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 Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:15 am
cease to exist after Illyria took over her body? They said that her soul was obliterated bringing Illyria into the world. If her soul was destroyed, was she still able to move on to a heavenly dimension, or is she absolutely nowhere? And if Fred did cease to exist, does that mean that Wesley went to a heavenly dimension and didn't get reunited with her? What do you think?
I think it's entirely possible that Fred ceased to exist. Which makes Wesley's death even sadder. sad But, I somehow think that Fred's soul was not so much destroyed as it was integrated into Illyria, which is why she was able to act just like Fred and feel emotion...
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:12 pm
*starts to pout*.... that's a sad thought.... and i don't know the answer... but, .......that would really suck, but is probably true that she just ceased to exist....rrrr.......
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:14 pm
Didn't Illyria say something about them reuniting in the after life? I think that Fred was still around. Kinda hard to compleatly distroy a soul. How about a vampire? What happened to the soul when they get turned? We know that it's still around cuase how would Angel and Spike have their's if their soul were oblierated by the demon that takes their place.
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:39 pm
Triska Didn't Illyria say something about them reuniting in the after life? I think that Fred was still around. Kinda hard to compleatly distroy a soul. How about a vampire? What happened to the soul when they get turned? We know that it's still around cuase how would Angel and Spike have their's if their soul were oblierated by the demon that takes their place. Yeah, she did say that while she was being Fred for Wesley, which is why I was wondering. When they extracted Angel's soul in the 4th season, they said that the soul just floats around in the ether when it's taken out. So it still exists, just in some sort of soul waiting room. But they said they couldn't bring Fred back because her soul was burnt up in the fires of eternity when Illyria took over. It's just sort of ambiguous what that all means...
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:12 pm
fred's soul was destroyed, Illeryia had her memories, which is why she could act just like her
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:45 pm
I didn't see that epasode. But what if that whole thing was said to convince them not to try?
Also, how can one feel the memories if there is no soul to extract them from. She had Fred's memories, AND feelings towards those memories.
I don't know. Maybe I'm over analizing a script.
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:03 pm
Triska I didn't see that epasode. But what if that whole thing was said to convince them not to try? Also, how can one feel the memories if there is no soul to extract them from. She had Fred's memories, AND feelings towards those memories. I don't know. Maybe I'm over analizing a script. I wondered about that too. One very untrustworthy doctor said it, and I don't know why they just took it at face value. And, yes, I agree. I understand how Illyria could have Fred's memories and recall them almost as if they were her own memories. But the reason I think maybe Fred's soul integrated with Illyria or is still somehow stuck in Illyria is because Illyria was able to mimic Fred so completely that her own parents were fooled. I don't think you can get an entire personality out of mere memories. Over-analyzing is fun! wink
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:40 pm
I don't think it's possible to over-analyze any Joss Whedon series. Little things in those scripts can mean a LOT sweatdrop
Anyway...it's sad to think that her soul was destroyed, but I'm pretty sure it was @_@
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Satans Sweetest Angel Crew
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:06 pm
Oh sad thoughts a come'n!
crying
I don't think someones soul can just *poof* obliterate, it's that persons complete essence and life force. Its them. I think when they say its gone, maybe they mean its moved onto a place where you can't bring it back?
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:38 am
izzygirlxp Oh sad thoughts a come'n! crying I don't think someones soul can just *poof* obliterate, it's that persons complete essence and life force. Its them. I think when they say its gone, maybe they mean its moved onto a place where you can't bring it back? That could be it right there.
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Satans Sweetest Angel Crew
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:30 am
izzygirlxp Oh sad thoughts a come'n! crying I don't think someones soul can just *poof* obliterate, it's that persons complete essence and life force. Its them. I think when they say its gone, maybe they mean its moved onto a place where you can't bring it back?
And, yeah, a person's soul is their life essence, but it wouldn't be doing Fred much good. I think it's that it ceased to exist, at all, Fred's gone and the only thing left is the memories stored in her brain that Illyria took over.
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:23 pm
Satans Sweetest Angel I think it's too much to assume Joss would let someone be happy, even just their soul sweatdrop I think you can obliterate someone's soul if you have the power, and quite frankly, I'd say that Illyria would have that power.
And, yeah, a person's soul is their life essence, but it wouldn't be doing Fred much good. I think it's that it ceased to exist, at all, Fred's gone and the only thing left is the memories stored in her brain that Illyria took over. I'd like to believe that even Joss wouldn't be so cruel, but I wouldn't put it past him. I do agree that if anyone would be able to obliterate a soul, it would be Illyria. But like I said, I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that Illyria could recreate Fred so easily with just her memories. I feel like there has to be more there than just that. Also, I wonder... Even though Angel's and Spike's souls still existed in the ether, they were soulless for most of their "lives." That also makes me wonder if they could have found a way to bring back Fred, but since her soul would be gone, she'd come back evil. Evil Fred might have been interesting. 3nodding (But I really like Illyria, so I'm content with the way they went about it)
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:15 pm
Joss... How could you? *runs of to find Joss's adress and a sludgehammer*
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:23 pm
I wondered about that too. They did say her soul would be gone otherwise I don't think Wesley would have been sooo depressed. He did ask Illyria to lie to him in the last episode. Do you think that it was a lie when she said [as Fred] that they'd be together again in heaven or something.
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:54 am
ayruh I wondered about that too. They did say her soul would be gone otherwise I don't think Wesley would have been sooo depressed. He did ask Illyria to lie to him in the last episode. Do you think that it was a lie when she said [as Fred] that they'd be together again in heaven or something. I think they stuck that in there mostly because they didn't want there to be any possibility of bringing Fred back. It's possible that Illyria was just lying to him to put his mind at ease when she said they'd be together, but I'd hate to think how disappointed Wesley would be if he did reach heaven and she wasn't there. sad Wesley's love for Fred was so complete and all-consuming that I think that even if he was in heaven, he wouldn't be truly happy unless she was there with him.
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