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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:39 pm
Update: I just read some of the ship stats you posted. That has given me a good idea of what is going on. More specifically, then, what would you recommend as the boundaries, the upper limits, on a hypothetical empire I would design? In terms of territory, fleets, and ship sizes?
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Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:50 am
It depends on the nature of the faction. For example, the Mirai have large vessels because they are inhabited. This means that they have large power supplies and many weapons, but will try hard to avoid combat and probably cannot power all their weapons at once (at least not without preparation) because there is a high risk of casualties.
The Djin (as far as I am aware) have larger vessels because they are expected to operate independently. So while they may have a large number of large vessels, they are so spread out that it is unlikely any two will operate together.
On a smaller scale, Blue Hell is a powerful and well-equipped vessel, but is very small compared to other ships of similar power so it has disadvantages of taking a while to get any where and taking damage much more severely than larger opponents. Also, because it is smaller, it has a comparably small crew, which has benefits and disadvantages.
Basically, you just have to balance it. Try to find a drawback for every positive and state what that is. And we the admins will work with you and maybe suggest changes to what you first draw up.
The Guild centers on individual interactions so military might is less important and it can be more fun when two sides don't want to fight, but can't avoid it.
And for the size of a faction, I would suggest 10-20 star systems. That is what the Mirai have (sort of, they're all in one system, but spread out). The Orai have more than 10-20, but they are much more loosely controlled. The Konigserker only have two. Most factions are single-system, I believe.
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Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:34 pm
All right, thank you.
More questions:
Should I post my bios, technology, history, etc. as soon as I think of it, or should I PM it to you first for approval? I have a lot of ideas but I dont know how many of them will fly yet.
I am basing my knowledge of space combat on star wars- is that going to lead me astray? Do ships in this universe, as in the star wars universe, tend to be more manouverable and have higher acceleration rates the smaller they are, while the bigger the ship gets, the more cumbersome and sluggish it becomes to the point where the capital ships are almost static in comparison to the fighters buzzing around them?
What about souls? Do the energy beings actively place a soul in each new baby as it is born, or is it natural? Can I have a say in that decision, if it is not already made?
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Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Feel free to post whenever you are ready, but if you prefer, you can also PM me first and I'll give it a once over.
Smaller ships have less mass so they can change direction more easily and often faster due to better thrust-to-mass ratios, but that is not necessarily the case and larger ships will almost always be faster, but take longer to get up to speed.
Capital ships often appear to be static compared to fighters because the fighters usually originate from those ships and therefore have the same initial velocity. Fighters, being smaller and having greater thrust/mass ratios, have much better relative acceleration than the capital ships from which they launch, so over a limited time period they seem faster, but in the long run they will fall behind the capital ships.
And so far souls have not come up, but I think they can be assumed to occur naturally as a consequence of sentience (as distinct from sapience, one might note).
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:18 pm
Oz, I've looked at what you've posted so far and it looks great. Now you just need to decide how to incorporate this into the current roleplay. The easiest would be to make them a member of the Hall, but they could be solely engaged in trade with the IPU or the Hall. Or be about to make contact.
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:34 pm
The Renegades look good, but could you start a thread explaining their Soul Technology. I'm worried that it might be too powerful so I'd like to see some more about it, such as an explanation of the mechanisms behind it and how it would interact with other races and the degree to which other energy beings might affect it and vice versa.
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:24 pm
I plan to, as soon as possible. Dont worry, Soul weaponry is not nearly as powerful as some of the stuff other races have: Tiberium, GN particles, etc.
Personally, I am somewhat cowed by the grandoise display of advanced powers the races display:
Konigserker are going to wreck my entire army, because my guns and my missiles and my bombs wont have any effect on them. (could you explain exactly where the line is? what will work against them, and what wont?)
Mirai have huge fleets of invisible fighters. (Is there a place where you explain how stealth tech works?) Dijn (i think that is how you spell it) have GN particles that make my people feel peaceful and happy. (There probably is an explanation for that, I just havent read it yet)
Any one of those three races would completely revolutionize my tactics-- all three? I dont see how my people will survive.
Especially since my brother's race is almost entirely (though accidentally) geared towards killing mine.
I am not too worried because my people will put up a good fight, but still...
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:35 pm
What you have so far looks pretty good, but I think that the effects of Soul Weaponry would be slightly different from what you say. The manufacturing process sounds good, though. As does the God Shroud and the Psi-Amplifier.
With Soul Weaponry, the only major enhancement is that every bullet actually has a soul. While that would definitely have some powerful effects, I don't think it would be as direct as you say.
By being sentient, at least to a limited degree, it would be possible for these bullets to adjust themselves in some ways. For example, correcting their trajectory to better impact the desired target or avoid collateral damage. Also, reacting to the type of target, on impact; such as expanding in soft tissue or compressing and hardening to penetrate armor or counteracting shields (to a limited degree, of course) with minute energy fields.
Also, I think that Soul Weapons could be extremely powerful against sentient beings because it is able to attack the Soul directly (kind of like two Energy Beings canceling each other out). It would be something like a slow poison or sickness that affects being who are shot with even just one bullet. Over a period of time (which varies depending on the strength of the being and the gravity/number of the wound or wounds) the being will wither and die without any obvious physical cause and in spite of any form of medical treatment (with the possible exception spiritual/energy-based healing).
What do you think of that as opposed to what you originally wrote? With those effects, the poisoning may not work depending on the degree to which an Energy interacts with the race it created and the knowledge that race has of the Energy dimension. However, this kind of weapon could also be modified to act in a similar way to the God Shroud. When a being is hit by one of these modified rounds, it has the effect of cutting that being off from the Energy Plane, resulting in a lose of powers and connection to any Energy Being that can only be remedied by the direct intervention of a knowledgeable outside source, such as another Energy Being acting through a lesser being.
If you want, you can keep what you have, but I think what I have suggested for Soul Weapons is also reasonable given their manufacturing process and has the benefit of being potentially more adaptable and also more general. It does not describe specifically what will happen, just what would happen in a particular situation so it makes it easier to figure out what effects Soul Weapons would have in situations that have yet to be described.
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:57 am
What you have suggested certainly is reasonable, and it is probably more interesting than the mundane effects I had thought of.
However, I did choose those effects for a reason; my race is generally on a technology level much lower than that of the Mirai and Orai (probably just above that of the Konigserker) and so I did not want my Renegade forces (who already are disadvantaged by small numbers and no home planet) to come up against an "Our weapons have no effect!" situation.
Giving soul weaponry more power means that Renegade forces are capable of inflicting much damage but also relatively incapable of defending themselves against attack (Izani do not really have personal shielding tech or even power armor)
I can easily imagine the Renegades using the kind of Soul Weaponry you described, though I think it would change the way their tactics work: they would become more like assassins and lurking spies than brazen warriors.
I think I would like them better as brazen warriors. It just seems to fit well with the way I have imagined them.
Also, I think that the way I described is fully realistic: Not having a mind to think with or mobile body parts to move, the soul would become obsessively attached to it's body as it is, and the soul would be literally forced to use telekinesis of sorts because it has no other way to move.
Thus it would tend to resist change by cooling down and holding together the atoms of the bullet.
It is a brutal process, a cruel way to imprison a soul and force it into a very limited life. I do not think those souls, if they could think, and if they could know of their disadvantaged position, would look kindly on the Renegades.
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:00 pm
I do like the idea of the soul poisoning, that would be great if the Soul Weaponry could have both soul poisoning and the effects I described, though of course if you think that would make it too powerful...
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:30 pm
I don't understand exactly how the weaponry as I described it would lead to the weapons having no effect.
Basically, I'm afraid that what you described could be summed up as, "are weapons are better than yours," which is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.
As I describe it, the primary effect of Soul Weaponry would be that a single type of round has anti-armor, anti-personnel, anti-(energy)shield, and explosive capabilities. And this effect could not be lost unless by the direct intervention of any energy being.
Soul Poisoning and Shrouding would be secondary (likely unintentional) consequences of the tortured nature of the Souls that make up the rounds. As would be the increased accuracy.
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:56 pm
They would not have no effect whatsoever, I was thinking of the classic sci-fi horror scenario: Some alien monster or monstrous alien has skin thick enough or technology advanced enough to shrug off pretty much anything we can throw at it.
For example, the energy shields of the Orai sound pretty powerful to me.
Also the armor of the Mirai sounds like it could block conventional bullets... which is what my men would be using, if not for the Soul Weaponry.
Soul Weaponry might indeed be better than the Harper Longblaster or the MACAW, but so is a lot of things, right? Specifically, the sword/blaster thingies the Mirai and Orai use.
And yes, Soul Weaponry as I described it does make it a multipurpose weapon, useful against anything but soft, fleshy opponents. However, the degree to which it is useful is yet to be determined.
If you so desire, we could scale back the effects so much that Soul ammunition is only, say. 25% more penetrating than normal ammo?
As I had imagined it, Soul Weaponry was roughly 50% more powerful against armor and maybe 300% more powerful against shields (while being a good deal less effective against unarmored opponents) but if you would like to change those percentages I wholeheartedly support that. It is, after all, your Guild.
Explosive? I had not intended that, but I see how that could be. And yes, the soul poisoning and the shrouding would probably be counted as secondary effects. I do think they add a lot to the idea, they certainly make Soul Weaponry a lot more interesting. I had thought, though, that they would make it too powerful. Again, it is up to you.
Also, I think "our weapons are better then yours" is the lesser of the two evils, when compared to "our weapons have no effect." At least with the former, you can shoot me first. (again, the Renegades have little to no armor) With the latter, our only recourse (barring creative improvisation) is to run away.
Personally, I think when it comes to powerful technology, Soul Weaponry is the least of our worries. I know you have probably talked to them about this, but the Tiberium crystals and the GN particles sound extremely poweful. Also, the Konigserker's ability is mind-boggling: Does it really protect against all direct attacks, even physical ones like punches? How could you possibly fight the Konigserker when they have such power? Also, the Mirai have invisibility technology which (while well explained) is very good. By my understanding, any person or ship can be rendered invisible to all forms of magnetic-wave detection for relatively little energy cost! Especially in space, where there is no sound, how am I supposed to detect and protect against Stealthvipers?
Again, you're the boss. But my race feels that they are small and weak by comparison to the older residents of this universe.
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:09 pm
I think you over-estimate a lot of the other aspects of the Guild.
The way that I look at it, there are two ways of looking at Soul Weaponry (I'll call them DSW and OSW, mine and yours, respectively). These are the two:
DSW: Soul Weapons are a form of traditional firearm, except that rounds are imbued with Souls. These Souls are highly tortured and miserable, as a result of their manufacture. As such, while not suicidal per se, these Souls are nihilistic and destructive. As weapons, this has the benefit that a round will act in whatever way will most damage the intended target. These rounds are therefore, simultaneously anti-personnel, anti-material, armor-penetrating, shield-penetrating, and explosive. Additionally, there are two unintended side-effects of Soul Weaponry, Soul Poisoning and Soul Shrouding. Soul Poisoning is the inexplicable weakening and death of being hit with even a single Soul Round over a period of time, despite any medical intervention or physical signs of recovery. Soul Shrouding is the isolation of a being from its Creator; it is instantaneous and can only be reversed by overcoming Soul Poisoning or by direct physical contact with one's Creator (which also cures Soul Poisoning).
OSW: Soul Weapons are a form of traditional firearm, except that rounds are imbued with Souls. These Souls lend certain advantages over traditional rounds, generally higher energy levels, greater efficacy against energy shields, and any special abilities or effects granted by the Soul's Creator. Soul Rounds fly faster, farther, and penetrate deeper than other projectiles.
Correct me if I am wrong in my summary or my understanding.
DSW would be comparable to any other weapon technology. OSW probably would be, too, but that's harder to argue because the description uses comparatives.
The percentages you listed for OSW are fine, I think.
Again, I think you over-estimate the power of other technologies. And I think you misunderstand the Konigserker's protection. It is only protection from the direct attacks of another Energy Being. This will sometimes cancel the abilities of other races directed against the Konigserker, but will not prevent any physical attacks. Also, with the Mirai invisibility, that will not stop subspace, gravitic, or tachyonic detection methods.
I think you're underselling yourself a lot. The Zaan technology looks about on par with everyone else by what I see. Certainly, some races are more advanced, but they have other disadvantages. Soul Weaponry is really powerful for a number of reasons.
Imagine (with DSW), even if the Renegades lose a battle, any wounded on the other side are almost sure to die in the aftermath of the battle due to the Soul Poisoning. And in battle, Soul Rounds wear down enemy shields faster, penetrate armor and/or explode (when penetration is unsuccessful or impossible), and devastate soft targets. No other race has weaponry that is so adaptable. Plus, Soul Rounds can be fired from Rail guns (which, if Zaan hasn't developed them yet, can be developed from technology acquired through the Stargate) and can be scaled up or down for use in small arms, on air/space fighters and mechs, and as the main weaponry of capital ships.
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:38 am
Allright, I agree.
DSW sounds great. If you agree, I shall modify my posts to reflect that description. OSW, as I see it, is a more mundane version of DSW. I am willing to use OSW if you think DSW is too powerful.
As for corrections: I do not think they have explosive capability. That would literally be suicide for the bullet. Also, I think it is a good thing for them to have a weakness--specifically, soft targets.
I did misunderstand the other technologies, thank you for clarifying.
And yes, I did plan to use railguns.
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:40 pm
It's your race so you have ultimate control, but I don't think that DSW is too powerful, I think it is a better fit for the Guild given the technology of the other races. I also agree that OSW is a more mundane version of DSW.
My thinking with the explosive aspect is that these bullets would actually be suicidal because the process which created them robbed them of their bodies, their upbringing, and any form of fulfilled life. It would be the same thing when they go against soft targets. The only feeling left to them is basically direct contact so when they hit another being, they want to spread out to do as much damage as possible (to share the most pain). That's what Soul Poisoning is, the soul of the bullet latching onto the soul of the being it impacted, slowly weakening and destroying it out of malice and jealousy.
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