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 Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:37 pm
Dischord Also, level shouldn't be a determining factor. Example - most of us are level one, Humbra's character is level 12, that gives him too much of an advantage over the rest of us as being selected for an elevated seat, even if it wasn't/isn't warranted.
I do have some thoughts on picking ranked-shinigami and Captains, though.
#1 A defining factor in having a seated officer is that they have the ability to (1) lead others, and can be able to lead un-ranked shinigamis at the drop of a hat. Level only represents experience, and doesn't completely show a character's ability to lead a group. Renji, Ikkaku, Yachiru, and other vice captains regularly show this skill. Also, during the Soul Society Arc in the Anime/Manga several interludes show a ranked member commanding a small squad of un-ranked shinigamis.
Another defining factor in having a ranked character would be that the roleplayer has to be (2) adept at roleplaying. Adept as in literate, able, and open minded about other's opinions. The latter is the most important, I think, since ranked officers will be prodded and poked into helping the lower-leveled and in-experienced shinigami around the guild.
(3) Activity is also another must. The person in question should be able to be active, and remain active, through-out their experience in the guild. However, methinks that 'activitiy' alone means nothing. (4) Activity with other people, for example, is a much more valuable thing than just running off by yourself and training. I believe Dischord described the lone-training method as "experience whore".
So that's (1) leadership, (2) skilled roleplayer, (3) activity, and (4) not "Experience Whoring". If a person fills those four categories then they'd be an answer ranked officer, methinks. But those are my personal opinions and aren't worth anything. [Side note: Ugu Zenmaru and I have none of the four characteristics. So me and him are probably gonna stay unranked for while. ]
#2 Captains are chosen four ways.Kenkaru, Information on Bleach Thread There are three ways to become a Gotei 13 captain: * To take the captain proficiency test (隊首 taishu), which requires the knowledge of the final release (bankai). Presumably, most shinigami become captains using this method. At least three existing captains, including the Commander-General, have to witness the test. * To have personal recommendations from at least 6 captains, and approval from at least 3 of the remaining 7. * To defeat a captain one-on-one with at least 100 witnesses[citation needed] from the captain’s division. Kenpachi Zaraki is the only known captain who achieved his rank using this method.
On the first point: It's going to be a while till anyone reaches level 30 (30,000 XP, anyone?). Methinks the need for captains will be more important than reaching bankai and this test will be thrown out the window. Thrown out, at least, till there are people who have worked hard enough to reach that fairly large number.
On the second point: There's only one squad, and one captain, so far. It is impossible to get recommendations from people who don't exist yet. However, a thought would be that the lone captain can pick some people he'd give his almighty 'single vote' recommendation to, and make them captains.
On the third point: There's only one squad, and one captain, so far. It is impossible to fight a captain that doesn't exist. However, a solution to this would be to fight an NPC, but that still doesn't cover the issue about the squad not existing.
The fourth way/point would be that the Crew+Captain 'just giving' someone the permission to become a Captain. Personally, I'm thinking the crew is going to cut to the chase and upgrade the first set of Captains from the unranked populace without a test, recomendations, or defeating a Captain that doesn't exist yet. Hm. Probably, at least. :Heart: I'm basing this on nothing but a gut feeling. :Heart:
Aaaand.. Discuss!
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Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:18 pm
whee
You are close but you still far away from the way captains will be selected.
For example...asking to be a captain will only farther you from actually becoming one.
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Dangerous Conversationalist
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:20 am
I think in most cases, Captaincy is something that just comes with time. Let's face it; not every captain is a leader in the traditional sense. Would you all say Mayuri is a leader? I wouldn't. True, as a head scientist, he excels, but he's no leader in the sense most captains are. I think captains should not only be chosen based on the player's RP skills and ability to lead, but also if the person just FITS what he's trying to get into. Mayuri for example, again, is captain of 12th because he fits that mold. If he'd been applying for say..11th, he'd never have made it.
A well developed character is a must. Having the ability to roleplay and be literate is all well and good, but just having them isn't enough. The character needs to develop, have a personality, have depth. I could go and earn thousands of exp and shoot to 50+ faster than anyone; but that doesn't develop anything about Megumi besides his fighting styles. I think a captain character should have depth both on a level of fighting, and on a level of peacetime/normal time behaviour. Mind you, some *characters* are so devoted to their own power that feasibly all they would do is fight and kill and main to learn (read: Zaraki Kenpachi), but those are rare. Notice how many Kenpachis thre are in Soul Society? Just one. Even 11th's men can release Shikai. Yet Zaraki can't. Really unusual characters like that should break a mold, not follow it.
On the subject of Captaincy by battle: this is tricky In a guild like this one, PvP is kind of a 50/50 choice; if someone wins by pure luck or just good or bad fortune on the part of one or another, it can possibly cause bitterness. I mean, let's face it; if I was fighting someone and made excellent beautiful descriptive posts, only to be beaten by someone who posted crappily and just got good rolls, it would cheese me a bit. Stings the pride. I'm not saying anyone in the guild fails at posting or anything, that was just an example. I think if there is ever a duel for captainship, it should be a: cleared with the player who's playing the captain who will be challenged, since his character will be on the line here, and b; cleared with the Guild Leader and at least one or two Crew. While I understand that realism dictates that such a thing wouldn't happen in actual combative situations, it's just RP courtesy, if you're not a DM, to ask permission and clear it before trying to go off and kill someone's character. It represents a lot of work and thought.
I understand that it might not work that way in the actual SS as created by Kubo; Zaraki came at 11th's captain and won, and that was that. But in a cooperative interactive enviornment such as what we have here, I at least think there should be some conditions on challenging for captaincy.
Condition 1: Player must be ACTIVE. If the challenger isn't all that active, and just decides they want to be a captain cos it would make them look cool, and they end up killing a very active Captain, it would cripple the guild. level of 'Active' to be determined by Guild Cap and Crew.
Condition 2: Player challenging must clear the challenge with the player of the captain being challenged. This is a common courtesy condition. In many rp realms, there's a 'no kill without permission' rule. While this may make things a little less realistic, it keeps just any a*****e from challenging out of a whim, or if they have hard feelings for someone (ex: let's say Humbra and I hate each other, and there are 9 active captains currently, and 3 inactive. He has a captain character. I could challenge any captain, 3 of which are inactive and would be the first to logically go, but I challenge Humbra's captain because I dont' like him personally and my dislike is well known. He would be in his rights to refuse, considering my challenge would be based on my dislike for him. In this case, even if I challenged him again the "refusal of three" would not apply to him as I would be attacking his character for personal reasons).
On the flip side, constantly refusing a challenge from a player who issues a valid challenge, and whose character has valid reasons or motivations to issue a challenge, is on the same levy. I'd say let's make a "refusal of three" rule. If the challenge is valid and in character, without any personal feelings involved, and the player of the challenged captain refuses just because he's scared to lose his character, and has no other valid reason to refuse, then he is allowed; however, after two weeks (real time) the challenger has a right to challenge again if he hasn't found a Captain's position other than the one he challenged for originally. This can go on for a total of 6 weeks, or 3 challenges. If a fourth is issued, then the Crew and Guild Captain will review if the reasons for refusal are valid. If they are not, they can choose to allow the fight anyway. Obviously this would be a rare occurance. Remember; as a Captain, if someone challenges you, would you, as that captain, just duck under your desk? If all you feel is fear, you don't need the position. Take a risk. You might even win.
condition 3: Final word. Ultimately there aren't going to be 200 witnesses to any captain bitchfight. What do we do? Easy. When the fight is over, have the Guild captain review it. He, and two impartial cre wmembers can go over the fight, check the posts, the dice rolls, everything, for cheating, falseness, and what have you. I doubt anyone would cheat, but it's basic human instinct to do everything not to lose. If any falsehoods are found, any cheating, the Guild Captain has the right to totally nullify the fight, or to assign additional damage, or a win or loss. This is in extreme cases, of course.
The other methods of reaching captain are slightly flawed in our case; having 3 witnessing or 6 recommending captains will be hard, when we have no captains at the outset. I'm assuming that Yamamoti Genryuusai will act as proxy for the remainder until we have at least 3 to 7 captains, then it will go from there.
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:05 pm
The Paradox I think in most cases, Captaincy is something that just comes with time. Let's face it; not every captain is a leader in the traditional sense. Would you all say Mayuri is a leader? I wouldn't. True, as a head scientist, he excels, but he's no leader in the sense most captains are. I think captains should not only be chosen based on the player's RP skills and ability to lead, but also if the person just FITS what he's trying to get into. Mayuri for example, again, is captain of 12th because he fits that mold. If he'd been applying for say..11th, he'd never have made it.
*Shrug* But it's all a matter of opinion, eh? heart Everyone is a leader if you look through the right looking glass, be it beer goggles or a microscope. :Heart: :Heart:Quote: A well developed character is a must. Having the ability to roleplay and be literate is all well and good, but just having them isn't enough. The character needs to develop, have a personality, have depth. I could go and earn thousands of exp and shoot to 50+ faster than anyone; but that doesn't develop anything about Megumi besides his fighting styles. I think a captain character should have depth both on a level of fighting, and on a level of peacetime/normal time behaviour. Mind you, some *characters* are so devoted to their own power that feasibly all they would do is fight and kill and main to learn (read: Zaraki Kenpachi), but those are rare. Notice how many Kenpachis thre are in Soul Society? Just one. Even 11th's men can release Shikai. Yet Zaraki can't. Really unusual characters like that should break a mold, not follow it. Quote: On the subject of Captaincy by battle: this is tricky In a guild like this one, PvP is kind of a 50/50 choice; if someone wins by pure luck or just good or bad fortune on the part of one or another, it can possibly cause bitterness. I mean, let's face it; if I was fighting someone and made excellent beautiful descriptive posts, only to be beaten by someone who posted crappily and just got good rolls, it would cheese me a bit. Stings the pride. I'm not saying anyone in the guild fails at posting or anything, that was just an example. I think if there is ever a duel for captainship, it should be a: cleared with the player who's playing the captain who will be challenged, since his character will be on the line here, and b; cleared with the Guild Leader and at least one or two Crew. While I understand that realism dictates that such a thing wouldn't happen in actual combative situations, it's just RP courtesy, if you're not a DM, to ask permission and clear it before trying to go off and kill someone's character. It represents a lot of work and thought.
I understand that it might not work that way in the actual SS as created by Kubo; Zaraki came at 11th's captain and won, and that was that. But in a cooperative interactive enviornment such as what we have here, I at least think there should be some conditions on challenging for captaincy.
The Guild Captain's and 1 or 2 Crew Members approval? Yes. I agree with you on the restrictions-but I think you haven't quite 'gone enough', since people will most likely be pounding Kenkaru's PM box for approval. I think that, in order to challenge a Captain for their rank, there should be restrictions. To avoid stress on the Crew, of course. :Heart:
Restrictions?:
#1 A week/month gap between Captainship bouts. Just a small period where the winner can rest up and actually be a captain so that stability can happen in Soul Society. I can imagine what would happen if the Crew allowed a captain to get flooded with battle request. Can you picture it? Imagine twelve-thousand ants attacking a grasshopper, with the ants slowly chewing off the limbs of the poor green bug.
#2 The minimum level a person can challenge a Captain should be 5 levels below the current Captain's level.
#3 Furfill the 'Gist' of what the squad represents. Mayuri, like you said Mr. Paradox, wouldn't quite 'fit in' with the Eleventh squad.
heart
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Dangerous Conversationalist
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:02 pm
Exactly. The time between really outlines it, too. Some characters have kind of 'general' ideals, which means they might fit for multiple leadership positions depending on how they eventually develop. Another good thing is Vice-Captainship; a Captain could pick his vice based on how well he or she fits with him in a rp sense, as well as other reasons; Everyone will shoot for top of the hill, hell, I'm guilty. I want a captain position too..
..it's also common sense, as stated, that in order to attain captainship, the challenger needs to be at least *of* the level to release Bankai to even throw the challenge out there, or have massive str/reiatsu like Zaraki did. So within 5 levels is a must. I concur there.
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:30 pm
The Paradox Exactly. The time between really outlines it, too. Some characters have kind of 'general' ideals, which means they might fit for multiple leadership positions depending on how they eventually develop. Another good thing is Vice-Captainship; a Captain could pick his vice based on how well he or she fits with him in a rp sense, as well as other reasons; Everyone will shoot for top of the hill, hell, I'm guilty. I want a captain position too..
..it's also common sense, as stated, that in order to attain captainship, the challenger needs to be at least *of* the level to release Bankai to even throw the challenge out there, or have massive str/reiatsu like Zaraki did. So within 5 levels is a must. I concur there.
However, it's not 'perfect' because the system then is slowing down the rate of progress of shinigami. We probably won't have any Captain leveled people till at least... One second..
If someone makes four posts a day, and there's 30 days in a mouth, they'd be making 120 posts per month. Right now, from my knowledge of Aradiah's system, a training post seems to worth roughly 1.25 XP. If my character's training a while ago is taken as an example ( 50 XP for 40 posts of training ), then the XP/post rate is '1.25'.
So, continuing with this logic, 120 posts in a month would give the person posting a increase of 150 XP monthly. Hm. It'd take (30,000 XP / 150 XP per month = 200) 200 months of training to get to lvl 30. Hm. That'd be (200 months / 12 years) 16 2/3 years of training on a 4 posts a day basis. Hm. So, if people only gained XP from training, we wouldn't have any Captains for 17 years? Thank god we can fight people for XP, neh?
Training, it seems, is out of the question for a main source of training, then. Fighting, however, isn't. Kenkaru gave Dischord, a Crewmember of this guild, 4500 XP for fighting a high level Arrancar with a level 1 character. Absolutely brilliant, I think, is the strategy of fighting a hollow that's about 20 levels (-ish?) higher than you and receiving enough XP to get boosted four-some levels. Roughly eight posts were made in that battle and the gal got a whooping 560 XP a post! Marvelous!
I just wish I could do that. :sigh: Fighting a high level monster/hollow/quincy/shinigami is out of the question for me because the control of high level beings (above lvl 5) is restricted to Crewmembers. So, fighting things above your level would get you to the Captain level (Lvl.30), in (30,000 XP / 560 XP per post = 54 posts) 54 posts. That'd be, with taking the 4 posts/day example said above, 0.45 of a month. Or 13 1/2 days.
Come to think about it, Ichigo did that very thing. In five-ish days he went from a cocky brat to a lieutenant slaying wonder-machine. 3nodding Brilliant. But, as I said before, people are limited to what NPCs they can control. So it's a Crewmember thing only. Only they can choose whom to allow a massive boost of XP.
However, that doesn't leave out the members of the forum fighting each other. There doesn't seem to be any localized levels (ex: lvl.1 vs lvl.1 battles) fighting each other yet. When that comes out we'll probably see Aradiah's marvelous skill at judging XP coming into play. When that happen we'll start seeing some numbers come in on her judgement on battles on a literacy, amount, and skill basis in a heightened degree. I simply cannot wait for that to happen! :Heart:
Either way Captain 'leveled' people won't be coming a long for a while I think. It'll be a while till the RPCs on this forum can really brag about being Byakuya or Renji leveled shinigami.
So, if the Crew need or want captains right at this very moment they'd have to make a judgement call (see my four points at the beginning of the thread, neh?) on whether a RPC qualifies for Captaincy. If I was a mod I'd be completely boned if I had to chose people from this guild to be the captains of divisions. There are quite a number of people in the guild who would simply be awesome leaders, and would be more than happy to accept a role in Soul Society as a captain. Paradox, for example, is an awesome person to have as a captain I think. He's active, intelligent.. Mostly, anyways. wink
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Dangerous Conversationalist
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:05 am
Actually, I was in that fight as well, and the only reason we even made ground is the fact that my Vaizard's hollow side managed to take dominance and Cero the b***h. I cleared everything with Ken first, actually, to the point of asking him w hat damage I'd feasibly do, aftereffects if any, and so on.
If you notice, Dischord's attack did very little damage to the Arrancar, and it was around 10 levels above us at the time. Another thing is it isn't just crew; We don't have much time to play. If we went on just play alone, we'd be way behind everyone, and in a gaming environment, while it's inevitable some will fall behind, there are circumstances beyond our control, and penalizing for that seems unfair. With her having just gotten out of surgery, and me helping to take care of a dying father-in-law, we don't have a lot of free time to play, and it's a pain..
I think Humbra's a cool enough player to become a captain as well. While I think sometimes he focuses on the numbers just a *bit* much, it's understandable. (not dissing or anything, dude). I've never been big on math, so I just play and let it go at that. XD
So much to reply to, and someone on another forum is irritating me sooo uh..I'll speak on the rest later. x.x
Anyway, back to it. Ken at one point actually asked if I wanted to be Crew, and I declined. Dischord also doesn't like to "spawn monsters" for herself or for me or anyone else at request, cos she thinks it's unfair. She leaves those kind of calls up to the Captain typically. I'm cool with that also. Tell the truth, we were just playing catch up because of all the stuff in our lives making us unable to post regularly. As is I'm working on another character and I don't expect him to advance quickly either.
Still, it's fun to play. Heh. I figure I'll advance when I do..x.x until then I'll just keep going.
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