|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:55 pm
I know that this has not been an issue yet, but it will probably be later on: Fighting between characters. So, what do I mean by that? Well...
A fight between characters can sometimes be a great way to further the story or flesh out a character (or just have some fun), but in the way we play now it will only be frustrating. We have just about no puppeting at all and in order for a duel to be well written (which is what we strife for in this guild, after all) puppeting must occur to a high degree. It doesn't make sense that one person posts that she strikes and then must wait for the other to post the block. Instead, I have another idea... Or, two actually.
First idea is that the persons fighting agree on who will win and the general outline of the fight before they write their posts. This way they can puppet each other all they want and still arrive at a conclusion they have agreed on. Now, while this is fast and fair way of settling fights, there is another way that is a bit more about actual competition.
A referee begins the duel and decides which fighter should begin. The chosen fighter posts a long nice post where the battle is begun and the other fighter is puppeted. Then the other fighter posts, continuing where the first left off. Just like a regular RP. The fighters post a total of two or three posts each and then the first fighter writes an ending post. After that, the other fighter also posts an ending post, beginning from the same place as the first. When this is done, the fight is evaluated by the referee (looking at the quality of writing, how well the player stays with the character, how well the playe can puppet and so on) and the winner is declared. The winners final post is the official one.
So, what do you say? Is this anything interesting at all to think about? Doeas anybody else have any suggestions as how to RP a fight in a literate manner?
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:06 pm
In Non-Magical Self-Defense, I will mediate the duels UNLESS the duo PMs me prior to the fight to let me know who they want to win. And just because someone else is deciding whether or not a block or strike was successful doesn't mean that all posting must be shot to Hell.
Students can still post a full description of their manuevers instead of just crapping out and saying, "Alauniira tries to punch Jedrek in the face." And leaving it at that.
Honestly, I would PREFER that students just talk to each other and tell me who they want to win. I only offer the mediation idea to stop more dominant personalities from overwhelming the less experienced. At first, I had planned to just let people duel, and then intervene when I felt one student was godmoding. But, I decided against that because, should I do it to one student and not another, it would alienate them.
If you all wish for me to just stop you when you step out of line, then, by all means, let me know, and it will be so.
Until that point, I still reserve the right to control fights in Non-Magical Self-Defense. I'm doing it for a reason, and there will come a point when I don't have to anymore. Still, on just starting out, I have chosen to do it this way.
I am just assuming that this post was directed at me because my classroom thread was the first one to bring up the point of having mediated duels.
I understand what you are saying, Szandrah, but there is also a difference between having one class in which duels are mediated and having ALL fights mediated. If someone wants to duel outside of class, they can knock themselves out... literally. But in my classroom, it is my decision. Of course, if everyone wants to unanimously decide to just have me correct individuals when I feel they step out of line with an OOC direction to edit the post, then just tell me.
Thanks. ^_^
|
|
|
|
|
|
Akina Tokuwa Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:17 pm
Hmm..
I like Akina's idea.
When I first read what was going to happen in that class,
I wasn't too keen about it
Heh ^_^
But...
After she explained, it seemed fine to me.
As for outside.
I don't think the other character, personally, should be puppeted.
Sorry, I'm extremely sensitive with my characters.
It's one thing for Akina to determine who blocks and hits,
But it's another for somebody else to puppet another's character...
I'm sorry,
I have based Hanille off of myself,
And I, like Hanille, don't trust people enough to let them do that...
I believe they would screw me over and the like...
Mmm..
What to do...what to do...
It's good that we're addressing this now,
So when the time comes,
We will be ready...
Hmm...
Let me get back to you on this...
I need some thinking to do...
((By the way...Post for Fire Elemental Magic! Inside Forum! Can't miss it wink .))
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:22 pm
I would think that all fights -outside- of a class just kind of depend on the people involved, eh?
I thought that Szandrah was referring to classes, but I might be mistaken? ^_^''
|
|
|
|
|
|
Akina Tokuwa Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:20 pm
Note: This does not apply to those who HAVE posted.
Post for Fire Elemental Magic...
Or I'll assassinate you!
Grr!!!
Thank you for your time ^_^
~Haelix
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:37 pm
[Warning, may contain rant]
My two coin thingies... I like Szandrah's idea. I'll use the fire elemental class as example why. No one has posted. Many times people can't post one after the other rapid style fashion, or they don't post at all, so a single, simple fight could take a week or more.
I spar a good bit, and per match, before a half point is scored, there's usually at least thirty, forty blows. Even if we do one round, that's quite a few posts. That's why the single attack single blow idea scares me. Maybe it would be less, with magic or weapons, and if so, then the one action at a time style will work great
(a half point is a solid blow to either the head or body, unblocked. Could be lethal if fully extended, etc, In any case, the first to reach one, or a full point, wins the round)
The first idea, is a good one for people who don't want their characters touched. I understand that feeling that only you control your character, and that idea is a perfect way to fight, while doing that. You agree before hand, and nothing happens to you that you don't like. Absoulute control of character.
Still, in a fight, a lot happens that you don't like. I had my nose broken once, that's a good illustration. I didn't really want that to happen, but it did. That's part of roleplaying with others. You get things that you didn't expect or create, or perhaps even don't like. Roleplaying is when you act on or react to things done by others. You could write a story by yourself if you're not willing to interact with others.
You might argue that letting the other person practically write out the fight while you write out a different version is just writing your own story. But I'd say that's actually more in the role playing style. You take a role in a world, one you don't necessarily control. The elements tht you don't control are what make it so fun. The second idea introduces those elements very strongly, making the world, a bit more out of their control, and more realistic.
The second idea is very appealing to me. I think it merits a bit of attention, I'd like to maybe try it out, iron out any bugs it may have. It's a good good way to reduce the number of posts needed, and if you really hate what the other person has done with you, you can object to the referee. You could perhaps even mesh the various ideas together, agree before hand on the outcome, then try this out.
Obviously writing skill couldn't be the only thing though, if Mine were to fight against Jedreek (without her exploding, literally), she would, almost undoubtedly lose, no matter how well she can write. These would be the kind of details we'd play around with if this idea were implemented.
But I think we could work things like that out fairly easily.
[/rant]
*deep breath* Okay, I'm done with my rant. It's really up to the people dueling, and even more so, the teachers in each class. Just, think on the merits of this idea. Take care everyone, feel free to comment on my opinion.
I'm a martial artist, I've been a full time practicioner for the last six and a half years, so my apologies if I randomly draw off of that experience.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:30 pm
Jedrek cannot be damaged by fire.
<3333
So her blowing up wouldn't hurt him. that's why they're perfect for one another!
AWWWWWWWWWWWWW. *gags* Hehe
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:39 pm
I did mean any character fighting situation in the RP, in class or not.
How, more exactly, will the fighting be in your class, Akina? Should people post first and you mediate later or will you draw up the framework of the fight first and have us flesh it out? Should we write longer posts (which is really the basic idea with this RP) or shorter ones? Longer posts must contain some puppeting, or it will be impossible to write.
I have actually used method 2 in duels and it works really good. It is a great way to practise not only writing in itself but also writing from the viewpoint of another character and - perhaps the most important of all - trust.
I personally think that puppeting is a good and necessary tool in writing a great RP with high literate value. I mean, if we claim to write a literate RP, isn't the story more important than our characters?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:06 pm
JayceeMendaci Obviously writing skill couldn't be the only thing though, if Mine were to fight against Jedreek (without her exploding, literally), she would, almost undoubtedly lose, no matter how well she can write. Yes. Therefore she would probably loose in her own post as well. The winning finishing post may very well end in the same general way as the loosing one, but with different details. I have written winning finishing posts where I have been defeated by superior foes. If Miné in her own post wins against Jedrek in a non-plausible way it would be bad writing and her ending would not be considered the official one. Understanding how a plausible story is written is a part of good writing, as is letting your character be defeated when it should be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:16 pm
Szandrah I mean, if we claim to write a literate RP, isn't the story more important than our characters? Kudos. Trust isn't quite as necessary for a literate RP, but that is. As haughty and arrogant as Jaycee is, he very well could die if I thought it were best for the story. I love the character, and would probably scramble for a new one, but for example, if in self defense class someone makes a mistake... I could very easily see Jaycee dead. Just to see what would hapeen with the story. An RP is about creating something. Not apart, one piece at a time, but together, with a goal in mind. It's not about a person, or people. It's about a world.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Akina Tokuwa Vice Captain
|
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:21 pm
Szandrah I did mean any character fighting situation in the RP, in class or not. I just assumed it was directed at the classroom since no one person has any bearing over what happens between two totally different people outside of class. Szandrah How, more exactly, will the fighting be in your class, Akina? Should people post first and you mediate later or will you draw up the framework of the fight first and have us flesh it out? Should we write longer posts (which is really the basic idea with this RP) or shorter ones? Longer posts must contain some puppeting, or it will be impossible to write. Impossible to write? Hardly, unless you lack literacy, which, obviously, none of us do. A fighter describes their emotions and all the actions behind a single strike, which if you are a good writer, is at the -very- least two paragraphs. I had planned to explain dueling completely in my class when it became necessary, but for the sake of those who seemed vexed, I will touch on it now. When there is a fight, I will assign partners. Then, if those two wish, they may decide amongst themselves who they want to win, and then the answer can be PMed to me. In that event, they can RP the battle themselves. Or, in some cases, I will announce at the beginning who will win, which is something that I do NOT want to do, but I can if someone asks. If you duel in my class, your post should be at LEAST one paragraph, as per the guild rules. If you can't manage that, then you probably need to reconsider being in this guild. Depending on how much time I have, I will change the style of the dueling to suit the situation. The term puppeting in misapplied here. The students are responsible for the actions, and whoever roleplays it better, whoever provides the best set up for why their block or strike would hit, will be successful. Szandrah I have actually used method 2 in duels and it works really good. It is a great way to practise not only writing in itself but also writing from the viewpoint of another character and - perhaps the most important of all - trust. I personally think that puppeting is a good and necessary tool in writing a great RP with high literate value. I mean, if we claim to write a literate RP, isn't the story more important than our characters? I believe that the characters MAKE the story, and as for the comment about trust, it is entirely unapplicable. This isn't about trust. This is about how I -personally- want to run my classroom duels, and I am being highly involved in them for a reason. I resent having to justify decisions that I have made for my classroom. I will not slight any student, and I believe that it will simply be more organized with someone in an outside party controlling the start and finish. This is one class. If you have made this thread to finalize how ALL duels should be run, then that's fine, but I very much feel that this was made because you are unsatisfied with the decision that I made for my classroom. If I am wrong, then great. I will keep doing what I said I would from the beginning and let others hash it out themselves, but judging by what you have said to me, I strongly feel I am right in feeling that this is directed at what I said for my classroom. Please let me know if I am wrong. But yes, I will run my duels as I said from the beginning. I believe I have explained myself several times so... that should be the end of this debate for me. Just trust me and my decision. As you said, trust is the most important aspect of roleplay.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:48 am
Akina Tokuwa This is one class. If you have made this thread to finalize how ALL duels should be run, then that's fine, but I very much feel that this was made because you are unsatisfied with the decision that I made for my classroom. If I am wrong, then great. I will keep doing what I said I would from the beginning and let others hash it out themselves, but judging by what you have said to me, I strongly feel I am right in feeling that this is directed at what I said for my classroom. Please let me know if I am wrong. Yes, you are wrong. smile I think that having you mediate is a great idea. It's somewhat close to idea 2, depending a bit on how you do it. Akina Tokuwa I just assumed it was directed at the classroom since no one person has any bearing over what happens between two totally different people outside of class. Well, there are basically three way to deal with that. First, we could simply vote for it, but it's a bit of a slow system. Second, we could let the guild moderators (cherry and Akina) judge. Third, we could appoint battle judges that can be asked to moderate any duel. Akina Tokuwa A fighter describes their emotions and all the actions behind a single strike, which if you are a good writer, is at the -very- least two paragraphs. The problem with this is that it will be REALLY slow and have a lot of text that is just there to fill out the space. I could write a long nice post where I describe exactly how my body twists to give my punch maximum momentum and reach, how my elbow is kept low to not give away the strike and how I lower my head and give it shelter with my other arm to be ready for blocking. This is just a basic punch that, in a normal fight, will be repeated quite often. To roleplay each strike and block like this would be tedious and it would generate text that really doesn't move the story along. Szandrah I have actually used method 2 in duels and it works really good. It is a great way to practise not only writing in itself but also writing from the viewpoint of another character and - perhaps the most important of all - trust. I personally think that puppeting is a good and necessary tool in writing a great RP with high literate value. I mean, if we claim to write a literate RP, isn't the story more important than our characters? I believe that the characters MAKE the story, and as for the comment about trust, it is entirely unapplicable. Akina Tokuwa This isn't about trust. This is about how I -personally- want to run my classroom duels, and I am being highly involved in them for a reason. I resent having to justify decisions that I have made for my classroom. I will not slight any student, and I believe that it will simply be more organized with someone in an outside party controlling the start and finish. Exactly. You acting judge is the way it should be in there. It's a good and efficient way of running a duel, as long as the duel does not become to chopped up. Akina Tokuwa But yes, I will run my duels as I said from the beginning. I believe I have explained myself several times so... that should be the end of this debate for me. Just trust me and my decision. As you said, trust is the most important aspect of roleplay. And I do trust you. Like I already said, this was a general question and I adressed everyone. If I had only wanted to adress you I would have PM:ed. I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, I didn't mean to make it sound like an attack on you. Your method is basically what I wanted (but I want longer posts) in the first place, but since your class might not be the only place we'll fight in (maybe it will be, we can't know yet) I wanted to discuss this so that we're prepared when the right time comes. I was a member of the Dark Jedi Brotherhood a few years back and they have a lot of duels there. That's where I got method 2 from. If you want to see what I mean and how a small bit of puppeting really can help the writing without being to controlling, just look here: http://www.darkjedibrotherhood.com/dbjedi/acc/battle.asp?ID=2603These are the rules: http://www.darkjedibrotherhood.com/dbjedi/acc/rules.aspSome parts are StarWars specific and can be skipped, but some of them apply to the posting, what is allowed and how one can win. This is the main hall: http://www.darkjedibrotherhood.com/dbjedi/acc/hall.asp?id=4You find ongoing and finished battles here. Surely we won't need such an elaborate forum system since we'll probably not have that many fights, but it might give you some ideas on how you might want the fighting to be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Akina Tokuwa Vice Captain
|
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:23 pm
Sorry if I seemed short, Szandrah. It's just that my class was the very first to make mention of how a duel would be run so when this thread popped up I assumed it to have to do with that. (I thought that perhaps when Scarlet made her post involving a similiar dueling setup you may have been concerned that this was going to be a trend.) Otherwise, I would have thought this concern would have already surfaced a long time ago.
I think that classroom duels are up to the professor, but out of classroom duels should be individually decided by each student. Of course, I think the consent rule applies in all these situations. (The consent rule, for those of you who don't know, just basically means that you and the other RPer involved have discussed OOCly what is going to happen. Basically, there is no random attacks ICly unless both parties know it is going to happen.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:01 am
I've only been involved in the sort of slow back and forth battles described earlier. When these techniques for rping a duel were first described to me, I was suspicious and worried about how this would turn out. However, with the way y'all are debating and hammering out what's fair and ethical I'm certainly willing to try something new and help make this work. Thanks Ladies and Gents for working so hard at this. I kinda got lost though and don't feel that I have much to contribute so I'm going to trust y'all to work out a standard suggestion/guideline/rule? for the guild.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:50 pm
Akina Tokuwa [...] I would have thought this concern would have already surfaced a long time ago. I have been thinking about it for a while, but there hasn't really been any fighting between characters yet so I never posted anything. Your class did make me think about it again, but it was not ment as negative critique in any way. Akina Tokuwa I think that classroom duels are up to the professor, but out of classroom duels should be individually decided by each student. I agree, everyone in here seem to be able to handle a situation like this without enforced rules. I just wanted to discuss some options for playing out fights.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
