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Rape and Fault.

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Half Baked SF

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:16 pm


If a woman is raped, is it her fault it ocurred or is it the rapist's fault?

Personally, I believe it all rests on the rapist. It doesn't matter if she was passed out naked on his bed, he is still responsible for his actions. Women don't possess mind-control powers to drive rapists to rape, they do it on their own free will.

However, people always like to make up some excuse on why rape victims have it coming.

Consider the rape case:

Suzie had made plans to go to her friend Becky's party and had made those plans weeks in advance.
She had set up to meet her friends beforehand so that they could all go together.
However Suzie and her boyfriend had, the night before the party, stayed out past curfew and her parents grounded her and told her she couldn't go to the party.
Distraught Suzie decided to go to the party anyway, and snuck out of her window on the night of the party.
She was walking along when a car pulled up next to her.
The boy driving the car was unfamiliar to her, but he said that they went to school together and that he was going to the party and asked if she wanted a ride.
Despite feeling uneasy she accepted and got into the car.
They talked for awhile on the way, and the boy seemed nice enough.
They pulled into a parking lot and Suzie asked what he was doing.
He said that he wanted to stop and get to know her.
She asked him to please keep driving, but he resisted.
He placed his hand on her thigh and began massaging her.
She pushed his hand away and tried to get out of the car, but he asked her to wait and he apologized.
She asked him to please drive to the party, but instead he raped her.


Now, with this situation it is debateable whether or not Susie shares some blame for her rape. Why? Why does some action she take make her responsible for the action of someone else?

Let's continue the story:

During the rape, a cop in the area was making his rounds. He saw the rape occurring and was outraged. He decided to take action. He broke into the car, dragged the boy out of it, and beat him.

Now, who is responsible for the beating? Obviously, the cop because he was the one doing the beating. However, the rapist made a choice that provoked the cop to beat him, just like Susie made a choice that moved him to rape. Is he still responsible for his own beating, or should the cop still be investigated for police brutality?

Funny how we're all responsible for our own actions and it's not our fault if someone does something horrible to us, but the second we're talking about a rape victim we wanna point the finger at her. What justifies this, exactly?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:37 am


Was the beating necessary? Rape is bad, but all it takes is the cop handcuffing the guy and locking him in the backseat until he can calm the girl down, possibly calling someone else in to pick up the rapist.

The cop definitely should be investigated for police brutality, but this doesn't necessarily mean that he was in excessive force. He could have been justified (such as if the guy was fighting back) and thusly not guilty of brutality, but we don't know that until the investigation is concluded.

In any case, it is the cop's fault that the rapist was being beaten and it is the rapist's fault that the girl was being raped. The girl was stupid for getting in the car, yes, but the girl getting in the car does not automatically mean that the rapist must rape her.

The reason why "we" point fingers at the rape victim isn't because rape is special but rather because this happens all the time in criminal justice. The defense will often try to point the blame towards whatever poor judgement on the victim's part might have led towards the situation in which the crime occured, especially if the evidence against the client appears to be insurmountable.

Hell, if it were possible, I'm sure someone would defend the 9/11 hijackers, saying that it's not their fault someone built the WTC towers so tall.

Lykus


Half Baked SF

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:55 pm


Lykus
Was the beating necessary? Rape is bad, but all it takes is the cop handcuffing the guy and locking him in the backseat until he can calm the girl down, possibly calling someone else in to pick up the rapist.

The cop definitely should be investigated for police brutality, but this doesn't necessarily mean that he was in excessive force. He could have been justified (such as if the guy was fighting back) and thusly not guilty of brutality, but we don't know that until the investigation is concluded.

In any case, it is the cop's fault that the rapist was being beaten and it is the rapist's fault that the girl was being raped. The girl was stupid for getting in the car, yes, but the girl getting in the car does not automatically mean that the rapist must rape her.

The reason why "we" point fingers at the rape victim isn't because rape is special but rather because this happens all the time in criminal justice. The defense will often try to point the blame towards whatever poor judgement on the victim's part might have led towards the situation in which the crime occured, especially if the evidence against the client appears to be insurmountable.

Hell, if it were possible, I'm sure someone would defend the 9/11 hijackers, saying that it's not their fault someone built the WTC towers so tall.
The beating wasn't necessary, but neither was the rape.

Anyway, I agree with you.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:14 pm


Now that's just unfortunate. If I were a bystander and I saw it happening, I WOULD BEAT THE CRAP out of the guy raping her with all of my power. Now, the problem is, cops are supposed to uphold the law, not use brutality. I really hope the cop, if this story is actually real, didn't lose his job, which is quite possible. Rape is a good majority of the time the man's fault. There are a few exceptions to this every now and then, like a girl going, "oh crap, nvm... I dont wanna have sex anymore", in that case there's not much she can do about it. But typically- it is the man's fault.

]Dreamz[


Cougar Draven

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:29 am


There's a reason that I typically do not involve myself in discussions of rape. To a certain extent, I pride myself on only using violence when necessary, and I know for a fact that if a friend of mine got raped, I'd hunt and kill without remorse. I'd likely severely injure a guy if I saw him raping a girl. I'm just like that.

So rape is wrong. And fault is fault. Yes, the girl made a mistake for allowing herself to be in that situation, but that doesn't mean she shares blame for someone doing that to her. At the same time, I don't think a jury would convict a cop for taking the nightstick to the rapist, especially if he caught it in progress.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:36 am


Toga! Toga!
Lykus
Was the beating necessary? Rape is bad, but all it takes is the cop handcuffing the guy and locking him in the backseat until he can calm the girl down, possibly calling someone else in to pick up the rapist.

The cop definitely should be investigated for police brutality, but this doesn't necessarily mean that he was in excessive force. He could have been justified (such as if the guy was fighting back) and thusly not guilty of brutality, but we don't know that until the investigation is concluded.

In any case, it is the cop's fault that the rapist was being beaten and it is the rapist's fault that the girl was being raped. The girl was stupid for getting in the car, yes, but the girl getting in the car does not automatically mean that the rapist must rape her.

The reason why "we" point fingers at the rape victim isn't because rape is special but rather because this happens all the time in criminal justice. The defense will often try to point the blame towards whatever poor judgement on the victim's part might have led towards the situation in which the crime occured, especially if the evidence against the client appears to be insurmountable.

Hell, if it were possible, I'm sure someone would defend the 9/11 hijackers, saying that it's not their fault someone built the WTC towers so tall.
The beating wasn't necessary, but neither was the rape.

Anyway, I agree with you.

Oh, of course the rape wasn't necessary. That much was self-evident.

Lykus


cookiemun5tr
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:37 pm


Depends. If the girl herself, foolishly got herslef into a situation like that, then it surely is her fault. But, if not, then she is not at fault.

Most people have a thing called common sense. But for many other people, they throw away this common sense and go out doing stupid things, which get them into situations such as rape. Which can lead to many other problems.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:20 am


cookiemun5tr
Depends. If the girl herself, foolishly got herslef into a situation like that, then it surely is her fault. But, if not, then she is not at fault.

Most people have a thing called common sense. But for many other people, they throw away this common sense and go out doing stupid things, which get them into situations such as rape. Which can lead to many other problems.
But what about the other situation? If I do something stupid and I'm beaten as a result, is it my fault I got a beating?

I don't care what the girl did, the rapist is responsible for his own actions. Girls don't have mind-control.

Half Baked SF


Suyakun
Captain

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:14 pm


It all is in the hands of the Rapist. Even if the girl was dumb enough to get drunk of her a** and get in a car with him. Unlike the cop, i would not beat someone who was raping a girl, I would kill them. Slightly sadistic i know, but I really don't think rapists should be allowed to exist (or at least exist with their reproductive organs still intact.)
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:09 pm


Master Draxxus
It all is in the hands of the Rapist. Even if the girl was dumb enough to get drunk of her a** and get in a car with him. Unlike the cop, i would not beat someone who was raping a girl, I would kill them. Slightly sadistic i know, but I really don't think rapists should be allowed to exist (or at least exist with their reproductive organs still intact.)
I agree. In my perfect world the rapist would be looked down upon more than the murderer. (The rape victim suffers longer.) But we can't always get what we want, can we?

Half Baked SF


Tzeentch The Mutator
Crew

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:33 pm


I have a small issue with rape. Not that rape isn't a bad thing, but that it can be a largely unprovable crime. A woman can always just say she was raped and if there is any evidence of intercourse between her and the "rapist" the conviction rate is extremely high. I agree that rape is entirely on the rapist, that person perpetrated a violent and heinous crime upon another's body, and should be punished. However, in many cases there is no statute of limitations on when a "victim" may report and charge someone with the rape. I find myself drawn 60/40 between "rape is a horrible and disgusting act" and "rape is a tool that any sufficiently vindictive woman can use against any man she takes issue with."
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:31 am


One thing that no one has mentioned is that by and large rape is not a crime of sexuality, it's a crime of power. A man doesn't rape a woman because he thinks she's hott, he asks her out on a date. A man rapes a woman to prove that he is more powerful than her. Think about it this way: there are little old ladies who get raped (gray hair, wrinkles, cane, the whole thing) does anyone really think that the man who raped them was sexually attracted to someone old enough to be his grandmother?

Rape is always the perpetrator's fault, because it's about that person trying to take power away from someone else.

Look at it this way: I'm driving through a bad part of town in my BMW (who cares why, maybe I'm lost) and my tire goes flat. I get out to take a look and someone notices the flashy car, the nice clothes and jewelry so they rob me. I put myself in a bad situation, is it my fault that I got robbed? No it's the fault of the man who robbed me. No lawyer or anyone for that matter would ever go to court with the premise that "he deserved to be robbed, he was a wealthy person in a bad part of town." Why do peope follow the same premise with rape? Bottom line: No means no (even if you are just about to stick it in) and no one has the right to victimize anyone else.

However, as was previously mentioned. Robbery is easy to prove. If someone robs me, the police will find evidence of that (my watch in his pocket for example). Evidence of rape is much more difficult to nail down (that's why women are encouraged to immeadiately report it and not stop home to shower or anything.)

hlmtwin


Tzeentch The Mutator
Crew

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 6:59 am


That's why it needs a statute of limitations, if you take longer than a week or two to report it, they can't prove it happened, but the perpetrator will more than likely still be convicted. I've just got a thing for habeas corpus. No evidence aside from personal testimony, no conviction.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:24 am


Scare Tactic Propaganda
Master Draxxus
It all is in the hands of the Rapist. Even if the girl was dumb enough to get drunk of her a** and get in a car with him. Unlike the cop, i would not beat someone who was raping a girl, I would kill them. Slightly sadistic i know, but I really don't think rapists should be allowed to exist (or at least exist with their reproductive organs still intact.)
I agree. In my perfect world the rapist would be looked down upon more than the murderer. (The rape victim suffers longer.) But we can't always get what we want, can we?


Then again, my views on this whole subject may be skewed as the person who has ever been closest to me in my entire life was a victim of such action. I have spent many restless nights in angry contemplation about what had happened to her. I would even go so far as to say that a law making it so that rapists once proven as a rapist would be forced into surgery making them un able to reproduce or even feel the "joy" of such actions. The surgery would have to be reversible though since the court system these days sucks and he or she might not really have been a rapist lol. Then again, (for a guy at least, not sure anything about girls) going to jail and being raped yourself is almost punishment enough it seems.

Suyakun
Captain

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