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 Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:27 am
Thanks to the posting glitch, read this post FIRST.  She laughed a wicked laugh and said...Who says he's a "professional" piercer? The actual damage-able glands he's talking about are farther back in the mouth, where cheek piercings tend to rub on. If cheek piercings are pierced any farther back than the first molar, you risk damage to them. These will NOT leak saliva like cheek piercings tend to. How do I know? I understand basic anatomy. There is NOTHING of serious importance in the area of the mouth where the Dahlia's are. And if he were a professional, he'd know that Dahlia's, dimple piercings, and cheek piercings are THREE DIFFERENT THINGS. That's like saying a labret (the T is actually pronounced because it's not a "French" word) piercing, a right side lip, and a left side lip piercing are all the same thing. Labret (..La' bret..) is formed by compounding the Latin word labrium meaning Lip and – et meaning "small" or "something worn on." There is even an archaic form of the word "Labretifery" which means "the practice of wearing labrets." So technically any lip piercing can be called a labret, but we've chosen different names for them to differentiate between the various kinds. Cheek piercings can leak because the flat back of the barbell rubs against and damages the actual salivary glads. There is NOTHING in the corners of the mouth to damage. So these won't leak, they won't ooze, nothing. Cheek piercings are these: See hereDimple piercings are these: Not much difference, because most dimples appear on your cheeks.THESE are Dahlia's: Dahlia piercingsSee? They are different things. Since not everyone has dimples, you can kinda say that cheek piercings and dimples are the same thing, or so close they're pretty darn similar. Like a Daith and a Forward Helix piercing, they're so close to each other, even though they're considered different things, it's easy to get them confused. "Come here, let me clip your wings"
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:02 am
Jagger-Wolf She laughed a wicked laugh and said...Who says he's a "professional" piercer? The actual damage-able glands he's talking about are farther back in the mouth, where cheek piercings tend to rub on. If cheek piercings are pierced any farther back than the first molar, you risk damage to them. These will NOT leak saliva like cheek piercings tend to. How do I know? I understand basic anatomy. There is NOTHING of serious importance in the area of the mouth where the Dahlia's are. And if he were a professional, he'd know that Dahlia's, dimple piercings, and cheek piercings are THREE DIFFERENT THINGS. That's like saying a labret (the T is actually pronounced because it's not a "French" word) piercing, a right side lip, and a left side lip piercing are all the same thing. Labret (..La' bret..) is formed by compounding the Latin word labrium meaning Lip and – et meaning "small" or "something worn on." There is even an archaic form of the word "Labretifery" which means "the practice of wearing labrets." So technically any lip piercing can be called a labret, but we've chosen different names for them to differentiate between the various kinds. Cheek piercings can leak because the flat back of the barbell rubs against and damages the actual salivary glads. There is NOTHING in the corners of the mouth to damage. So these won't leak, they won't ooze, nothing. Cheek piercings are these: See hereDimple piercings are these: Not much difference, because most dimples appear on your cheeks.THESE are Dahlia's: Dahlia piercingsSee? They are different things. Since not everyone has dimples, you can kinda say that cheek piercings and dimples are the same thing, or so close they're pretty darn similar. Like a Daith and a Forward Helix piercing, they're so close to each other, even though they're considered different things, it's easy to get them confused. "Come here, let me clip your wings" Dahlia/Dimple/Cheek/etc are generally interchangeable, regardless of whether the person has physical dimples or not. The biggest difference is the area in which you live. I know that on the East Coast they are more likely to be termed "cheek" piercings, whereas on the West they are more commonly known as "dimple." The term "Dahlia" piercing is fairly new, due to media hype of the "Dahlia" names (such as the band, the murders, etc), and is still commonly regarded as the "standard" cheek piercing. As for the ducts in your cheek; take an anatomy class, speak to some renowned piercing artists (such as Steve Hayworth), and read up on some material (such as "The Piercing Bible"). The ducts are not stationary (and neither are the piercings), so you run into two possible problems with ANY cheek piercings. There are many documented cases of multiple types of cheek piercings (and some fringe oral/cheek piercings) that have come into contact with the saliva ducts via migration of both the ducts and the piercing itself. When interfered, you can have multiple types of problems arise, such as a continual oozing of the piercing (saliva duct severed, and with constant agitation refuses to heal), total blockage of saliva duct (generally when a larger gauge is initially used that intersects the duct, where the jewelry acts as a dam to the duct), infections (mostly due to smokers, poor oral hygiene, and unsafe oral sex), etc. To top it all off, no one's body is exactly the same as the model used in an anatomy class. Everyone's ducts are in a different place, different size, different rates of migration, etc. Unless the piercing artist used an x-ray to determine where your ducts were, don't be so sure that there is nothing there, as you claim. As for the term "labret", you are correct, the "t" is not silent, but every form of oral piercing directly around the lips (and in some cases slightly lower, such as a "low labret piercing") is considered a labret piercing. If you go into a piercing studio asking for a labret piercing, and you are not asked where you want it, seek another studio, as they do not realize the terminology of the field that they work in.
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:56 am
Thanks to the posting glitch, read this post SECOND. DarkLordDiasnis Dahlia/Dimple/Cheek/etc are generally interchangeable, regardless of whether the person has physical dimples or not. The biggest difference is the area in which you live. I know that on the East Coast they are more likely to be termed "cheek" piercings, whereas on the West they are more commonly known as "dimple." The term "Dahlia" piercing is fairly new, due to media hype of the "Dahlia" names (such as the band, the murders, etc), and is still commonly regarded as the "standard" cheek piercing. As for the ducts in your cheek; take an anatomy class, speak to some renowned piercing artists (such as Steve Hayworth), and read up on some material (such as "The Piercing Bible"). The ducts are not stationary (and neither are the piercings), so you run into two possible problems with ANY cheek piercings. There are many documented cases of multiple types of cheek piercings (and some fringe oral/cheek piercings) that have come into contact with the saliva ducts via migration of both the ducts and the piercing itself. When interfered, you can have multiple types of problems arise, such as a continual oozing of the piercing (saliva duct severed, and with constant agitation refuses to heal), total blockage of saliva duct (generally when a larger gauge is initially used that intersects the duct, where the jewelry acts as a dam to the duct), infections (mostly due to smokers, poor oral hygiene, and unsafe oral sex), etc. To top it all off, no one's body is exactly the same as the model used in an anatomy class. Everyone's ducts are in a different place, different size, different rates of migration, etc. Unless the piercing artist used an x-ray to determine where your ducts were, don't be so sure that there is nothing there, as you claim. As for the term "labret", you are correct, the "t" is not silent, but every form of oral piercing directly around the lips (and in some cases slightly lower, such as a "low labret piercing") is considered a labret piercing. If you go into a piercing studio asking for a labret piercing, and you are not asked where you want it, seek another studio, as they do not realize the terminology of the field that they work in. I still think you're wrong. Name dropping piercers won't help you. Where the Dahlia's are placed they run NO risk of interfering with the major saliva glands. See? (sorry for the huge image): Generally speaking, for the good majority of the population, this is what their mouths would look like. Yes, every body is different. I'm sure if my piercer felt this was a bad idea, she'd have stopped me. This is why when doing cheek piercings you do NOT go past the first molar, because you run the risk of the jewelry damaging the parotid ducts, that causes leaking and oozing, and cannot be fixed. The MAJOR glands are no where near the corners of the mouth. And if these migrate, I would assume that they'd migrate outward, or downward, not BACKWARDS toward the glands. Really, I'm starting to doubt that you know what you're talking about. If you do, great, but for some reason every time you name drop you loose "respectable" points with me. I can name drop too, if I wanted. Doesn't mean anything. My piercer's name is Terrie and she was trained buy Chuck. BOTH were rated the best body piercers in Western Washington. She spent 2 years in an apprenticeship and would have refused to do the Dahlia's if she thought they were dangerous. If I'd have asked for CHEEK piercings, I'd have gotten them. If I'd have asked for DIMPLE piercings, I'd have gotten the closest thing (since I don't have dimples). It is true the Dahlia's are supposed to have gotten their name from the Black Dahlia murder, be in the movie, the band, the actual, whatever. They've also been called Joker's, you can guess why. It has nothing do do with region what they're called. If you go into a piercing studio and ask for a labret, you're 98% going to get the lower center. If you get asked where otherwise, great. But the general understanding of a LABRET piercing is the lower center. If I asked for a top lip right labret, that would be a Monroe. We've come up with different names for various labret piercings to differentiate them from one another, which is fine. If I went in to any reputable, legit piercing studio and asked for cheek piercings, dimple piercings and Dahlia/Jokers, they'd know that those were THREE different things. Just as the labrets are called different things based on their locations. "Come here, let me clip your wings"
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:08 pm
Thanks to the posting glitch, read this post THIRD. She laughed a wicked laugh and said...And I think you mean Steve Haworth, not HAYworth. You got his name wrong. For someone who likes to name drop, you should at LEAST get his name right. You mean this guy?"Come here, let me clip your wings"
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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:49 pm
Jagger-Wolf She laughed a wicked laugh and said...Dimple and cheek piercings are almost the same thing. Dimples appear on your cheeks, these are too far in to be dimple piercings.
I hate LA Ink. I refuse to watch that garbage. "Come here, let me clip your wings" @ Bold: I hear ya girl. Talk about some unrealistic drama.
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:42 am
(Due to "posting glitches" it will be easier to compile the response in a single post)
Yes, the name was misspelled, taking into consideration the flu and lack of sleep as of late. But, regardless, that is the same man. Having obtained most of my training in body modification from him, I trust and respect his advice. One bit of advice that he so kindly gave me was to be wary of cheek piercings (of any sort, not the supposed "cheek" piercing) as the human body is capable of strange things, some of which being migration of glands and ducts. While yours may be in no immediate danger, it is a possible risk that anyone getting an oral piercing in the cheek area has to consider. If it never acts up on you, congrats, if it does, that's one of the risks of the field. Yes, generally speaking, you shouldn't have a problem with those cheek piercings, but there is that small percentage that has to worry about it. Not having cut you open, thrown you in an x-ray scan, and generally violated every possible idea of personal boundaries, I don't know your exact anatomy, but take this into consideration, no one does. I've lived in my body for quite some time, and have yet to fully realize everything that it entails. You also fail to realize I'm not talking about the glands of the mouth, I'm talking about the ducts, which are found all over the mouth. While, yes, there is the "main" duct (the parotid duct), there are minor ducts that are found all throughout your cheek. I understand that any respectable piercing artist will not pierce through the parotid gland (I've turned down many people for that reason alone), but you also have to take into consideration the ducts of the mouth.
A 2-year apprenticeship isn't anything spectacular for your artist: most decent artists go through at least 2 years, if not more. The sad thing about apprenticeships is that the length of an apprenticeship doesn't mean anything. A 2-year apprenticeship means they spent 1 year and 6 months doing menial tasks about the studio, while the owners made sure the person was more than willing to stick with them. Learning piercings isn't done over 2 years of an apprenticeship; it is learned via hands-on methods.
"General Understandings" in a studio get you in trouble. A studio that doesn't cover all of their bases in the preliminary questioning (age, medical problems, blood diseases, exactly where they want the piercing, etc) shows me that they don't cover all of their bases behind the curtain. Call me picky, call me paranoid. There is a standard that I believe every body modification studio should uphold, and if they do not, they do not get any of my business, nor any of my respect. My studio holds a higher integrity than most, and that's what I strive for. If someone comes in asking for a "Dahlia", I ask them where exactly they want it (and most times it ends up being something else, as people have a problem with analyzing their own body accurately). Names are just that; names. They are not exact positioning of piercings on the body, as everyone is different, and what may be (by measurements and distance) a Dahlia for person X may actually be a Dimple (by body features).
Now, I could get into nitpicking (about how you attempt to name drop after stating it doesn't do anything, the fact that you berate me for misspellings, yet cannot proof-read your own posts, logical problems, etc) but that's what the ED is for.
Like my input or not, these are the things I was taught, and this is my field of profession and expertise.
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:35 am
She laughed a wicked laugh and said...Your profession, huh? Your profile says you don't work in that field at all, you're some kind of sound guy. If you are a piercer, you should change your profile, so people might actually take you seriously. If you work in the body mod field you should be proud of it and tell people. I think you don't know anything.
Whatever, it doesn't matter. I know my s**t, I know what I'm talking about. And you don't. It doesn't matter, the FACTS are:
1) Were the Dahlia's are pierced will NOT interfere with the saliva ducts AT ALL.
2) Cheek piercings, dimple piercings and Dahlia piercings are all DIFFERENT things.
3) Your name-dropping means nothing. You probably saw his name somewhere, thought what he did was cool, and decided you'd look cool if you pretended you knew him.
3a) Name-dropping is only cool if you actually KNOW these people personally, are friends with them, and have worked with them. I can assume you haven't, at all, and just want to look like you know your s**t. You don't.
Done. "Come here, let me clip your wings"
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:07 pm
She laughed a wicked laugh and said...By the way, I stated my piercers names because it's easier to tell that story that way. I could have said it like this "My piercer spent two years training under the other piercer at that shop (there are two of them) and they were both voted best of western Washington, yadda yadda."
I see no logical errors or spelling errors, what do you see?
If you really know the guy, why can't you spell his name, TWICE? You can't blame it on the flu, that's not an excuse. I know half a dozen NAMES in the industry too, I don't drop their names because I don't know them personally, and name dropping people I don't know is stupid. "Come here, let me clip your wings"
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:35 am
your piercings are cute, however they look a bit far from the corner of the mouth to be a Dahlia, they do look a bit closer to dimple, could be the swelling, but I dont think the distance will change much and plop them down right at the corners. Probubly why theres so much confusion of everyone calling them something else. Thats exactly why I ask all my clients where they want their piercings regardless of what they call them. there is some regional differences to the names of piercings like Dark Lord said. My philtrim, is also known as a medusa, but i've also heard it called an "upper labret" , my "labret" is often simply called a lip piercing because its much higher then a standard labret. The Bridge is called an earl, the monroe is also a madonna and a beauty mark, etc etc....so any reasonable piercer SHOULD have the client point out where they think their piercing goes, so that they are both on the same page. Any cheek piercing can leak, thats a fact, regardless of the name they are called, and the last molar has very little to do with if they leak or not, its just a crap shoot when piercing cheeks anywhere. So again Dark Lord is correct in that. As long as the client is aware that there may be those side affects its all that matters. Now before thinking Im a Dark Lord fan, be aware, if you scroll down to some other piercing discussions, we usually agree to disagree.....its the nature of our business, and why I dont go to Piercer conventions lol!
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:24 pm
She laughed a wicked laugh and said...Well, yes, everyone's face is different. If you ask for a Monroe or Madonna (which are different Monroe is on the right and Madonna is left), the piercer knows what you're talking about, then they mark you for it. I didn't mean that they just poke away. Of COURSE they're going to make a mark for your individual face.
I talked to my piercer when I went in for the Dahlia's. She didn't want to go any farther in in case of rejection and when I smile they're pretty close to the very corner, so any farther in and we might have run into problems. She'd never done these herself, so it was a bit of an experiment for both of us. And besides, if I was REALLY concerned about it I can always let them heal up and get them redone.
If you pierce cheek piercing past the first molar, you greatly increase your chances of damaging the saliva ducts, since that's where all the plumbing for that is, mostly. They STILL can cause damage, but it's a much reduced risk if they're pierced no farther back than the first molar.
Yes, any oral piercing can leak if you leave the jewelry out. There's a hole in your face, things are going to come out. Cheek piercings can ooze even with jewelry in them, so no, these won't leak like cheek piercings do. "Come here, let me clip your wings"
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:47 am
Jagger-Wolf She laughed a wicked laugh and said...Well, yes, everyone's face is different. If you ask for a Monroe or Madonna (which are different Monroe is on the right and Madonna is left), the piercer knows what you're talking about, then they mark you for it. I didn't mean that they just poke away. Of COURSE they're going to make a mark for your individual face.
I talked to my piercer when I went in for the Dahlia's. She didn't want to go any farther in in case of rejection and when I smile they're pretty close to the very corner, so any farther in and we might have run into problems. She'd never done these herself, so it was a bit of an experiment for both of us. And besides, if I was REALLY concerned about it I can always let them heal up and get them redone.
If you pierce cheek piercing past the first molar, you greatly increase your chances of damaging the saliva ducts, since that's where all the plumbing for that is, mostly. They STILL can cause damage, but it's a much reduced risk if they're pierced no farther back than the first molar.
Yes, any oral piercing can leak if you leave the jewelry out. There's a hole in your face, things are going to come out. Cheek piercings can ooze even with jewelry in them, so no, these won't leak like cheek piercings do. "Come here, let me clip your wings" So you are finally admitting that DarkLordDiasnis is right??
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:55 am
Blackhorn- the Legend Jagger-Wolf She laughed a wicked laugh and said...Well, yes, everyone's face is different. If you ask for a Monroe or Madonna (which are different Monroe is on the right and Madonna is left), the piercer knows what you're talking about, then they mark you for it. I didn't mean that they just poke away. Of COURSE they're going to make a mark for your individual face.
I talked to my piercer when I went in for the Dahlia's. She didn't want to go any farther in in case of rejection and when I smile they're pretty close to the very corner, so any farther in and we might have run into problems. She'd never done these herself, so it was a bit of an experiment for both of us. And besides, if I was REALLY concerned about it I can always let them heal up and get them redone.
If you pierce cheek piercing past the first molar, you greatly increase your chances of damaging the saliva ducts, since that's where all the plumbing for that is, mostly. They STILL can cause damage, but it's a much reduced risk if they're pierced no farther back than the first molar.
Yes, any oral piercing can leak if you leave the jewelry out. There's a hole in your face, things are going to come out. Cheek piercings can ooze even with jewelry in them, so no, these won't leak like cheek piercings do. "Come here, let me clip your wings" So you are finally admitting that DarkLordDiasnis is right?? No, he's still wrong. Read everything, and he's still wrong. "Come here, let me clip your wings"
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:59 pm
O.o Really? Sounded to me like you came to the same conclusion he did.... Perhaps that's just what you wrote, and not what you meant.
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