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[gossamer]!smile.
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:49 pm


***** is the attraction to children. Ephebophilia has been defined as a sexual preference in which an adult is primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to adolescents. What is the difference between a child and an adolescent? Is it puberty or age, or both? Many say that ***** itself is a mental disorder, and it is even defined as one. But keep in mind that homosexuality was once labeled as a mental disorder as well.

What makes a ***** relationship bad? A thirteen year old and a twenty year old dating, and possibly being closer than that…what’s wrong with it? Ignorance isn’t an excuse. Children can learn about sex just as easily as adults can. Education is a great equalizer, and if we started teaching children about sex sooner, other than make them learn on their own, do you think they’d be better suited to handle a sexual or just emotionally deep relationship?

{I’ll add more later, trust me.
I’m experiencing writer’s block at the moment.}
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:54 pm


I'd have to say there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it. Much depends on the situation and the intent/actions of the people involved.

There is at least one culture which advocates and openly practices this. I'll have to dig out one of my old sociology books for a citation, perhaps within the next few days.

Elf Lord Chiewn


[gossamer]!smile.
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:54 am


Elf Lord Chiewn
I'd have to say there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it. Much depends on the situation and the intent/actions of the people involved.

There is at least one culture which advocates and openly practices this. I'll have to dig out one of my old sociology books for a citation, perhaps within the next few days.

I beleive it is India.
=/
Not quite sure.
I do know, however,
that Canada's consent age is 14.
I think it should be down to 13,
but it's closer than nothing.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:29 am


Its all about the parents going into an insane protective spell over thier childs virginity. If the child were to have sex with someone thier age, it would still be messed up and wrong to them.

Then of course we have the Bratz, with a passion for whore fashion. They dress this little girls up in thongs and clear heels like a ten dollar whore, then get so outraged when the child expreses sexual feelings. Its like dangeling a piece of meat in front of a starving man and telling him that hes a wierdo for wanting to eat it.

Then theres the liberals, dont even get me started on them.

Tetsudai
Crew


FlexibleCottonSwabs

Lunatic

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:05 am


[My first every post in this Guild! Yay! ^_^]

Well, typically, people think it is wrong because of our upbringing. I know a frined who is having a -not sexual- relationship with a 20 year old. They're happy. *****?] is not wrong, unless the ***** is being evil to the other.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:34 pm


No balance. The majority of teens and younger think they are a lot smarter and wiser than they really are. Yes, there are those rare exceptions, but the law cannot be written with exceptions for the most part.
Most kids are easily duped. Lets face it. We don't let kids drive without a mentor in the car until they are at least sixteen. You want us to let them have sex?
The other reason is even simpler. The kids are their parents responsibility. The parents are there to guide their child, and make sure that they are on the path to becoming a contributing member of society, with the time to go out and experience life on their own when they reach maturity.
A ***** can fantasize as much as they want. But the moment they touch a kid, they become a child molestor.

BlueCollarJoe


RMarques

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:55 am


BlueCollarJoe
No balance. The majority of teens and younger think they are a lot smarter and wiser than they really are. Yes, there are those rare exceptions, but the law cannot be written with exceptions for the most part.
Most kids are easily duped. Lets face it. We don't let kids drive without a mentor in the car until they are at least sixteen. You want us to let them have sex?
The other reason is even simpler. The kids are their parents responsibility. The parents are there to guide their child, and make sure that they are on the path to becoming a contributing member of society, with the time to go out and experience life on their own when they reach maturity.
A ***** can fantasize as much as they want. But the moment they touch a kid, they become a child molestor.


Hit the nail right in the head. Besides, even if the itentions of the adult part aren't malicious, I have serious doubts a child, no matter how educated, can handle, or even understand the emotional side of a serious relationship. This goes for many/most teens too.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:41 pm


BlueCollarJoe
No balance. The majority of teens and younger think they are a lot smarter and wiser than they really are.

So sex is reserved for the wise?
Why is that?


Quote:
but the law cannot be written with exceptions for the most part.

That depends.
If there's a type of food out there that can kill 1 out of 1000 people instantly, I'm sure there'd be a law written to protect those people. It could be complete banning, or something else.

And really, the AoC laws were written for the "exceptions". About three generations ago, "kids" my age were marrying and screwing. But a few of them didn't like it (blame Christian morals [nothing against Christians as a whole] ) and so a law was written to ban it indefinately.

I think that the age of consent should be reduced, simply because the "kids" that do want sex can find someone to have it with, and the kids that don't want to...don't have to.


Quote:
Most kids are easily duped. Lets face it.

So are adults.

Quote:
We don't let kids drive without a mentor in the car until they are at least sixteen. You want us to let them have sex?

That's different, seeing as driving takes alot of practice that can only be given with the help of a mentor, and takes more motor skills (no pun intended). Sex and relationships are learning expiriences that should be left up to the individual.

Quote:
The other reason is even simpler. The kids are their parents responsibility.

That's another argument, but I'll put the gist of it here.
Adults are (or at least should be) there to give food, shelter and schooling. I think they should nudge the kid into the direction they want them to do to, but anything other than that is pushing their morals onto a highly impressionable human being, which is dangerous.


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The parents are there to guide their child,

To guide- not to control.

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and make sure that they are on the path to becoming a contributing member of society,

How will sex make them a member of society that doesn't contribute?

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with the time to go out and experience life on their own when they reach maturity.

People mature differently.

[gossamer]!smile.
Vice Captain


RMarques

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:59 pm


[gossamer]!smile.
BlueCollarJoe
No balance. The majority of teens and younger think they are a lot smarter and wiser than they really are.

So sex is reserved for the wise?
Why is that?


STDs and unwanted pregnancies are two very good reasons IMHO.

Quote:
but the law cannot be written with exceptions for the most part.

That depends.
If there's a type of food out there that can kill 1 out of 1000 people instantly, I'm sure there'd be a law written to protect those people. It could be complete banning, or something else.

1 out of 1000. I doubt the porpotion of kids that are mature enough to handle a relationship with an adult vs those that can't reaches that much.

Quote:
And really, the AoC laws were written for the "exceptions". About three generations ago, "kids" my age were marrying and screwing. But a few of them didn't like it (blame Christian morals [nothing against Christians as a whole] ) and so a law was written to ban it indefinately.


Actually, in many states, teenage marriage is still legal, they just need the parent's consent. People our age where forced to marry, mostly because of the parent's interests, raped girl marrying to avoid shame, etc.

Quote:
I think that the age of consent should be reduced, simply because the "kids" that do want sex can find someone to have it with, and the kids that don't want to...don't have to.


And, what exacly is preventing them to find someone their own age?

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Most kids are easily duped. Lets face it.

So are adults.


And in the matters of sex, the one that is more likely to be screwed (no pun intended) in the end, is the child.

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We don't let kids drive without a mentor in the car until they are at least sixteen. You want us to let them have sex?

That's different, seeing as driving takes alot of practice that can only be given with the help of a mentor, and takes more motor skills (no pun intended). Sex and relationships are learning expiriences that should be left up to the individual.


Yes, and they both can ruin your life if you're not carefull, adults, with all the education they're suposed to get get in trouble because of those, what the hell is a child suposed to do better?

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The other reason is even simpler. The kids are their parents responsibility.
Quote:

That's another argument, but I'll put the gist of it here.
Adults are (or at least should be) there to give food, shelter and schooling. I think they should nudge the kid into the direction they want them to do to, but anything other than that is pushing their morals onto a highly impressionable human being, which is dangerous.


Well then, we shouldn't teach them about stealing, killing, cheating, and other things to be wrong. After all, it's forcing our morals on an impressionable human being! Damn those parents!!!1!one! scream

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The parents are there to guide their child,

To guide- not to control.


Guidance requires some control.

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and make sure that they are on the path to becoming a contributing member of society,

How will sex make them a member of society that doesn't contribute?


Wait, you mean those people on wellfare are contributting? eek Then why do people dislike them so much?

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with the time to go out and experience life on their own when they reach maturity.

People mature differently.


ORLY? That doesn't means that the majority, or even a significant statistic will be mature enough to handle a relationship of children or teenagers with an adult. And just a question, is this about relationships between Adults and children that haven't hit puberty, or adults and teenagers?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:06 pm


RMarques
[gossamer]!smile.
BlueCollarJoe
No balance. The majority of teens and younger think they are a lot smarter and wiser than they really are.

So sex is reserved for the wise?
Why is that?


STDs and unwanted pregnancies are two very good reasons IMHO.

Adults get those too.
That point is moot.


Quote:
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but the law cannot be written with exceptions for the most part.

That depends.
If there's a type of food out there that can kill 1 out of 1000 people instantly, I'm sure there'd be a law written to protect those people. It could be complete banning, or something else.


1 out of 1000. I doubt the porpotion of kids that are mature enough to handle a relationship with an adult vs those that can't reaches that much.

Unless you can prove that, this point is also moot.

Quote:
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And really, the AoC laws were written for the "exceptions". About three generations ago, "kids" my age were marrying and screwing. But a few of them didn't like it (blame Christian morals [nothing against Christians as a whole] ) and so a law was written to ban it indefinately.


Actually, in many states, teenage marriage is still legal, they just need the parent's consent. People our age where forced to marry, mostly because of the parent's interests, raped girl marrying to avoid shame, etc.

Point taken.

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I think that the age of consent should be reduced, simply because the "kids" that do want sex can find someone to have it with, and the kids that don't want to...don't have to.


And, what exacly is preventing them to find someone their own age?

Maybe preference? I'd date older women if I were allowed to. The girls in my age group are more interested in stuffing their bra.

Quote:
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Most kids are easily duped. Lets face it.

So are adults.


And in the matters of sex, the one that is more likely to be screwed (no pun intended) in the end, is the child.

Proof?
Adults get raped, last time I checked.
Adults get unwanted pregnancies, last time I checked.
Adults get STDs, last time I checked.
So- what's the difference?
How many times a person's been around the sun?


Quote:
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We don't let kids drive without a mentor in the car until they are at least sixteen. You want us to let them have sex?

That's different, seeing as driving takes alot of practice that can only be given with the help of a mentor, and takes more motor skills (no pun intended). Sex and relationships are learning expiriences that should be left up to the individual.


Yes, and they both can ruin your life if you're not carefull, adults, with all the education they're suposed to get, get in trouble because of those, what the hell is a child suposed to do better?

What the hell is the child supposed to do? Worse?
A relationships is about emotions.
I'm pretty sure everyone has some of those.


Quote:
The other reason is even simpler. The kids are their parents responsibility.
Quote:

That's another argument, but I'll put the gist of it here.
Adults are (or at least should be) there to give food, shelter and schooling. I think they should nudge the kid into the direction they want them to do to, but anything other than that is pushing their morals onto a highly impressionable human being, which is dangerous.


Well then, we shouldn't teach them about stealing, killing, cheating, and other things to be wrong. After all, it's forcing our morals on an impressionable human being! Damn those parents!!!1!one! scream

Stealing is harming someone in the long run.
Killing is directly harming someone with malicious intent.
I don't find anything wrong with cheating, personally.
But sex? That's an individual thing.
And should be left up to the individual.


Quote:
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The parents are there to guide their child,

To guide- not to control.


Guidance requires some control.

Depends on how you go about it, really.

Quote:
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and make sure that they are on the path to becoming a contributing member of society,

How will sex make them a member of society that doesn't contribute?


Wait, you mean those people on wellfare are contributting? eek Then why do people dislike them so much?

Yes, becuase you know if we let those darned kids have the freedom of doing what they want with their bodies, they'll all grow up to be welfare junkies. It's perfect logic. rolleyes

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with the time to go out and experience life on their own when they reach maturity.

People mature differently.


ORLY? That doesn't means that the majority, or even a significant statistic will be mature enough to handle a relationship of children or teenagers with an adult.

Can you prove that?
Quote:
And just a question, is this about relationships between Adults and children that haven't hit puberty, or adults and teenagers?
About kids currently in puberty and teenagers.

[gossamer]!smile.
Vice Captain


BlueCollarJoe

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:29 pm


Good points, RMarques, but I am going to address the issues as well.


[gossamer]!smile.
BlueCollarJoe
No balance. The majority of teens and younger think they are a lot smarter and wiser than they really are.

So sex is reserved for the wise?
Why is that?



With age comes wisdom in most cases. The vast majority of people have regrets about things done as youths when they get older. Most older people tend to have the sense not to make rash decisions. Note that I said most. Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule, but the vast majority do make good decisions. The vast majority of youth are more prone to make irrational decisions.

[gossamer]!smile.
BlueCollarJoe

Quote:
but the law cannot be written with exceptions for the most part.

That depends.
If there's a type of food out there that can kill 1 out of 1000 people instantly, I'm sure there'd be a law written to protect those people. It could be complete banning, or something else.

And really, the AoC laws were written for the "exceptions". About three generations ago, "kids" my age were marrying and screwing. But a few of them didn't like it (blame Christian morals [nothing against Christians as a whole] ) and so a law was written to ban it indefinately.

I think that the age of consent should be reduced, simply because the "kids" that do want sex can find someone to have it with, and the kids that don't want to...don't have to.




There already are foods like that out there. Peanut butter can kill people with an allergy to it, so too can sugar. Tomatoes, the list is nearly infinite.
Shellfish are fatal to some people as well. The issue of foods being banned for being fatal to a .01% group of the population is a fallacy, and isn't happening.
As for the issue of 'Chirstian' Morals, actually, Christians were just as prone to marry their children off as non-christians were. It was society as a whole, not merely one segment, that enacted the ban.
You've already hinted that you are under the age of consent. Thus, you still have some maturing to do. Note that I stated maturing, not becoming more intelligent.
Nor is this meant as an insult. However, most kids are not of equal mental capacity as adults are. Less experience, and easier to trick. Kids make rash decisions.
No insult, as I stated before. It is simply a fact. I was one of those dumb kids. And I thought I was soooo much smarter than those stupid adults. Now, I realize just how immature I really was as a kid.
I was mature for my age, but still not in the league of most adults.

[gossamer]!smile.
BlueCollarJoe

Quote:
Most kids are easily duped. Lets face it.

So are adults.



Not nearly as easily duped as kids are. Adults are prone to making stupid decisions financially. But they are far less likely to make stupid emotional decisions, and have a sexual encounter that they will regret at a later date.
Just reality. Kids are more prone to poor emotional decisions than adults are.
Main reason is simply life experience. There is an old axiom, you live, you learn. Quite apt and correct. You gain experience through life.
There are those few youths that can gain experience by listening to the words and experiences of their elders, but they are the exception, not the norm.

[gossamer]!smile.
BlueCollarJoe


Quote:
We don't let kids drive without a mentor in the car until they are at least sixteen. You want us to let them have sex?

That's different, seeing as driving takes alot of practice that can only be given with the help of a mentor, and takes more motor skills (no pun intended). Sex and relationships are learning expiriences that should be left up to the individual.



Sex and relationships are experiences that one approaches slowly, and allows to develop, as one develops into the person they are going to become.
Until one is out on their own, and supporting themselves, they cannot and do not, for the majority of cases, have the necessary experience to grasp the reality of the world.
Much like neurosurgery, one doesn't simply read a book and they are instantly prepared for it.
Relationships are not flighty. And sex should never be taken for granted. It is a serious action, one that one must truly consider all the ramifications that can come about from it.
And, if one is not willing and ABLE to handle those repercussions, then they should not indulge.

[gossamer]!smile.
BlueCollarJoe

Quote:
The other reason is even simpler. The kids are their parents responsibility.

That's another argument, but I'll put the gist of it here.
Adults are (or at least should be) there to give food, shelter and schooling. I think they should nudge the kid into the direction they want them to do to, but anything other than that is pushing their morals onto a highly impressionable human being, which is dangerous.



Lets put this very simply then. Kids are a leech. Period. You provide nothing to the family in most cases other than your presence, and performing a few chores, in most cases. You are given a place to live, education, money to go to the movies or whatever in most cases, and transportation.
Most of the time, parents sacrifice a lot for their kids. When one becomes a parent, you are no longer 'BlueCollarJoe' or whoever you are Simon Schmuckatellies dad'.
The parents job is to prepare their child for adulthood. And their morals are theirs to instill in the child. Whether the child takes them or not is up to the child when they become a teen/adult.
As a pre-teen, the parents should make most every decision related to that child.
It is much more dangerous to merely use the boarding house approach to child rearing, where one allows their child to run about and make all their own decisions and never correct that childs actions.
As a parent, I would not, and did not, tolerate certain behaviors which I found offensive and/or inappropriate.
To this day, I will not disrespect my parents, and I myself am a grandparent now.
Why not? Because I realize that, even though I have a lot more wisdom than I had as a youth, they still have that much more than me, and I realize just how much they did that benefitted me with their rules and my upbringing.
They kept me from making a lot of stupid mistakes as a kid. And for that reason, I now acknowledge just how much I, and every other kid I've ever seen, needs that formative guidance, whether they realize it or not.
Once you move out of mom and dad's house, you can pierce your willy, sleep with goats, whatever you want.
But in their house, they are the ones that control the house. And that means all residents within the house abide by their rules.

[gossamer]!smile.
BlueCollarJoe

Quote:
The parents are there to guide their child,

To guide- not to control.



Hence the reason I used the word guide. A parent should only exert their control when necessary. Allow the child to develop on their own, but put their foot down when the child is doing something/about to do something that they disagree with.

[gossamer]!smile.
BlueCollarJoe

Quote:
and make sure that they are on the path to becoming a contributing member of society,

How will sex make them a member of society that doesn't contribute?


STD's, pregnancy, emotional distress as adults (you'd be surprised how many people that 'willingly and knowingly' had sex as juveniles talk about the regrets later in life.
It is also funny how many single moms there are that are young, but that is another debate entirely.

[gossamer]!smile.
BlueCollarJoe

Quote:
and make sure that they are on the path to becoming a contributing member of society,

How will sex make them a member of society that doesn't contribute?

Quote:
with the time to go out and experience life on their own when they reach maturity.

People mature differently.


True, but once again, you take what is the norm and use it as the guideline.
The majority of people continue to mature during their entire life. It is that simple.
Most youths simply don't have the responsibility nor mindset to do so.
The majority is the guideline in this instance.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:06 am


[gossamer]!smile.
RMarques
[gossamer]!smile.

So sex is reserved for the wise?
Why is that?


STDs and unwanted pregnancies are two very good reasons IMHO.

Adults get those too.
That point is moot.


My point was that irresponsible people, that take no care at all should not be having sex. How is that moot? Also, wich one is more likely to be able to take proper care of a child as a single parent? A teenager that hasn't even finished school, or an adult, that has graduated from school, and can have a decent job?

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Unless you can prove that, this point is also moot.


Well you can't exacly prove me wrong either. So, both points are moot.



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And, what exacly is preventing them to find someone their own age?

Maybe preference? I'd date older women if I were allowed to. The girls in my age group are more interested in stuffing their bra.


How older? Do they really need to be 20 years old college students? And please, if there's people your age group that can handle a relationship with an adult, then I'm sure there's girls that are interested in more than just "filling their bra"

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And in the matters of sex, the one that is more likely to be screwed (no pun intended) in the end, is the child.

Proof?
Adults get raped, last time I checked.
Adults get unwanted pregnancies, last time I checked.
Adults get STDs, last time I checked.
So- what's the difference?
How many times a person's been around the sun?


Sure they do, however, adults in general deal with those situations better, can afford the proper medical care, and in case of disown, it makes less difference to an adult, unless they're one of those lazy 30 years old living with their parents because they dropped out of highschool, and did nothing in their lives. And let's face it, a big number of adults that approache a teenager for a relationship is up to no good.

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We don't let kids drive without a mentor in the car until they are at least sixteen. You want us to let them have sex?

That's different, seeing as driving takes alot of practice that can only be given with the help of a mentor, and takes more motor skills (no pun intended). Sex and relationships are learning expiriences that should be left up to the individual.


Yes, and they both can ruin your life if you're not carefull, adults, with all the education they're suposed to get, get in trouble because of those, what the hell is a child suposed to do better?

What the hell is the child supposed to do? Worse?
A relationships is about emotions.
I'm pretty sure everyone has some of those.


Well sure, but emotion isn't enough in a relationship. Like it or not, other factors, such as age difference, can make a lot of trouble. Let's see this scenario:

15 years old boy gets his 25 years old girlfriend pregnant. He gets exited, he's going to have a baby. However, the mother gets scared. How will this affect her career? How this affect her boyfriends life? She thinks that the best course of action is to either abort, or put the kid up for adoption. The boy opposes. He thinks that the woman is exagerating, and that they can take care of the child just fine.

This could very well happen. Most teenagers have no idea what it is like to raise a child, let alone how much it costs to raise one. I know that I only have a small idea.

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Stealing is harming someone in the long run.
Killing is directly harming someone with malicious intent.
I don't find anything wrong with cheating, personally.
But sex? That's an individual thing.
And should be left up to the individual.


Yes, and sex can also harm you in the long run, be it with rape, pregnancy and the health problems it may cause, be it by contamination with STDs, etc, etc.

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Guidance requires some control.

Depends on how you go about it, really.


Most kids require a certain level of control, period. Not all of them have full consicence of their actions, therefor, we must controll them to an extent. Otherwise, why do we have curfews, why don't we just let them run wild on the streets at night?

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Yes, becuase you know if we let those darned kids have the freedom of doing what they want with their bodies, they'll all grow up to be welfare junkies. It's perfect logic. rolleyes


Not all of them, but I'm willing to bet that a large number of them would.

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ORLY? That doesn't means that the majority, or even a significant statistic will be mature enough to handle a relationship of children or teenagers with an adult.

Can you prove that?


No, I can't, but let's face, you can't either.

RMarques


[gossamer]!smile.
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:01 am


RMarques
[gossamer]!smile.
RMarques
[gossamer]!smile.

So sex is reserved for the wise?
Why is that?


STDs and unwanted pregnancies are two very good reasons IMHO.

Adults get those too.
That point is moot.


My point was that irresponsible people, that take no care at all should not be having sex. How is that moot? Also, wich one is more likely to be able to take proper care of a child as a single parent? A teenager that hasn't even finished school, or an adult, that has graduated from school, and can have a decent job?

I would like you to look up a girl on gaia known as xSetx. She's a fifteen year old single parent. She's doing a damned good job. Also, I have a personal friend named Sophie who is 16 and 20 weeks pregnant. She's doing everything she should be doing (going to the doctors, eating right, getting enough rest etc. etc.) by herself, and still going to school.

What does this prove? It proves that responsibility depends on the person- not the age group. If I got my girlfriend pregnant, first I'd ask her what she wanted. If she wanted an abortion, I'd be fine with that and help pay for it. If she wanted to keep the baby, I'd be fine with it and do everything I could to help. A parent can't be measured by how much s**t he/she buys for their kid, but how well they raise the child.


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Unless you can prove that, this point is also moot.


Well you can't exacly prove me wrong either. So, both points are moot.

Technically, the BoP says that if you can't prove your point, I'm correct.

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And, what exacly is preventing them to find someone their own age?

Maybe preference? I'd date older women if I were allowed to. The girls in my age group are more interested in stuffing their bra.


How older? Do they really need to be 20 years old college students? And please, if there's people your age group that can handle a relationship with an adult, then I'm sure there's girls that are interested in more than just "filling their bra"

What's wrong with 20 year old college students?
And yes, there are some girls my age that're really great.
Like Andria and...and...Andria. =/
Well I can only think of one girl that's pretty
and smart and not another 14 year old ******** I'm sure there's alot more 20 year olds that're interesting.


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And in the matters of sex, the one that is more likely to be screwed (no pun intended) in the end, is the child.

Proof?
Adults get raped, last time I checked.
Adults get unwanted pregnancies, last time I checked.
Adults get STDs, last time I checked.
So- what's the difference?
How many times a person's been around the sun?


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Sure they do, however, adults in general deal with those situations better

I call bullshit on this.
Case in point:
Sophie, my pregnant 16 year old friend, got raped when she was 13. She's over it now. She's not freaking out or anything. My aunt that got raped when she was 27 (She's 32 now) still isn't over it. To this day she will not be alone with a man -anywhere-. Again, it depends on the person, not the age group.


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And let's face it, a big number of adults that approache a teenager for a relationship is up to no good.

I'm calling bullshit on this, too.
Prove or concede. Adults are just older,
doesn't mean they're all out to rape teenagers.


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What the hell is the child supposed to do? Worse?
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A relationships is about emotions.
I'm pretty sure everyone has some of those.


Well sure, but emotion isn't enough in a relationship. Like it or not, other factors, such as age difference, can make a lot of trouble. Let's see this scenario:

15 years old boy gets his 25 years old girlfriend pregnant. He gets exited, he's going to have a baby. However, the mother gets scared. How will this affect her career? How this affect her boyfriends life? She thinks that the best course of action is to either abort, or put the kid up for adoption. The boy opposes. He thinks that the woman is exagerating, and that they can take care of the child just fine.

Any man of any age would take that harshly,
not just a teenager. Jesus...come on now.


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Yes, and sex can also harm you in the long run, be it with rape, pregnancy and the health problems it may cause, be it by contamination with STDs, etc, etc.

Again, this is a moot point because it affects everyone, not just teenagers. ANd if we taught teenagers about sex sooner, how to use condoms and pills and such, there would be alot less teen pregancies and STDs.

Quote:
Most kids require a certain level of control, period. Not all of them have full consicence of their actions, therefor, we must controll them to an extent. Otherwise, why do we have curfews, why don't we just let them run wild on the streets at night?

Why should adults go out at night?
After all, they're prone to raping someone,
to doing drugs or to drink and drive.
It's up to the individual.
Not the age group.


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Yes, becuase you know if we let those darned kids have the freedom of doing what they want with their bodies, they'll all grow up to be welfare junkies. It's perfect logic. rolleyes


Not all of them, but I'm willing to bet that a large number of them would.

I'm sure you'd lose that bet.

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ORLY? That doesn't means that the majority, or even a significant statistic will be mature enough to handle a relationship of children or teenagers with an adult.

Can you prove that?


No, I can't, but let's face, you can't either.

Here's the funny thing-
I don't have to.
If you can't prove your own case, then retract it.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:25 am


[gossamer]!smile.
RMarques
[gossamer]!smile.
RMarques
[gossamer]!smile.

So sex is reserved for the wise?
Why is that?


STDs and unwanted pregnancies are two very good reasons IMHO.

Adults get those too.
That point is moot.


My point was that irresponsible people, that take no care at all should not be having sex. How is that moot? Also, wich one is more likely to be able to take proper care of a child as a single parent? A teenager that hasn't even finished school, or an adult, that has graduated from school, and can have a decent job?

I would like you to look up a girl on gaia known as xSetx. She's a fifteen year old single parent. She's doing a damned good job. Also, I have a personal friend named Sophie who is 16 and 20 weeks pregnant. She's doing everything she should be doing (going to the doctors, eating right, getting enough rest etc. etc.) by herself, and still going to school.


I never said no teenage parent did a good job. But I wouldn't be telling a lie if I said that a decent number of them aren't doing much of a good job, if any at all.

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What does this prove? It proves that responsibility depends on the person- not the age group. If I got my girlfriend pregnant, first I'd ask her what she wanted. If she wanted an abortion, I'd be fine with that and help pay for it. If she wanted to keep the baby, I'd be fine with it and do everything I could to help. A parent can't be measured by how much s**t he/she buys for their kid, but how well they raise the child.


When did I say that a parent is measured by how much he/she buys to the kid? You said "so sex is just for the wise?" (not the exact wording, but the same idea), and I say, that yes, sex should only be done by those that have responsability enough to take the consequences, and take the best course of action, and maybe, even preventing it from happening again.

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Unless you can prove that, this point is also moot.


Well you can't exacly prove me wrong either. So, both points are moot.

Technically, the BoP says that if you can't prove your point, I'm correct.


Fine, I concede this one. However, I stand by my ground when I say that you cannot prove the opposite of my claim.

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How older? Do they really need to be 20 years old college students? And please, if there's people your age group that can handle a relationship with an adult, then I'm sure there's girls that are interested in more than just "filling their bra"

What's wrong with 20 year old college students?
And yes, there are some girls my age that're really great.
Like Andria and...and...Andria. =/
Well I can only think of one girl that's pretty
and smart and not another 14 year old ******** I'm sure there's alot more 20 year olds that're interesting.


Nothing wrong with 20 years old college students. I just don't see why does it has to be one, and not someone your own age. As for the other part, plain people have feelings and crushes too damn it scream

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Sure they do, however, adults in general deal with those situations better

I call bullshit on this.
Case in point:
Sophie, my pregnant 16 year old friend, got raped when she was 13. She's over it now. She's not freaking out or anything. My aunt that got raped when she was 27 (She's 32 now) still isn't over it. To this day she will not be alone with a man -anywhere-. Again, it depends on the person, not the age group.


One person of each side. Proves that there's exeptions, but by no means does that makes them the norm.

Quote:
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And let's face it, a big number of adults that approache a teenager for a relationship is up to no good.

I'm calling bullshit on this, too.
Prove or concede. Adults are just older,
doesn't mean they're all out to rape teenagers.


Sure adults are just older, and no, not all of them are out to rape teenagers, but you cannot rape the willing. By "up to no good" I could simply mean, finding a girl, convince her to ahve sex with you, then dumping her, have sex with her, and dump her when she says "I'm pregnant", and many otehr scenarios. And if you look around, i'm sure you'll find a lot of girls that actually believe their boyfriend is "the one" when they're both only 15, or whatever. Case in point: Many girls are naive, and people can take advantage of it. In many case that person happens to be older.

Quote:
Quote:

Quote:
A relationships is about emotions.
I'm pretty sure everyone has some of those.


Well sure, but emotion isn't enough in a relationship. Like it or not, other factors, such as age difference, can make a lot of trouble. Let's see this scenario:

15 years old boy gets his 25 years old girlfriend pregnant. He gets exited, he's going to have a baby. However, the mother gets scared. How will this affect her career? How this affect her boyfriends life? She thinks that the best course of action is to either abort, or put the kid up for adoption. The boy opposes. He thinks that the woman is exagerating, and that they can take care of the child just fine.

Any man of any age would take that harshly,
not just a teenager. Jesus...come on now.


Any man? Prove or concede. Men can be childfree (meaning they don't want, nor will they ever want children), they can actually agree with the woman after the hype of the news calms down, and many other scenarios. It depends on the person. wink

Quote:
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Yes, and sex can also harm you in the long run, be it with rape, pregnancy and the health problems it may cause, be it by contamination with STDs, etc, etc.

Again, this is a moot point because it affects everyone, not just teenagers. ANd if we taught teenagers about sex sooner, how to use condoms and pills and such, there would be alot less teen pregancies and STDs.


Maybe, maybe not. We cannot be sure of that. While I agree with teaching proper sex ed soon (not at age 10 tough), I we cannot know for sure how many would actually listen, how many would be allowed to get the contraceptives, and many other possible scenarios.

Quote:
Quote:
Most kids require a certain level of control, period. Not all of them have full consicence of their actions, therefor, we must controll them to an extent. Otherwise, why do we have curfews, why don't we just let them run wild on the streets at night?

Why should adults go out at night?
After all, they're prone to raping someone,
to doing drugs or to drink and drive.
It's up to the individual.
Not the age group.


Wich one is more likely to have a car to escape? the 13 years old, or the 25 years old? Wich one would be more likely to disarm the robber? The 13 years old, or the 25 years old?

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

Yes, becuase you know if we let those darned kids have the freedom of doing what they want with their bodies, they'll all grow up to be welfare junkies. It's perfect logic. rolleyes


Not all of them, but I'm willing to bet that a large number of them would.

I'm sure you'd lose that bet.


Well this would be dragging off topic, but sex isn't the only thing to do with your body. Techinicly, doing drugs is doing what you want with your body.

Quote:
Quote:
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ORLY? That doesn't means that the majority, or even a significant statistic will be mature enough to handle a relationship of children or teenagers with an adult.

Can you prove that?


No, I can't, but let's face, you can't either.

Here's the funny thing-
I don't have to.
If you can't prove your own case, then retract it.


Fine then.

RMarques


[gossamer]!smile.
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:04 pm


RMarques
[gossamer]!smile.
RMarques
[gossamer]!smile.
RMarques
[gossamer]!smile.

So sex is reserved for the wise?
Why is that?


STDs and unwanted pregnancies are two very good reasons IMHO.

Adults get those too.
That point is moot.


My point was that irresponsible people, that take no care at all should not be having sex. How is that moot? Also, wich one is more likely to be able to take proper care of a child as a single parent? A teenager that hasn't even finished school, or an adult, that has graduated from school, and can have a decent job?

I would like you to look up a girl on gaia known as xSetx. She's a fifteen year old single parent. She's doing a damned good job. Also, I have a personal friend named Sophie who is 16 and 20 weeks pregnant. She's doing everything she should be doing (going to the doctors, eating right, getting enough rest etc. etc.) by herself, and still going to school.


I never said no teenage parent did a good job. But I wouldn't be telling a lie if I said that a decent number of them aren't doing much of a good job, if any at all.
A decent amount of adult single-parents aren't doing good either. It's not just the teenagers.

Quote:
Quote:
What does this prove? It proves that responsibility depends on the person- not the age group. If I got my girlfriend pregnant, first I'd ask her what she wanted. If she wanted an abortion, I'd be fine with that and help pay for it. If she wanted to keep the baby, I'd be fine with it and do everything I could to help. A parent can't be measured by how much s**t he/she buys for their kid, but how well they raise the child.


When did I say that a parent is measured by how much he/she buys to the kid? You said "so sex is just for the wise?" (not the exact wording, but the same idea), and I say, that yes, sex should only be done by those that have responsability enough to take the consequences, and take the best course of action, and maybe, even preventing it from happening again.

Either I misread, or you misread. You stated a teenager would be a bad parent because they can't get a good job (paraphrasing, of course. Correct me if I'm wrong), and so I said that a parent shouldn't be judged by how good his or her job is, but by how well they raise their child.

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Quote:
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Unless you can prove that, this point is also moot.


Well you can't exacly prove me wrong either. So, both points are moot.

Technically, the BoP says that if you can't prove your point, I'm correct.


Fine, I concede this one. However, I stand by my ground when I say that you cannot prove the opposite of my claim.

I'll admit that certain things cannot be proven.
So I'd like to keep those things out of an argument. ;3


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

How older? Do they really need to be 20 years old college students? And please, if there's people your age group that can handle a relationship with an adult, then I'm sure there's girls that are interested in more than just "filling their bra"

What's wrong with 20 year old college students?
And yes, there are some girls my age that're really great.
Like Andria and...and...Andria. =/
Well I can only think of one girl that's pretty
and smart and not another 14 year old ******** I'm sure there's alot more 20 year olds that're interesting.


Nothing wrong with 20 years old college students. I just don't see why does it has to be one, and not someone your own age. As for the other part, plain people have feelings and crushes too damn it scream

Plain people are...plain. I don't care about their feelings, quite honestly. I'm an elitist.

Quote:
Quote:

Quote:
Sure they do, however, adults in general deal with those situations better

I call bullshit on this.
Case in point:
Sophie, my pregnant 16 year old friend, got raped when she was 13. She's over it now. She's not freaking out or anything. My aunt that got raped when she was 27 (She's 32 now) still isn't over it. To this day she will not be alone with a man -anywhere-. Again, it depends on the person, not the age group.


One person of each side. Proves that there's exeptions, but by no means does that makes them the norm.

Fair enough.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And let's face it, a big number of adults that approache a teenager for a relationship is up to no good.

I'm calling bullshit on this, too.
Prove or concede. Adults are just older,
doesn't mean they're all out to rape teenagers.


Sure adults are just older, and no, not all of them are out to rape teenagers, but you cannot rape the willing. By "up to no good" I could simply mean, finding a girl, convince her to ahve sex with you, then dumping her, have sex with her, and dump her when she says "I'm pregnant", and many otehr scenarios.

There are plenty of adults that do that, too.
It can't be proven who does it the most,
so we must assume that they both do it about the same amount.
This would mean that it has nothing to do with age,
but everything to do with the individual person.


Quote:
And if you look around, i'm sure you'll find a lot of girls that actually believe their boyfriend is "the one" when they're both only 15, or whatever. Case in point: Many girls are naive, and people can take advantage of it. In many case that person happens to be older.

I'm fourteen and I already found a girl I'd love to spend the rest of my life with. But I don't count on it.

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Any man? Prove or concede. Men can be childfree (meaning they don't want, nor will they ever want children), they can actually agree with the woman after the hype of the news calms down, and many other scenarios. It depends on the person. wink

Heheh. =)
I won't concede, but I'll rephrase. Any man in that scenario would take it harshly. The scenerio being he knocked up his girlfriend, he wanted to keep it and she wanted to abort.


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Yes, and sex can also harm you in the long run, be it with rape, pregnancy and the health problems it may cause, be it by contamination with STDs, etc, etc.

Again, this is a moot point because it affects everyone, not just teenagers. ANd if we taught teenagers about sex sooner, how to use condoms and pills and such, there would be alot less teen pregancies and STDs.


Maybe, maybe not. We cannot be sure of that. While I agree with teaching proper sex ed soon (not at age 10 tough), I we cannot know for sure how many would actually listen, how many would be allowed to get the contraceptives, and many other possible scenarios.

It should be taught like any other class.
There's enough of it to teach.
I think they should remove one elective class
and replace it with a mandatory sex ed. class.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Most kids require a certain level of control, period. Not all of them have full consicence of their actions, therefor, we must controll them to an extent. Otherwise, why do we have curfews, why don't we just let them run wild on the streets at night?

Why should adults go out at night?
After all, they're prone to raping someone,
to doing drugs or to drink and drive.
It's up to the individual.
Not the age group.


Wich one is more likely to have a car to escape? the 13 years old, or the 25 years old? Wich one would be more likely to disarm the robber? The 13 years old, or the 25 years old?

That was a horrible counter-argument...and I don't normally say that. Ever.

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Quote:
Quote:
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Yes, becuase you know if we let those darned kids have the freedom of doing what they want with their bodies, they'll all grow up to be welfare junkies. It's perfect logic. rolleyes


Not all of them, but I'm willing to bet that a large number of them would.

I'm sure you'd lose that bet.


Well this would be dragging off topic, but sex isn't the only thing to do with your body. Techinicly, doing drugs is doing what you want with your body.

I'm not opposed to people doing drugs.
If you want to, go ahead.
I think we should have places to hold people that do drugs.
Not against their will or anything...but they sign in,
buy their drug of choice, and go into a circular padded room
(depending on what drug they purchased)
and do the drug, with a person watching them via camera.
When they're off their high, they can leave.
But only when they're sober enough to drive.
Reply
General Debate.

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