

Are you so willing to surrender your morals to someone who is of a higher "rank"? If you are ordered to kill a child, would you? What makes that different from a woman, or a man? When you surrender your right to choose who you kill, you may as well be called a baby killer though honestly I don't think I said anything to that effect and if I did, it was rude and I apologize.

You are not responsible, no, but you are willfully and eagerly carrying out a war that is immoral and based on capitalist reasons. If you work for a company that outsources, suppresses unions, fights worker's rights, disregards the safety of its customers, and does terrible work in the world, you are just as guilty because you are an agent of their work.

And yes, you are wrong! In our opinions, and we have every right to criticize you if you are asking for them.



Wild claims? I used evidence to show that soldiers are anything but angels, which you keep saying is so important yet disregard when it disagrees with your ideals. When have I used 'dumb stereotypes'?

Personally, I'm amazed you'd refer to these people who I showed rape, slaughter, etc, as your 'friends'. Do you really think those people want to protect their country by....raping little girls...?

Perhaps you need to rethink what kind of people join the military. What kind of people have no problem with surrendering their morals to a higher rank, killing on command and not wondering who it is they are killing and why.

No, I am not saying all or even most US soldiers--or any soldiers from any country!--are bad people. I'm not denying that quite a few really want to protect their country (though their logic is so incredibly flawed).

In fact--my father, grandfather, and most men in my family are military men. A few are good people, but only the one who fought in WWII I really respect. A friend of my brother and I --a woman and a lesbian to boot--is in Iraq and has told me she wants to get out as soon as possible because of how she's treated while trying to defend the country.

However, it is long past obvious that fighting in Iraq is not defending the country, not defending freedom, etc. We are destroying a third world country that never attacked us, we are slaughtering her people. To say that they all really want to protect their country and are good people is outright silly. It is obvious this is not protecting America.

Soldiers are humans, and like humans, will join or fight for different reasons. Some for the experience. Some for racist reasons. Some to get to college. Some because they really do think, sadly, that they are protecting their country.



Several? Out of all of them? Well, then, let's stay! The vast amount of Iraqis want us out. We invaded them, occupied their country, slaughtered their people, and installed ourselves as their dictators. For you to disregard statistics in favor of biased opinion is amazing.



Right, because as soon as I proved you wrong, you "disappeared" only to continue posting while ignoring mine...makes sense, right?


Your childishness is unamusing.



Wow.

So...I'm acting like I'm 14 by...proving my claims...talking with you calmly...and encouraging anyone to respectfully criticize me, while doing the same to you?

I know very little? I'm angry all the time? I, etc, etc, etc?

So...I guess your childish insults don't count.

Yes, I am quick to get angry with people like the trolls we met in ED who outright insult me and act like children by pretending to be Communists then saying things like "let's shoot anyone who doesn't agree!" to make us look bad.

I find it interesting that you accuse me of getting angry too fast--anyone reading your posts here would disagree and say the same of you. You took my attempt to help far too personally and as an insult, and you don't seem to want to take criticism of your ideas and actions yet in the same breath say that I should just "take harsh criticism, that's life".

If the three of you think I act like a fourteen year old and have not have the balls to say so, then I would say the same. I have tried my best to be mature and respect and help my fellow comrades, and I am sad to see that this is not returned.

Enough with the childish insults.

So because I choose to think for myself instead of simply following the ideals to the letter of thinkers who, while I respect, do not live in our time, I have no right to speak my opinion? Because I talk on an internet forum--like you are doing--and disagree with you, I'm an uninformed, fat and lazy person who can't get off of the chair, and who is whining about how horrible life is?

I don't even know how to respond to these childish insults. I'll just let them sit there...

Again with the immaturity that was the point of this thread. You had claimed that the US military did not do various things, I proved you wrong, and you began to respond to everything BUT my post. How is it that you have a life outside of Gaia only when it involved my post proving you wrong?



Yet, xion, I have every right to consider you a bad person for wanting to hand over your morals to someone with a higher rank, occupy a third world country, and kill people who have done nothing to us. And I DID provide you with reasons, yet those apparently matter not.



"Facts"? Why are they not considered facts simply because they have nothing to do with communism? Are they not facts simply because they disagree with your opinion? Are your actions free from morality simply because they are unrelated to communism? How does this begin to make any sense?

'Change the subject to rape'? I simply warned you of a danger, out of concern. I was not attempting to change the subject.

My facts, which you seem to think are not so simply because you disagree with them or because they are not communist-related, come from a variety of reputable sources and are fairly well known. They do not stop being facts simply because you put quotes around them and seek to ignore them.



Because military men are the best source of unbiased information on how many women get raped or sexually assaulted by their fellow soldiers, right? As opposed to reputable sources? And it amazes me that you'd call your own fellow soldiers 'pansies' yet insist that I am not allowed to bring up facts proving that certain things happen in the US military? How is it that you may use word of mouth and the least reputable of sources, yet more reputable sources aren't worth anything? Do you see nothing wrong with this?



How would I be "sending them out to get you" by asking them to prove my point to you by letting them know they find it offensive and hurtful, after you denied that anyone gay or lesbian would? It is simply proving a point.

I suppose you wouldn't mind if I used "xiondono" to describe herpes patients or people who had mental disabilities, the same would apply to you being upset over it? You would be "butthurt" then? See how that is hurtful? Of course I would not, because such a thing is flat out rude, but I hope you see my point.



When you're fighting a war that is wrong in the first place, such excuses become pointless. Regardless, the amounts of women and children slaughtered without reason is far too high, and I doubt every instance has a similar excuse. Yes, I realize battle is chaotic and nothing is easy.



And when did I ever accuse anyone you know as a friend or that you know of raping anyone? I was referring to the general US military. You take things far too personally. And if you bothered to read my post debunking your claim that US military never did such things as rape and murder, you would have found one example of a US soldier raping a little girl then murdering her. What excuse will you find for that? Was she in the middle of a battle?


Where did I claim they all hated us? All I said was they want us out. They have asked for it and polls show that they want us. Biased as it may be, if you dispute this then by all means show me real proof otherwise.




Of course. Because the person asking for respect and maturity in debates and who disagrees with you and is not tossing insults at you is the real immature one, right?



It was quite childish. You were not attacking my position on Marx but claiming that I sat around on the computer all day and had no idea what I was talking about simply because you disagree with me.

I did not say it couldn't be held up to criticism, I think quite the opposite, and Robson can attest to this--I think we should, as a group, be very critical of our own ideals and classical theory. Blind acceptance of them without criticizing every aspect of them is flat out stupid.

Who's TJ? Can I have some popcorn? I wanna throw it. twisted