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So, does anyone even check this subforum?

They should be checking every forum in the guilds. I'm trying to keep the guild a bit more organized by putting topics in their correct places. The front page always lists newest topics and topics that have posts in them, so people will start checking the forums as long as there are people posting.

I know a lot of people will disagree with me here and that's fine. Basically, I am selective in the information I trust with mythology or history because we are trusting man to record these things. When it is the victors that write history. smile

Then you have the various re-translations and things lost in translation. Now, some deities didn't get hit very hard with misinformation and things being lost in translation. Others have though. As for which ones, well... I guess that's a matter of personal opinion honestly.

Please understand I have no problem whatsoever if you disagree. I like differences to discuss as long as things remain relaxed. Humanity has wasted too much energy arguing over differences for me to want to bitterly argue differences over an internet forum. xD That'd be one big waste of time. I'm simply explaining where I come from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chastity

Chastity refers to the sexual behavior of a man or woman acceptable to the moral standards and guidelines of a culture, civilization or religion. In the Western world, the term has become closely associated (and is often used interchangeably) with sexual abstinence, especially before marriage.[1] However, the term remains applicable to persons in all states, single or married, clerical or lay, and has implications beyond sexual temperance.

I don't believe that chastity has to do with only sex. if sex is included in the culture's current definition of what is decent modest behavior then you could have sex and still be chaste. I think the definition of chastity having to do with sexuality was popularized over the years because of Christian influence.

Also, I've never really been one to take ancient text word for word. I question things and I challenge tradition. If something doesn't feel right then I ask why. Athena being a virgin and not having sex never felt right to me. It never seemed to click into place and always felt out of place.

I see the higher powers as powerful spirits, Gods, Goddesses or whatever other titles they may have. I don't believe a lot of the mythology has remained true to form and I am positive there are things left out in every mythology.

Then there are deities being given different faces as they are rewritten for a different culture. Or like the story of Athena challenging Poseidon for Athens. That very well could have been symbolic of two nations or lands fighting over what Deity/Temple to put in Athens and nothing to do with Athena or Poseidon at all but merely a dispute between their followers.

I see Athena as a warrior Goddess. Warriors have a darker a side. I personally believe she was rewritten to make the image of a female warrior more acceptable to society. Even the statues where she is portrayed as more masculine bother me.

But, that's just me. This is where I'm coming from and I know people will disagree. All I really encourage anyone to do is find their own way really.

Good question. ... I like you! biggrin

a good question and a bit of devil's advocate is rarely if ever a bad thing.

Well, I'm going to have to get back to that question with some references later. In the meantime though I'll share what I've experienced though and what I've found in the hopes that will suffice for now.

She knows how to wage war but prefers using wisdom to solve conflicts instead of waging war. Now, this dips into my personal views a little bit but I'll get to a point. I believe we as humans have a metaphorical or if you are otherkin spiritual beast inside of us. When we learn self defense to a point where during a fight our instincts take over. We find out exactly what we're capable of.

I find the horrific truth about humanity is our adaptability to situations. Soldiers come back from war and are very aware of their darker side and they fight it. Some, don't come back entirely sane and others can't handle the psychological/emotional pressure.

Why would this have been any different for warriors back then who went to war? Bottom line, war is ugly. So, if humanity experiences this and suffers this. Then surely warrior, hunter(tress), defender and guardian Gods and Goddesses of all sort(Input appropriate example) would be aware of the darker side brought out by instincts. More so, I believe they would have the same darker within themselves although differently in some ways due to their reality and it would be harder to bring out that side of them because they've had a lot more practice controlling it than some mortal.

I must confess, I have not read all of the books where Athena is mentioned. I do remember a specific instance in the Odyssey though where Athena approaches her father Zeus with a long winded speech about her helping Odysseus. Zeus basically says, "You're going to do what you want anyways. Why are you coming to me for this?"

Then, she proceeds to meddle and interfere basically helping Odysseus get into a position where he can brutally slaughter all of his wife's suitors. Athena was also angry/displeased at his son not handling things more. While on a more subtle level I feel her role in the Odyssey displays hints of her darker side as well as a disregard for rules when it comes to people or something she cares about.

I hope this is enough to give fuel for continued discussion until I delve deeper into this.

smile Thank you for posting.

cool Oh how I am loving this conversation. biggrin Yes! I like that. I need to stop being lazy and get ready for a party I'm going to. However, I do plan on coming back with more examples and thoughts.

Haha no that's fine smile I don't have much more to say. It was more like a reaction to what ever you said.

And that is true, both what you said of how people are afraid to embrace their shadow selfs and how terms must be taken into the context of the time. But to embrace that darker side of oneself is to know oneself completely and without judgement. However in the society we live in today, either over sexualized, or too rigid, puts the younger generations into a position that makes is harder for this to be done. Emotions, thoughts, and ideas that may be a part of ones shadow self or even just a part of themselves are pushed aside or repressed to fit into societies idea of normal. Children are going on for years suppressing their imagination, their dreams, and their view of the world (not the naive but that of someone who questions). And this is bad, harming themselves and the world.

And even though some are leery of working with the darker facets of the gods they are surrounding themselves with then they are only blinding themselves and can be setting themselves up for harm (due to a back fire of some sort). Yet, some people are leery of working with darker gods because they see them as too dark and not seeing all sides of the god.