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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:43 pm
Well, I am having trouble understanding the idea of reincarnation.
Especially when it comes to gender identity. I find the two incompatible. I researched some debates on this and what I found to be interesting was that someone claimed gender identity came solely from hormones and human conditioning and therefore had no effect whatsoever on the "spirit" or "essence". Another that one's "soul" has in fact some sort of gender itself. This leads to another question: is gender interchangable amoung the many lives?
What are your thoughts on this? How can gender identity fit into the belief of reincarnation?
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:30 am
I think I read somewhere that you reincarnate as both sexes to have the complete experience before you can reach...wherever.
My personal opinion? Gender identity is bull, there is no non-physical gender and believing so perpetuates sexism more than any other thing. My body is not my soul but a medium in which my soul exists that allows me to experience things I couldn't otherwise, namely the world of matter. Souls are also less like bodies and more like light. In my religion they're called lifewaves because, well, that's what they are. Flexible, ever changing, sentient waves. Therefore gender of any kind is irrelevant.
I'm not sure about other religions, but so far as I've seen they seem to be in agreement with me on the soul concept, though in different words.
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:11 am
To me, it is obvious that some "core personality" is a part of the soul.
However, the reason why most doesn't notice that, is because most Core personalities is very adaptable, and don't mind what gender they are born into, or what restrictions the culture they are born into, puts on them.
Insatialble Design just thought mentioned that "soul gender" would equal "soul personality". I say it isn't so. A soul may be at home in the designatéd gender, but not in the restrictions that the culture puts on that gender, and vice versa.
Essentially, a "male" soul may be ok in a male body, but may still dislike having to be "macho".
This is my impression/guess/opinion.
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:14 am
Insatiable Design I think I read somewhere that you reincarnate as both sexes to have the complete experience before you can reach...wherever. My personal opinion? Gender identity is bull, there is no non-physical gender and believing so perpetuates sexism more than any other thing. My body is not my soul but a medium in which my soul exists that allows me to experience things I couldn't otherwise, namely the world of matter. Souls are also less like bodies and more like light. In my religion they're called lifewaves because, well, that's what they are. Flexible, ever changing, sentient waves. Therefore gender of any kind is irrelevant. I'm not sure about other religions, but so far as I've seen they seem to be in agreement with me on the soul concept, though in different words. I believe gender identity is relevent. Though I do not think it comes from hormones, I do believe it comes from the mind. Now whether one believes the mind is solely connected to the body, is connected to the "soul", or is a seperate part of the "theta" completely, that is where it becomes tricky. Now my friend's theory on this is that one goes through lives as you said with a sexless "spirit", but the reactive mind (according to her, seperate from the "spirit" but still part of the "theta") holds experiences that are gender specific and therefore one might recall being a certain sex and behave as such.
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:25 am
Tiina Brown To me, it is obvious that some "core personality" is a part of the soul. However, the reason why most doesn't notice that, is because most Core personalities is very adaptable, and don't mind what gender they are born into, or what restrictions the culture they are born into, puts on them. Insatialble Design just thought mentioned that "soul gender" would equal "soul personality". I say it isn't so. A soul may be at home in the designatéd gender, but not in the restrictions that the culture puts on that gender, and vice versa. Essentially, a "male" soul may be ok in a male body, but may still dislike having to be "macho". This is my impression/guess/opinion. Genders are physical and are there to procreate. They do not translate into the spiritual realm because there is no need for them.
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:30 pm
Just thinking out loud. Sometimes I get lost in my thoughts and have to go back to square one.
There are differences between the female and male brains hence they have different ways of reasoning and functioning. Society bases gender roles on these differences.
Sexual attraction is formed by the need to procreate and the need to be close to another human being. This also comes from the body. I say this because we also observe it in animals.
Discrepancies between sex and sexual attraction come from the mind. Meaning the mind is not connected to the brain therefore leading to the assumption that there is more than just the body. The mind, we assume, must be connected to an "entity".
Therefore reincarnation is probable, yet the theory is not concrete. Why does one not remember past lives from birth? What blocks the infromation? The reactive mind?
And here is something else: Can an "entity" change species from life to life? Can humans reincarnate into animals? Can/Do animals have "souls"?
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
Brisbys_Stone Just thinking out loud. Sometimes I get lost in my thoughts and have to go back to square one. There are differences between the female and male brains hence they have different ways of reasoning and functioning. Society bases gender roles on these differences. Sexual attraction is formed by the need to procreate and the need to be close to another human being. This also comes from the body. I say this because we also observe it in animals. Discrepancies between sex and sexual attraction come from the mind. Meaning the mind is not connected to the brain therefore leading to the assumption that there is more than just the body. The mind, we assume, must be connected to an "entity". Therefore reincarnation is probable, yet the theory is not concrete. Why does one not remember past lives from birth? What blocks the infromation? The reactive mind? And here is something else: Can an "entity" change species from life to life? Can humans reincarnate into animals? Can/Do animals have "souls"? First, a response to your reply to me: To me, gender is not automatically about procreation, especially not any percieved "soul gender". Now to these wonderings/questions: * Mind you, once it was considered "manly" to cry. Guess how often men cried during those times? Once, red was a man's colour, and blue was a womans. I rather think Gender Roles are based on society and culture, and not the reverse. * Some do claim to remember past lives ... and those are usually fairly un-remarkable lives. Occasionally, those are of a different gender. * According to the historical variants of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judasism, Islam, Christianity), souls are only possessed by humans, as far as i know. I am not certain about "modern" interpetations, though. However. In Hinduism and Buddhism, the Religions/Mythologies that includes Reincarnation, a soul easily move both between gender and species. So there, all animals have souls, includiing flies and worms.
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:21 am
I agree with Brisbys_Stone. Why would a soul need a gender anyway?
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:16 pm
Artto I agree with Brisbys_Stone. Why would a soul need a gender anyway? Why would a soul need anything at all? Why would it need to take the form into any kind of being, at all? Technically, we might actually all be soul-less robots from that point of view. If souls do exist, though, i can find these three reaons for them to have something that may resemble gender, and that is: * Further variation. * A sense of something outside of the physical realm, either because it contrasts too much against the physical gender, or because it is so well-matched. * To learn the living that there are more variation to gender than is currently percieved.
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:36 am
If you're talking in Buddhist/Vedic principles you might want to look into what they actually consider the 'soul' or similar to be. I can tell you right now that the reasoning part of the brain and conditioning that is done to one by society has nothing to do with what either one considers the true self. Gender identity really has nothing to do with the 'self' they identify with.
You might want to look up Atman at least for Vedic/Hinduism. It's harder to explain in Buddhism. Buddhism has much more to say about what the self is not. I suppose looking into Buddha-nature might help there.
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:18 am
I give you my impression. I do not follow exactly Hinduistic or Abramic or any other currently official principles on what a soul is said to be. How could i, when they aren't the same? Also, my impression may not be the same as any of them, but rather a bit different, while still including both, in a way ... and still neither, depending on how one interpret it.
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:37 pm
Tiina Brown First, a response to your reply to me: To me, gender is not automatically about procreation, especially not any percieved "soul gender". Now to these wonderings/questions: * Mind you, once it was considered "manly" to cry. Guess how often men cried during those times? Once, red was a man's colour, and blue was a womans. I rather think Gender Roles are based on society and culture, and not the reverse. * Some do claim to remember past lives ... and those are usually fairly un-remarkable lives. Occasionally, those are of a different gender. * According to the historical variants of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judasism, Islam, Christianity), souls are only possessed by humans, as far as i know. I am not certain about "modern" interpetations, though. However. In Hinduism and Buddhism, the Religions/Mythologies that includes Reincarnation, a soul easily move both between gender and species. So there, all animals have souls, includiing flies and worms. Society and culture play a part, yes, but this is a game of Who came first: the chicken or the egg?... why did society put women and men in those roles in the first place? Divine instruction? No. Yes, and men in the days of Gilgamesh were straight yet had sex with their male friends. The culture and society change, but original gender roles? I do not believe so. Think back on cave men. Why did females not hunt and men watch the children? Edit: What I find difficult is that at one/two years of age one will know what gender one is, but will not be aware of past lives. How can gender identity be irrelevant there? Ok, say the soul is genderless and one is born knowing full well that she is a female. Someone may say "well she remembered that she was female in a previous life and therefore idenifies as female." To those i say if she recalled her femininity, why not her past life? What is the obstruction stopping people from remembering their past lives at young age? We have all heard of those who claim to remember past lives at age 16, 35, 50. Why at the later age?
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:06 am
Brisbys_Stone Tiina Brown First, a response to your reply to me: To me, gender is not automatically about procreation, especially not any percieved "soul gender". Now to these wonderings/questions: * Mind you, once it was considered "manly" to cry. Guess how often men cried during those times? Once, red was a man's colour, and blue was a womans. I rather think Gender Roles are based on society and culture, and not the reverse. * Some do claim to remember past lives ... and those are usually fairly un-remarkable lives. Occasionally, those are of a different gender. * According to the historical variants of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judasism, Islam, Christianity), souls are only possessed by humans, as far as i know. I am not certain about "modern" interpetations, though. However. In Hinduism and Buddhism, the Religions/Mythologies that includes Reincarnation, a soul easily move both between gender and species. So there, all animals have souls, includiing flies and worms. Society and culture play a part, yes, but this is a game of Who came first: the chicken or the egg?... why did society put women and men in those roles in the first place? Divine instruction? No. Yes, and men in the days of Gilgamesh were straight yet had sex with their male friends. The culture and society change, but original gender roles? I do not believe so. Think back on cave men. Why did females not hunt and men watch the children? Edit: What I find difficult is that at one/two years of age one will know what gender one is, but will not be aware of past lives. How can gender identity be irrelevant there? Ok, say the soul is genderless and one is born knowing full well that she is a female. Someone may say "well she remembered that she was female in a previous life and therefore idenifies as female." To those i say if she recalled her femininity, why not her past life? What is the obstruction stopping people from remembering their past lives at young age? We have all heard of those who claim to remember past lives at age 16, 35, 50. Why at the later age? First off, i may have expreesed myself clumsily in my eager to descibe my impression of what a soul is, and thereby explain how it might work. Second, a did not say "original gender roles", i mentioned "soul gender". Now to try explain how i see it more fully: I'm not sure if you will understand what i mean when i compare it to a painting, because i have noticed that some don't. Anyway: Your genetics, what you are born with, is the canvas, the area that you are supposed to paint on. Where you are born, however culture, all influences, decide your tools, what brushes you use, and what paints. But, the soul, is doing the painting, and it wants to put enough of itself in the painting, but sometimes the canvas don't fit, or the tools are wrong. Like, the soul has "female" soulgender, byt the canvas is shapes for a male ... or the other way around. or that the soul is trury ungendered, but the canvas is distincly much male or femme. This is just the shape, no personality, no "original gender roles", because those doesn't exist. Then, there is personality traits, of which most may be more dependent on the tools .... it may be hard to find the proper brushes, if ones environment keeps handing one a certain kind ... But still, the soul is doing the painting, as well as it can. .... Cavemen is not a good example, as too much of ... "male viewpoints" ... has influenced archeology. The rest ... i have either answered now, or i feel that i cannot, currently.
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:26 am
Tiina Brown .... Cavemen is not a good example, as too much of ... "male viewpoints" ... has influenced archeology. What? So you think females hunted mastodons, and males picked berries and looked after the children? That would be completely in contradiction with common sense.
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:46 am
Artto Tiina Brown .... Cavemen is not a good example, as too much of ... "male viewpoints" ... has influenced archeology. What? So you think females hunted mastodons, and males picked berries and looked after the children? That would be completely in contradiction with common sense. Studies on the Hazda people and the Australian aborigines suggests that sexual division of labor was much more flexible. This is an area of disagreement among paleologist since we know very little about how "caveman" societies were typically organized. Steven Kuhn from the University of Arizona seems to think that sexual division of labor didn't exist until the Upper Paleolithic era.
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