|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:37 pm
I came across this concept on Freya Aswynn's blog. I'd heard about it before, but not really put much thought into it. Apparently it's fairly popular in Kaldera's Northern Paganism.
The idea is that you're as a slave to your gods; anything they tell you to do, you do.
What's everyone's views on this idea? I can see how it would appeal to the more submissive, but I'm not sure which Pagan gods would approve of this sort of thing.
The Northern gods, for example, like strength and pride in their followers. Our strength reflects their strength. When you stand before them, you stand on your feet, you don't drop to your knees and grovel.
It also makes one wonder what the gods would do if someone pledged themselves their slave. I can think of a few who might well consider this an experiment in seeing what they can make a human do... and how far they could push them before they said "no". If at all.
What are your opinions? What gods do you think would best appreciate the concept of a god-slave?
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:29 am
I have to agree in the case of the Nordic gods. I mean, I don't think all of them would completely screw someone in the slave position. I don't get the feeling that Frigg or Thorr would abuse that. However, then you get gods like Odinn, Loki, and for some reason I get the feeling that Skadhi would take advantage of someone in that state.
I definitely think that YHVH would enjoy the "slave" follower. And I don't mean that in an anti-Christian way.
Other than those...I don't feel too comfortable positing which deities would and would not react kindly to god-slavery xd
|
|
|
|
|
|
Violet Song jat Shariff Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:36 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:31 pm
 In Kemet the Gods weren't considered masters in the way you describe. In fact, the people would often threaten Them if they didn't bring a good harvest! I dunno what my stance is really. Most of the time, if asked, I will gladly do anything the Gods ask of me. Only if it goes against my moral code would I have a problem. But I would hope my Gods would accept and appreciate that I live by my code in order to get closer to Them in some ways.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:26 am
In some places i put it down to human nature.
say for instance a culture in the middle of the desert is not going to last just by doing what every one feels like, they need structure and with structure come obediance.eg: Harvest now, worship now, have sex don't have sex, kill, move the settlment away from the river at x time of the year. This sort of extreame obediance could be viewed as slavery but that is how that culture keeps on kepin' on.
that is how i see it any way
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:27 pm
xXrainbowrazorsXx In some places i put it down to human nature. say for instance a culture in the middle of the desert is not going to last just by doing what every one feels like, they need structure and with structure come obediance.eg: Harvest now, worship now, have sex don't have sex, kill, move the settlment away from the river at x time of the year. This sort of extreame obediance could be viewed as slavery but that is how that culture keeps on kepin' on. that is how i see it any way I'm not entirely sure how this relates to the OP...the examples you've given could be applied to any culture, really. I don't think folks did some of those thing because "omg hurrr my gawdz told meh 2!" but rather that was just how they did things to survive. I think a better example of what Sanguina is talking about is, for example, if one worshiped Freyja...and Freyja commanded "Go and have intercourse with 4 different men, dedicating each pleasurable event to me." Someone who considers themselves a god-slave would go and find 4 men she/he is comfortable enough with to do just that, with little to no questioning of Freyja.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Violet Song jat Shariff Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:20 pm
I'm sure some Gods would take advantage of that position but it's really up to you. I mean,you have to relize the difference between being fateful and being a slave. I'm not an expert but I belive that every person has free will and you get to decide wheather or not to do what your told.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:59 pm
Now, I've been studing up on the Hellenic pantheon and truthfully..
A lot of why they say is "Do or Die".
I mean, if anyone denied Dionysos, He turned them mad or made sure they paid. It's like that with several Hellenic deities.
But, I've also heard all you have to do is respect them. Show respect when ever you can..
I've never considered this concept of God-slave before and haven't worked with one long enough to have an opinion. Just from mythology.
So.. I'm really confused on this. Do you think some of the Hellenic deities would care for God-slaves?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:26 am
I think some of the Greek stuff has a lot to do with patron-client-esque relationships, hubris, stuff like that. But you're right, there are quite a few times when they really want something and you're ******** if you turn them down. Apollo comes to mind.
Maybe we should look at slaves in Greek society. Their slaves had it fairly good, as slavery goes, I mean. They could be pretty well treated, they could earn money, and they could save up and buy their freedom. I think killing a slave was still a crime... Socrates bitched about that to some guy or something. I forget.
Given the role of slaves in Greek society, yeah, maybe the concept of god-slavery does exist for them... but the Greek standard of slave, rather than one we commonly think of. Although then again, I'm not sure every Greek god would be all that keen on taking that sort of responsibility.
We'll have to ask Nuri, maybe wink
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:16 am
I'm actually under Nuri's Mentoring. She's helped me a lot when it comes to Hellenic Paganism. 3nodding
Though, this idea of God-slaves had me really stumped and wondering. sweatdrop But, I understand what you're saying.
Maybe it was only sometimes and only with certian deities? I'm going to re-read some more mythology just incase I'm getting something wrong or my sorces are screwed.
I have no doubt in my mind that if we can't figure this out, Nuri sure can.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:15 pm
Have a touch of personal experience on this subject so I will try to share what I can after some consideration, trying to figure out what is most needed to be said of what I know first, if anything, and right now it's getting very late.
For now I'll just put these two thoughts out there:
Among various cultures around the world that practice different forms of shamanism it's often believed that the spirits choose the shaman. Either the shaman elect accepts their calling, or is driven mad. Would take some efforts to cite the places I've seen this, but off the top of my head I know I read it at least in Harner's The Way Of The Shaman among other sources I can't place a name to at this hour.
History is full of people who have dedicated themselves to one deity or another in fashions that governed their entire lives, from those that tended the temples of Babylon to modern day Christian monks and nuns dedicating themselves to days filled with prayer and public service.
Mmm... yes... that much I can be sure of tonight... more later, night all!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:24 pm
DavarGrey Among various cultures around the world that practice different forms of shamanism it's often believed that the spirits choose the shaman. Either the shaman elect accepts their calling, or is driven mad. Would take some efforts to cite the places I've seen this, but off the top of my head I know I read it at least in Harner's The Way Of The Shaman among other sources I can't place a name to at this hour. What does this have to do with gods, though? Also, for the record: only the Siberian traditions properly practise what could be called "shamanism" wink Quote: History is full of people who have dedicated themselves to one deity or another in fashions that governed their entire lives, from those that tended the temples of Babylon to modern day Christian monks and nuns dedicating themselves to days filled with prayer and public service. Dedication and slavery are very different things. One can devotedly serve a master as a servant. One can be devoted as a spouse, family member, friend, companion, and comerade. None of these make one a slave. For example, knights would make oaths of devotion to their king, but they were not slaves by ANY stretch. It's a matter of personal definition about one's role in service, as well as about oneself. Many people serve as priests and priestesses, which are roles of service to deity. Few call themselves slaves. In fact I think I would question whether the role of a slave is appropriate to the duties of priesthood.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:59 pm
Sanguina Cruenta What does this have to do with gods, though? Also, for the record: only the Siberian traditions properly practise what could be called "shamanism" wink Similar level of influence over peoples lives, sometimes more immediate influence than the gods depending on the tradition. I know the word is Siberian in origin but still feel it can be used as a broad term to refer to a set of practices with too many similarities around the world to be coincidental. Quote: Dedication and slavery are very different things. One can devotedly serve a master as a servant. One can be devoted as a spouse, family member, friend, companion, and comerade. None of these make one a slave. For example, knights would make oaths of devotion to their king, but they were not slaves by ANY stretch. It's a matter of personal definition about one's role in service, as well as about oneself. Many people serve as priests and priestesses, which are roles of service to deity. Few call themselves slaves. In fact I think I would question whether the role of a slave is appropriate to the duties of priesthood. Pondered a response to this... but first how are we defining the word slave? Stopped myself remembering my own definition is a bit on the liberal side.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:32 am
I can't much say that I like the idea. A following should be out of free will, not out of slavery. I can't imagine any pantheon enjoying the status of their followers as slaves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:24 am
I'm going to answer using my personal definition of slave: A person who is owned by another.
It is a form of belonging to someone, a god in this case, that can't be rejected.
In a way you could say that a person belongs to their spouse, however in this case one generally has the right to leave. Though in some places one, generally the wife, effectively belongs to the spouse and is a slave by my definition.
Most gods do not care to own their humans, and those that are willing to take ownership of their followers generally do not want mindless slaves, they want thinking slaves.
Churches, on the other hand, may well want mindless slaves instead of thinking followers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
