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 Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:04 pm
This thread is specifically for interaction between Astaire and her victi... er... mentees.
So. I'm Astaire. I'm an 18 year old poet/critic who has been writing poetry for about 10 years and critiquing for about 6. All I can say is that both require a lot of practice, learning and patience, but hard work is almost always paid off in both areas. It is with this knowledge that I hope to help the poets of this guild improve their poetry and guide them through their struggles. I've always taken the "I'm here to help" philosophy as a critic, so I figured I'd take the next step and become a mentor.
Generally, I write freeverse, but I have had some experience in form poetry. I have taken a few classes in high school and college (I'm a sophomore in college at the time of this post) but a lot of what I've learned is self-taught, with the help of other poets and critics.
I write, study and critique poetry because I love it. It's a passion of mine, and it's something I don't think I could live without. The art has defined a major portion of my life, and despite the love-hate relationship I often have with my work, it's amazing how much it defines me. I care a lot about the craft and the beauty of poetry, and I'm hoping (as mentees) that you do, as well.
Mentor's note: I have no dreaded Poetess Ego, but I have been known to be irredeemably blunt. It's something you'll have to get used to. heart
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:29 pm
I think you should know right now that I'm probably going to need a lot of help in this area. Sometimes, I'll get lucky and give a good critique; however, most of the time I'll get stuck with "It's not a good line, but I don't know what to suggest." Basically, I'll probably need a lot of help in this area. sweatdrop Here's my most recent (well, first on Gaia) critique: Kjralon my fingers have eyes, my eyes have bite
my voice has teeth,
sarcasm like stomach acid and blood, Usually, when I think of teeth, I don't think of sarcasm first. Perhaps you could put an adjective that would clue the reader in about the teeth being sarcastic?
churning;
i like to see your grin, shaky and unsure I like how the comma adds a sort of "shaky and unsure" feeling (like the wording of the poem), because it pauses just long enough; however, the pause it sort of abrupted. Very nice.
when i reach for you. This line is, honestly, a bore. I can assume you reached with a "c'm'ere baby wink " type look in your eyes. But did you reach quickly, slowly? Give us more than just "i reach for you."
my fingers pull you in,
threading through your hair
like floss,
like nails; I'd find a different word for "threading." I don't think I've ever seen a nail threading before. Wait a second. Are you saying the hair is like floss and nails? sweatdrop Still, I enjoyed this stanza.
my legs open
doors and your eyes
like sleek bullets,
things to be bitten down on
during amputation. I have nothing to say about this. It was amazing. Nice enjambnet (sp?).
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:55 pm
Pencilled In I think you should know right now that I'm probably going to need a lot of help in this area. Fair enough. Sometimes, I'll get lucky and give a good critique; however, most of the time I'll get stuck with "It's not a good line, but I don't know what to suggest." Heh. Even I end up doing that sometimes if a work is way out of my league. Basically, I'll probably need a lot of help in this area. sweatdrop Can do!Here's my most recent (well, first on Gaia) critique: Kjralon my fingers have eyes, my eyes have bite
my voice has teeth, Why aren't you asking about the lack of capitalization? Did the poet give an explanation for it?
sarcasm like stomach acid and blood, Usually, when I think of teeth, I don't think of sarcasm first. It's most likely a reference to "biting wit." Sarcasm is often referred to as "biting," meaning harsh. Also, there is a definite digestive system motif going on in these two lines. That you don't seem to comment on. Perhaps you could put an adjective that would clue the reader in about the teeth being sarcastic? Perhaps.
churning;
i like to see your grin, shaky and unsure I like how the comma adds a sort of "shaky and unsure" feeling (like the wording of the poem), because it pauses just long enough; however, the pause it sort of abrupted. Very nice.The comma is nice.
when i reach for you. This line is, honestly, a bore. I can assume you reached with a "c'm'ere baby wink " type look in your eyes. But did you reach quickly, slowly? Give us more than just "i reach for you."Yes. It is a bore, but also, where did that digestive system imagery go? Why did it disappear? Pay attention to imagery. If there's a theme, be sure to catch that, and see if it works throughout, or if it dies too quickly.
my fingers pull you in,
threading through your hair
like floss,
like nails; I'd find a different word for "threading." I don't think I've ever seen a nail threading before. Wait a second. Are you saying the hair is like floss and nails? sweatdrop Still, I enjoyed this stanza. Floss and nails aren't exactly similar. How could fingers be like BOTH of these things? Or is she referring to the fingers being nails and the hair being floss? I can see how the floss goes with the teeth in the first stanza, but this stanza is more confusing than anything else, unless you caught a meaning that I didn't... Yeah, I don't care for "threading" either, unless the author somehow makes what she's referring to clearer.
my legs open
doors and your eyes
like sleek bullets, Which are like sleek bullets? The eyes or the narrator's legs?
things to be bitten down on
during amputation. But I agree that these two lines are very nice. Gotta love the bite coming back at the end. I have nothing to say about this. It was amazing. Nice enjambnet (sp?).Enjambment. Okay. So, what I'm noticing is that you aren't really paying as much attention to the imagery as you SHOULD be. Think about it. Ask yourself if it make sense, and if it doesn't, why? In your defense, though, you did choose a poet with some talent, which is often harder to critique than those people who have no clue what the Hell they're doing. As you critique more, you'll be more sensitive to certain questions you should be asking (like about the capitalization.) In the meantime, though, I REALLY want you to work on paying more attention to imagery.
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:08 pm
Thank you.
I'll work on that with the next poem I critique. 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:11 pm
I critiqued another poem. One thing I noticed is that you mentioned the person I critiqued normally writes excellent poetry. Therefore, I decided to critique a person's poem, which I found unpleasant. I was still kind and courteous, however. Pencilled In Mr Submissive You walk by without a word I like the fact that you used alliteration in the first line. However, it's still not a strong beginning. It makes me want to know more. Are her footsteps silent, noisy, normal? Is her expression one of hate, or does she show no expression at all? Show me; don't tell me.As if you don't see me, I would suggest you insert a line break at this spot. As if I don't exist This would be the perfect spot for a great metaphor. Compare yourself to something invisible or barely noticeable. The second "as if..." isn't very pleasing. You could try something like "As if you don't see my body -- fragile air around your kicking face --"It's obvious you can't see how much you hurt me This line is an example of telling, which isn't very good. Show me the details. Is she hurting you on purpose? Does she smile as she hurts you? What are you doing to make her hurt you? Show us some imagery.How hard it is to get up every morning without you This line has some awkward syntax. "Now hard it is..." ? That reads funny. Once again, show me -- don't tell me. How are you waking up each morning? What does your face look like when you realize she's not with you?Next to me I like how this line stands alone. It's isn't a bad line, but with the context of the previous lines, it almost stands out as boring.It hurts to breathe What does the breath feel like? Is it a thousand spikes torturing your throat? Show me.to think without you This line is a filler line; it does nothing but clutters the poem up. I would suggest you throw this line out.without the chance that you'll say sorry one day You're telling me, instead of showing me. That's a major problem with this poem; it lacks imagery.Yeah It Wasn't My Fault
And You Shouldn't Of Lied To Me
But It Hurts Anyways I simply striked these lines out, because they are all filler lines. They could (and should) be thrown out, without the meaning changing a bit.I forgive you This is actually a decent ending. It's simple, yet powerful. However, like I said with the "Next to me" line, this one almost reads as being boring with the context of the lines before it.One major problem you have is lack of imagery and poetic devices. I found that you used a cliche subject without adding any sort of originality in the way you delivered the poem; that made for a pretty unpleasant read. I have one question for you: Why is there a major lack of puncuation? It doesn't help the poem; in fact, it hurts it a lot. The ideas are bumping into each other in an unpleasant manner. I'm not sure if this was your intention or not, but it's not a pretty sight.
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:39 am
Pencilled In I critiqued another poem. YAY! One thing I noticed is that you mentioned the person I critiqued normally writes excellent poetry. Yes. A lot of regs have trouble critiquing her because of that. Therefore, I decided to critique a person's poem, which I found unpleasant. HAH! Yeah. It's usually easier to critique poetry that's below your level of skill at first; usually there are a lot of obvious mistakes, and it helps you more easily identify mistakes when they're so blatant in a work. I was still kind and courteous, however. So long as you critique the poem and not the poet, you should be fine.Pencilled In Mr Submissive You walk by without a word I like the fact that you used alliteration in the first line. However, it's still not a strong beginning. It makes me want to know more. Are her footsteps silent, noisy, normal? Is her expression one of hate, or does she show no expression at all? Show me; don't tell me. Also... What is with the really... REALLY odd italics? WTF? It's like HTML vomited all over this poem, and it's REALLY distracting. OH. WAIT. Wasn't this Capitalize Every Word Guy? Ah. Usually, instead of italics, I alter color for spelling/grammatical errors; it stands out a lot more than italics. Anyway, yes, there is a lot he's leaving out. Also, WHO THE HELL IS WALKING BY HIM? We know he is addressing his listener, but these certainly aren't enough clues; Hell, we don't even KNOW if it's a he or she (be careful not to assume) let alone why said person is walking by. It certainly does sound like a female (lover, most likely) but not necessarily.As if you don't see me, I would suggest you insert a line break at this spot.Agreed. As if I don't exist This would be the perfect spot for a great metaphor. Compare yourself to something invisible or barely noticeable. The second "as if..." isn't very pleasing. You could try something like "As if you don't see my body -- fragile air around your kicking face --" Something like that. Though kicking face just makes me think of a giant foot coming out of the person's nose.It's obvious you can't see how much you hurt me This line is an example of telling, which isn't very good. Show me the details. Is she hurting you on purpose? Does she smile as she hurts you? What are you doing to make her hurt you? Show us some imagery.Yeah. And what makes it so obvious? What's obvious to him isn't obvious to US, necessarily.How hard it is to get up every morning without you You know, at this point, I'd give up on trying to fix every capitalization error and just tell the poet that he needs to fix it on his own, because it's a recurring error.This line has some awkward syntax. "Now hard it is..." ? I'm reading "How hard it is" in this. Seems that's an error on your part. That reads funny. Once again, show me -- don't tell me. How are you waking up each morning? What does your face look like when you realize she's not with you? There is a whole wealth of imagery he could go into with this. I agree.Next to me I like how this line stands alone. It's isn't a bad line, but with the context of the previous lines, it almost stands out as boring. So, you like how the line stands alone, but it's boring. So, would you suggest getting rid of it or moving it up or what?It hurts to breathe What does the breath feel like? Is it a thousand spikes torturing your throat? Show me. Indeed.to think without you This line is a filler line; it does nothing but clutters the poem up. I would suggest you throw this line out. YES. Always look for opportunities to cut off dead weight. Poetry is a very concise form of writing, so dead lines absolutely need to be removed.without the chance that you'll say sorry one day You're telling me, instead of showing me. That's a major problem with this poem; it lacks imagery. Besides, how does he know that she's never gonna say sorry? Did she tell him? Is she just that kind of person? Did she s**t on his lawn like a dog and spraypaint "******** YOU" on his car in neon orange? (Now THAT's some imagery for you.)Yeah It Wasn't My Fault
And You Shouldn't Of Lied To Me
But It Hurts Anyways I simply striked these lines out, because they are all filler lines. They could (and should) be thrown out, without the meaning changing a bit. Well, the lie bit is crucial information; he has yet to mention that this person lied to him until the very, very end. We now know the source of all this pain, suffering, and angst (on our part, at least, because it is the source of this poem.) Of course, it's cliche, and he's going to need to come up with some GOOD imagery to make it viable. But it's not TOTALLY useless. There is an important idea there to the poem, albeit a cliche one. The rest is filler, though.I forgive you This is actually a decent ending. It's simple, yet powerful. However, like I said with the "Next to me" line, this one almost reads as being boring with the context of the lines before it.So, strong ending, but boring. How does he fix that?One major problem you have is lack of imagery and poetic devices. I found that you used a cliche subject without adding any sort of originality in the way you delivered the poem; that made for a pretty unpleasant read. I have one question for you: Why is there a major lack of puncuation? It doesn't help the poem; in fact, it hurts it a lot. The ideas are bumping into each other in an unpleasant manner. I'm not sure if this was your intention or not, but it's not a pretty sight. I remember this one mentioning that English was not his first language. I decided not to touch his poetry with a ten foot pole, on the basis that my usual snark (see comment about shitting on lawn like a dog) would not be understood. Of course, that's not YOUR problem; after all, he didn't mention it at all before he got crit, and even if English isn't his first language, that only means that he should be paying EXTRA attention to things like spelling and punctuation.You have a lot of good comments in there; just be careful of the few things I pointed out.
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