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 Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:39 am
Ah, the subject of abortion. I plan to make this first post as neutral as I can. First of all, What is abortion?-Abortion is basically the termination of a pregnancy. --People who support this right believe that this is good because it is known that not every nonvirgin woman wishes to be a mother. --People who oppose abortion, however, are saddened to angered about this procedure because it results in the death of the fetus. What are the different political positions?Positions can get more complex than this, but these are the bare bones. -Pro-abortion - All pregnancies should end in abortion. This is usually because of overpopulation issues or an overzealous member of VHEMT-Pro-choice - All women should have the choice to continue a pregnancy or not. Pro-limited choice/pro-choice but - Abortion should be allowed for a woman as long as her pregnancy meets certain conditions, often rape, incest, or health/life risks. Pro-life - Abortion should not be allowed, life risks excepting. Anti-abortion - Abortion should be 100% outlawed. All of these positions come in two flavors: Personal and political. It is not uncommon to see someone who holds one standard for oneself and another for other people. Example being: Pro-life personal, and pro-choice political (You would not get an abortion, but support the choice for another woman) I do plan to add more, but will do so as time and this debate progresses. Things I plan to include: -Common arguments for and against abortion. -Common propaganda on both sides and the flaws within them. -Anything requested (within reason).
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:06 am
OhhI hope this isn't as one sided as the homosexuality one! *gets ready*
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:54 am
Hello Toga! ^^
Well, I'm pro-choice until the third trimester, Bodily Domain and all that. ^^
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:23 pm
RMarques OhhI hope this isn't as one sided as the homosexuality one! *gets ready* I'm hoping that in the future we'll have a wider variety of debators, but it seems now we all think pretty much the same way. *goes off to find good debators for opposition* --- I usually don't do intro posts, but I'll state my opinion now. I'm pro-choice for the first two trimesters, and stuck on the third one. I believe every person, including pregnant women, should have the right to decide who uses their body and when, and that that right is inalienable. I do believe that a fetus is somewhat equal to us, however, with equal status comes equal restriction, and therefore out the unwanted fetus may go. I'm not so sure about third tri abortions being elective. I have a bit of personal bias there being a premie, and I know that past viability there is a way for a woman to separate herself from a pregnancy if she no longer wishes to continue it. However, I'm also aware of people who are opposed to adoption and are childfree - myself being one of them. So I'm stuck there.
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:55 pm
My opinion on this is slowly changing, unfortunately.
I'd give reasoning but i'd be insulting about ninety-five percent of people on the planet in the process so i'll bite my tongue.
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:01 pm
I'll go oppose.
Aborption is wrong. A fetus is a soon-to-be human, with human ginetics and human dna in it. It deserves to live. Anyone who aborpts is abandoning a new seed, a new life.
Also, it IS their fault for not using protection. Rape/health risks can to aborption. I have nothign wrong with that. But if they're having aborption because they were too stupid to use a condom, and refused bith controll pills, then they SHOULD give birth.
If it was a so called 'accident' and the condom broke/pills didn't work, then it was their own damn fault for doing it in the first place.
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:00 pm
Merc Pip Bernadotte Hello Toga! ^^
Well, I'm pro-choice until the third trimester, Bodily Domain and all that. ^^ Me too, third term, and please don't do it 7 TIMES IN A ROW WITHOUT EVER BUYING PROTECTION. Ahem.
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:50 pm
linaloki Merc Pip Bernadotte Hello Toga! ^^
Well, I'm pro-choice until the third trimester, Bodily Domain and all that. ^^ Me too, third term, and please don't do it 7 TIMES IN A ROW WITHOUT EVER BUYING PROTECTION. Ahem. WE should 'spay' people who have given seed to aborptions 5+ times and people who have HAD unnesseccary aborptions 5+ times.
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:30 pm
Pro-choice but was my vote. I have some restrictions on them, and they are pretty simple.
Rape? I don't like abortion. Personal opinion, unless it is life threatening, no abortions. Period.
However, it is legal. I also feel that the issue of abortion has been twisted to becoming an 'oops' method of birth control. Too drunk to use protection, 'oops'. Time to suck the little b*****d out.
Fetus is a nice term that is now used. It is so much nicer to say that rather than admit to the fact that it is a baby. Using a scientific term to hide the issue behind neutral words is how I view that.
HOWEVER, my main issue with abortion now? Look, it is legal. That is what the law says, so I live with it. However, the fable of bodily domain loses with me. Why? Because how is it that the woman gets to decide whether she becomes a parent or not, yet, the man has absolutely no choice in the matter either way?
Equal rights my a**.
Guess you guys found your opposition. But probably not in the way you thought.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:17 am
soul_less_human I'll go oppose. Aborption is wrong. A fetus is a soon-to-be human, with human ginetics and human dna in it. I am a soon-to-be senior citizen. Why don't I get my social security benefits? I also have the potential to break+enter my neighborss houses today as they're all out at work. Why am I not locked up? I'll answer. It's because according to law, potential means little. The right to life in not inalienable in the face of bodily integrity. If it was then blood, marrow, and organ donation would be mandatory, and I would be spending my days in the hospital waiting for people who need transfusions because I have O- blood. Quote: Anyone who aborpts is abandoning a new seed, a new life. People who adopt out are abandoning a new seed. People who eat veal are abandoning new life. Point? Quote: Also, it IS their fault for not using protection. Rape/health risks can to aborption. I have nothign wrong with that. But if they're having aborption because they were too stupid to use a condom, and refused bith controll pills, then they SHOULD give birth. According to the AGI, 54% of women seeking abortions used some form of protection. It's not like contraception is failproof. Source: Alan Guttmacher Institute. Quote: If it was a so called 'accident' and the condom broke/pills didn't work, then it was their own damn fault for doing it in the first place. I never understood the logic that reduced children from "gifts" to "consequences that women deserve for making 'mistakes'"
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:18 am
linaloki Merc Pip Bernadotte Hello Toga! ^^
Well, I'm pro-choice until the third trimester, Bodily Domain and all that. ^^ Me too, third term, and please don't do it 7 TIMES IN A ROW WITHOUT EVER BUYING PROTECTION. Ahem. I don't like that either, but I also don't like the idea of stopping such women or poking around their personal life. However, abortion or childbirth, the body can only take so much of either.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:24 am
BlueCollarJoe Pro-choice but was my vote. I have some restrictions on them, and they are pretty simple. Fair enough, but I disagree with the idea of placing restrictions on such an action. We don't place restrictions on refusal to donate other organs, do we? Quote: Rape? I don't like abortion. Personal opinion, unless it is life threatening, no abortions. Period. Aslong as you keep that a personal opinion, I can respect that. However, it should be noted that every pregnancy carries a potential health/life risk. What they are. Quote: However, it is legal. I also feel that the issue of abortion has been twisted to becoming an 'oops' method of birth control. Too drunk to use protection, 'oops'. Time to suck the little b*****d out. Abortion is the only true method of birth control, as it controls birth. Besides, those people that you mention are fewer than you think thanks to the exaggeration of anti-abortion/pro-life protestors. I wouldn't want to force such a woman to care for a child anyway for that child's sake. God knows what harm could come to that child during gestation and childhood due to ignorance, apathy, or plain ol' hatred. Quote: Fetus is a nice term that is now used. It is so much nicer to say that rather than admit to the fact that it is a baby. Using a scientific term to hide the issue behind neutral words is how I view that. I hope that was sarcasm, it's hard to tell. Quote: HOWEVER, my main issue with abortion now? Look, it is legal. That is what the law says, so I live with it. However, the fable of bodily domain loses with me. Why? Because how is it that the woman gets to decide whether she becomes a parent or not, yet, the man has absolutely no choice in the matter either way? Equal rights my a**. Guess you guys found your opposition. But probably not in the way you thought. How exactly would you like to change that? Allow him to have control over her body? You can't have a democratic vote when there are two (conscious) parties involved. One has to have a final say in the event of a stalemate. Which one should that be?
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:59 am
Toga! Toga! linaloki Merc Pip Bernadotte Hello Toga! ^^
Well, I'm pro-choice until the third trimester, Bodily Domain and all that. ^^ Me too, third term, and please don't do it 7 TIMES IN A ROW WITHOUT EVER BUYING PROTECTION. Ahem. I don't like that either, but I also don't like the idea of stopping such women or poking around their personal life. However, abortion or childbirth, the body can only take so much of either. I guess it's partially part of my upbringing, or the fact that that's a lot of once potential lives... So many times without spending a couple of bucks on condoms just pisses me off. No clue why. But, it's not like I can stop it. Just a moral tic I have.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:46 am
linaloki Toga! Toga! linaloki Merc Pip Bernadotte Hello Toga! ^^
Well, I'm pro-choice until the third trimester, Bodily Domain and all that. ^^ Me too, third term, and please don't do it 7 TIMES IN A ROW WITHOUT EVER BUYING PROTECTION. Ahem. I don't like that either, but I also don't like the idea of stopping such women or poking around their personal life. However, abortion or childbirth, the body can only take so much of either. I guess it's partially part of my upbringing, or the fact that that's a lot of once potential lives... So many times without spending a couple of bucks on condoms just pisses me off. No clue why. But, it's not like I can stop it. Just a moral tic I have. Hey, I feel the same.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:03 am
Toga! Toga! linaloki Toga! Toga! linaloki Merc Pip Bernadotte Hello Toga! ^^
Well, I'm pro-choice until the third trimester, Bodily Domain and all that. ^^ Me too, third term, and please don't do it 7 TIMES IN A ROW WITHOUT EVER BUYING PROTECTION. Ahem. I don't like that either, but I also don't like the idea of stopping such women or poking around their personal life. However, abortion or childbirth, the body can only take so much of either. I guess it's partially part of my upbringing, or the fact that that's a lot of once potential lives... So many times without spending a couple of bucks on condoms just pisses me off. No clue why. But, it's not like I can stop it. Just a moral tic I have. Hey, I feel the same. Yeah. I'm pro-choice with personal issues against it. I tried to claim neuterality the first time I went into the Abortion thread a year or two ago... And they pointed out that, by being neuteral, I was, infact, pro. >.<
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