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Darkfyre
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:05 am


semi-final version of the new system is on page 2.
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?page=2&t=1410733#36575356

final version of the new system is on page 3.
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?page=3&t=1410733#37696431




original post
Ok, it's time we made a decision on this. I've taken the quotes that most people agreed with, and compiled them into a few options. If you have any questions, I suggest you read the "New Ideas" thread first.

1
Every Clan gets a number of 'levels' (I was thinking something like 5+#members to start) to divide between their members, The number of levels a character has determines his/her relative strength and the number of spells that character can use. The spells stay the same, but the way you get them is slightly different. If you want to use a spell of a higher level, you first need to have the spells that lead to it.

For example: An Air character wants to use Hurricane. Since Hurricane is made out of Rain and Cloud, the character would need to be at least level 3 (1 for Rain, 1 for Cloud, and 1 for Hurricane). Once a spell is chosen, it can't be traded in for another spell. Characters can gain levels for more spells. This way it takes a bit longer to get to the really strong 4th level spells, and it also gives a bit more strategic options. Will someone choose to get higher level spells ASAP, or first collect all low-level spells?

The initial few levels will be divided by the Clans (or Clan leaders). However, new levels can only be gained by roleplaying. At the end of a quest, a character will receive a set amount of XP for finishing the quest and an amount of XP depending on the quality of roleplaying and the actions of the character in the quest. When the XP hits a certain point, the character goes up in level and gets to choose a new spell.

2
Anyway, what I was thinking about the battle system is maybe when PvPing, when someone RP's an attack, they generate a random number between 1 and 100. This is simply used as a guideline, and there's no defence roll. So say I attack Kuja and since I'm awesome I get a 75. Now, I don't automatically hit and Kuja gets some freedom of what happens, but the general implication is that I hit him. Say I get a 50, Kuja gets to decide whether or not based completely on his own RPing spirit. This has the bonus of taking away godmoding or cheating risks (that aren't really much of a problem anyway) and also adding structure and balance to the battle, but is much more lenient than the other system and requires almost no work at all.

3
Here it is. Unless specified otherwise, the energy cost is MP per casting. These values are based on an energy reserve of 100MP at level 1, with a 20MP increase per level. It also assumes that the spell system as described in the first post is used. With these values, the costs should allow a user at the minimum level for a certain spell to cast that spell approximately as many times as the description states.

Quote:
The Air Clan
Level 1:
Wind: 5
Breath: 20
Rain: 15
Cloud: 10 if used on allies, 15 if used on enemies
Thunder: 15
Lightning: 15
Level two:
Wind + Breath= Tornado: 30
Rain + Cloud= Hurricane: 10 per minute
Thunder + Lightning= Storm: 30
Level three:
Tornado + Hurricane= Tsunami: 75
Hurricane + Storm= Tempest: 10 per second
Level four:
Tempest + Tsunami= Sky: 300

The Earth Clan
Level one:
Pollen: 5
Vine: 2 per minute
Wood: 3 per minute
Spark:5
Rock: 10 per minute or per rock
Stream: 15
Level two:
Pollen + Vine= Forest: 25
Wood + Spark= Flame: 30
Rock + Stream= Mud: 30
Level three:
Forest + Mud= Stone: 55 per minute / per ball
Flame + Mud= Lava: 75
Level four:
Stone + Lava= Earth: 300

The Death Clan
Level one:
Undead: 30
Unholy: 15
Shadow: 3 per minute
Cold: 20
Pain: 15
Poison: 15
Level two:
Undead + Unholy= Necromancy: 25
Shadow + Cold= Ice: 30
Pain + Poison= Suffering: 30
Level three:
Necromancy + Suffering= Lich: 90 per minute
Ice + Suffering= Torment: 75
Level four:
Lich + Torment= Death: [not sure yet. Probably something like 100 + 20 * TargetLevel]

The Life Clan
Level one:
Cleansing: 15
Vision: 1 (or just 0)
Holy: 15
Light: 15
Strength: 15
Barrier: 15
Level two:
Cleansing + Vision= Clairvoyance: 30
Holy + Light= Divine: 30
Strength + Barrier= Might: 30
Level three:
Divine + Clairvoyance= Prophet: NA
Divine + Might= Crusade: 75
Level four:
Prophet + Crusade= Life: [not sure yet. Probably something like 50 + 20 * TargetLevel, and 75 if you're just healing in stead of resurrecting]

4
According to Darkfyre's system, theoretically one could choose whether they would want to get all of the level one spells first or go for the higher level ones immediately, right? But when you think about it, why would you choose to get a level one spell when you could just as easily get a level two spell? Level two spells are just more powerful, and there are very few reasons why people would choose not to get them in turn for a weaker one. What if, instead of requiring more XP to advance basic levels, it took more experience to learn higher level spells and less experience to learn lower level ones? For example, it might take 1000 to learn undead, 2000 to learn necromancy, 4000 to learn lich, and 8000 to learn death.

5
I'd prefer the first choice: "We could always base combat proficiency on raw experience". That would give an indication of who is stronger, while still leaving almost complete freeform freedom. Though putting it in the sig isn't a good idea... we'd better just create a seperate topic/post to keep track of people's XP and available spells, because it would only change at the end of a quest anyway.

6
XP / level values have yet to be decided, but the number of XP needed to advance a level will grow with every level gained. If it will double every time I don't know yet, though. Quest XP will probably be a base amount of XP for finishing the quest (set by me or the mods before the quest starts, and equal for all clans), and several (small) bonuses for things like exceptional RPing or finding out special things during the quest. The maximum amount bonuses will also be set before the quest starts. The mods will of course decide who gets what bonuses, but I assume that all mods can be trusted to be good judges.


These seemed to be the things most people agreed with.

From these things, and several other things that were mentioned in the thread, I have thought of several possibilities:

1) Everyone gets EXP for quests. When a certain amount of EXP is reached, you go up a level and get to choose a new spell. You also get extra MP for every level. Levels can be used as a guideline of how strong a person is in combat.
2) Everyone gets EXP for quests. This EXP can be used to 'buy' new spells. Every spell has a certain cost (high level spells cost more EXP ). Extra MP is gained for each spell bought. Overall EXP can be used as a guideline of how strong a person is in combat.
3) Everyone gets EXP for quests. This EXP can be used to 'buy' new spells. Every spell has a certain cost (high level spells cost more XP). Extra MP can also be bought for EXP. Overall EXP can be used as a guideline of how strong a person is in combat.
4) No changes to the current spell system.

5) One of the above systems is used, but in stead of EXP (which is personal), Clan Points have to be used to buy levels/spells.
6) One of the above systems is used, but for every attack the system described in Quote 2 is used.
7) One of the above systems is used, but normal combat is completely freeform, and nothing but the character's bio and IC posts are used to determine combat strength.


Post the number(s) you most agree with. Feel free to comment, but please don't start bringing up entirely new ideas, because I want to get this thing set in stone ASAP. Suggestions for small tweaks and details are welcome.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:12 am


#3, but I still don't really like the idea of using levels to determing overall strength. We're all mature enough RPers to not need a system for that. Plus, it'd be harder to incorporate the variables like Kuja's changing weapon or my three "special bolts" into that.

Zelyhon


Darkfyre
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:17 am


I knew I had forgotten something. Fix'd with #7. 3nodding
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:40 am


Darkfyre
I knew I had forgotten something. Fix'd with #7. 3nodding
In that case, #7: #3

Zelyhon


Born Again Illiterate

Original Gaian

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 am


7.

Only because the MP chart seems user friendly and it is consistent. AND I can't stand the thought of using dice rolls for combat.

RP messageboards are entirely different than Tabletop RPGs. I would know.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:36 am


I'm going to say 3 and 5. I feel like runing the clan should be up to the leader. If they don't do a good job, well... They'll have that much less support when they really need it.

Lilthisia
Crew


SunsetSea

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:44 am


I say 7 because if you change the battle system it would be less of a Roleplaying sort of guild.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:35 am


3 and 5

Suoh Mizu


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:12 am


I abstain because I would be willing to adapt to anything. Although I'm not yet comfortable with saying that I do something to someone until I have a backing to it or they agree....
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:19 am


Heyla Dark, did you want the mods to post too? Since the exp system doesn't *really* affect us.

Though I like the thought of using exp as a sort of base guideline on how skilled a character is. That however, does not incorperate past knowedge or anything of the sort. Though in theory, everyone should be more or less on equal grounds.

And I like 2, but not for every attack. I think it would be a nice way to solve conflicts on whether or not a hit actually hit. But then again, that's what the mods are here for hm?

Other than that, I like 7. Numbers make my head spin.

Kairos
Crew


Rupin

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:29 am


all seems good to me
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:48 pm


Lilthisia
I'm going to say 3 and 5. I feel like runing the clan should be up to the leader. If they don't do a good job, well... They'll have that much less support when they really need it.


Also, I'd like to add something:

I think the mods/gm/and leaders of clans involved should come to a consensus of what levels to award whomever.

Ex. Death Clan has levels for xxxxx

Kuja and Kai discuss who they feel deserves a level based on activeness, RP, blah blah..
Rather than just the leader alone. sweatdrop

Born Again Illiterate

Original Gaian


ObsidianSnake

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:18 pm


2 and 6. They seem to be my most favored.

Although Darkfyre, I noticed your spells had a minute system for time-based increments. I have tried this in my guild, and it doesn't play out as easy as it seems. People will eventually get into arguements upon these spells and when they wear off. I would change your time increments to post increments. Such as, Hurricane: 10mp per post used in. The person could have the hurricane in as many posts as they like, but 10mp for each one. It sounds very powerful, but those posts would go by incredibly quick, and cause the users to be fore tactical in their usage of timed spells. Just a thought.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:31 pm


I'll go with 7 and 1, along with quote 3. I like these systems more than using exp to buy spells because using exp to buy spells just gets too complicated, and I'd like to keep things as simple as possible. domokun

Kujasan
Crew


Kairos
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:43 pm


minmin
Also, I'd like to add something:

I think the mods/gm/and leaders of clans involved should come to a consensus of what levels to award whomever.

Ex. Death Clan has levels for xxxxx

Kuja and Kai discuss who they feel deserves a level based on activeness, RP, blah blah..
Rather than just the leader alone. sweatdrop


That actually sounds pretty good, but I'd like to make a modification on THIS. xd If we go with the EXP route, I think the mods should be the only one who decide who gets extra EXP based on activeness and RP merit, to avoid favoring within the clans. Since after all, the mods are the GMs for the RP, and not the clan leaders. Clan leaders can promote within the ranks, but they can't really award experience to a character. Know what I mean?

Not to say that Clan Leaders don't have any imput in the whole process... just in the end, it's basically the mod's decision. And I'd say this even if I wasn't a mod.
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