|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:36 pm
i have no dought that you all will make a good gov. im saying that in the future (our children, and their children) would become corrupt. like, my founding fathers were filled with passion, passion to make a free country. free of corruption, and free of taxes. now we have rode tax, import tax, finders tax, export tax, sayles tax,property tax, and much much more!!! and the gov. is litaraly giveing all our money away! the fact is, is that even with the greatest of intentions, anything will fall from its cource. also why i said science proves that im more mature for my age, is because i have a syndrome that makes me it. im sad to say it, but sometimes i wish we would have a nucular war, so when everyones dead, and the radiaition is gone, the world would be as it was free of the all powerful mankind...my dream is to live in the mountains, liveing together with nature...but i cant, because i know that one day it will be gone, the world will grow and consume everything. so i am forced to change my dream...to protect nature...and what if you do succeed in unifiying the world into a perfect gov? what will hapen to my beloved forest? will the world continue growing? and take away what i so despretly want? with out war, and disese mankind will continue to grow, and deplete the world of what is theres.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:14 am
Actually Atomisk I am much like you in some respects. I am quite the nature guy, I feel for the trees, the landscapes, and most of the creatures of this world (I still try not to kill any, as they are living creatures, but some just get in the way and make me very uncomfortable: i.e. mosquitoes, cockroaches, etc.). I will do everything in my power to ensure that we as a human race live as humanely and efficiently as possible. Truth be told that if you were to have every single person in the world live in the "American way" you would need the resources of ten Earths. Americans are damn wasteful, both with their resources and theire money. That is something I will seek to remedy.
As for the perfect government, we're working on that... So far we haven't found anything globally acceptable. But please, members of the Darkstar Party, take criticism with a little bit more sugar; and you folks who are with atomisk, give criticism with more taste. To improve we need more detailed criticisms than, "Said plan will not work!!!" Give us reasons examples and, if you can, alternatives. I have one key word to all workings within this guild.
Compromise : Peacefully, it's how best to reach a common goal between two opposing factions. Those who will not seek compromise are oft times selfish and close-minded.
(Oh, and Raptoria: I don't think anything's wrong. You're still able to post in the guild so I think you must still be a member. The names in the list move around a lot when new members join.... )
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:14 am
We really have two choices here. We can either leave the current massively corrupted and ineffectual governments in place, or we can try and put one in place that we believe will be good for the people and free from corruption for the longest time possible. Even if it is inevitable that our system will eventually become corrupt, it is better to have a time without it under our plan, than to have it constantly under the current system. ....Then, if (when) our government is no longer for the people, the people can change it. Just as we are changing this government they will be able to change ours. The entire point of this organisation is for the welfare of all people. So obviously public needs will be playing a major part in our policy. A large part of the public need is to be able to change the entire governing system if it becomes corrupt or no longer functions in their favour. It would probably be best if we stuck to one topic at a time here.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:09 am
black plastic love's post plays well into my whole ideal that the people are the source of our power, we are answerable to them should anything occur. Yet the general public cannot be entirely trusted to make educated decisions on even who to elect to government, yet we need them there to check our power to ensure that we are not violating their rights and that we are efficiently passing legislation and efficiently spending money.
One option would be to limit the general publics access to the vote, thus ensuring that only the most educated decisions are being made; yet this option could easily develop discrimination and eventually turn into the whole idea of a caste system where we are separated into separate classes much like a pyramid with the less mentally capable members at the bottom and possibly corrupt officials towards the top. Many would say that this removes too much power from the people and too severely limits their right to check our power. I'm inclined to agree with this, thus I would not believe this option is a good one.
Another option would be to refine the process of nominating and electing government officials to encompass a broader range of knowledge, virtue, and efficiency. This would ensure that our government officials are well capable for the position and also less susceptible to the dangers of corruption. However, even this plan has cracks and an intelligent yet malign candidate could fool the whole process and become elected. This is where the power of the people and the peers comes in. If that member commits any act which could be considered tyrranical the people and other members of the government structure would have the power to remove that candidate. Again however, a dominating and malign party could rule this governmental structure (although unlikely due to the strict process) and vote out all those who are in fact good-natured and well-behaved. In this case the whole power to oust the malign party would be left in the hands of the people whereupon they mention the misdoings to a higher authority for their discression or (if there is none) the people of the world would have to either overthrow the government (which of course would be the end of our grand plan) or simply throw out the bad members and start with more ideologically pure candidates, which of course would be the most ideal situation.
Obviously, I am a stronger supporter of option #2. But it wouldn't be easy to keep this balance, we must have conflictiing/checking forces to ensure that no malign member/party gains power. This would require constant surveillance of every member in every division of the government.
My grand plan for government structure to come. And yes, as you must have observed by now, reading my posts, while insightful and educational, requires a level of patience. Please bear with me.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:36 am
Of course there is the choice to reform the educational system. To change it in such a way that people can learn about the political system, and how it can be used to everyone's advantage. As well as how the most beneficial form of government for them as an individual is one that is best for all people. They also have the option of not taking this course, and end up with less power to influence political workings.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:41 am
True, but even then the class isn't a 100% sure way to make sure that they are making an educated decision, even with good grades. Every single person in my AP Government class was completely unaware of the fact that there were 74 candidates running in the last presidential election, until recently they didn't even know that the Democratic and Republican parties are little more than factions organized for power in government, a thing which Madison himself argued against in Federalist 10, but saw their eternal qualities in that they'd never go away and demonstrated how they could be incorporated into government. Some didn't even know who David Cobb or Ralph Nader were. How sad; especially for the fact that they are "college level" students with demonstrated accomplishments and merit.
It's a good method to bring out the best of the people of our society and to educate them on the workings of how government should work, and extended courses should be provided for those who wish to excel in this area. I do not think we can rely on this option to ensure good-natured candidates, but it would greatly increase the rate at which people are making educated decisions. Perhaps if we incorporated this idea into the other option (regarding making the process to run for an office more difficult) it would work best.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:15 am
Sobek1337 Perhaps if we incorporated this idea into the other option (regarding making the process to run for an office more difficult) it would work best. This is why I did not present it as an alternative third option. Although, I would consider most of the problems you have described to be part of the educational system (Current systems are rarely good examples of how things would work if they were set up properly) . If it were correctly implemented the course I suggested would have to teach people as unbiased a view as possible. It would also have to be comprehensive. So as to include sociology and psychology, as well as political mechanics. Rather than just the the basic information required to keep the current government in it's place.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:09 pm
Agreeing with fish_bait's statement, I must ask: WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT? You say "I will protect it". Do you realize that you cannot? You are one, and we are many. Join us, that is the wise thing. Unless: Do you mean you want to be in charge of natural resources? As in, "Let one side be your empire, then switch to the other and destroy that, by the time you're done, the original side will heal!" Because that idea won't work. It takes a very long time for an ecosystem to regenerate to it's state before human destruction. (your spelling is atrocious and your name is a rip off of optimus prime the transformer. Grrr.)
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:14 pm
fish_bait atomisk prime fish_bait atomisk prime if you succeed i will alow you to do with what ever you like with the world...exept you will leave the west hemispere. to inshuere recources of the world, you will all live on the east side of the earth. that is all the space i will alow your organizaition. i will make a treaty with dark star, i will no interfear with your plan, in return you will grant the western side of the earth back to the earth. meaning you will evacuaite all citys into hte eastern hemisphere. you also may think why? what can you possibly do? and why should we leave all that land and recorces? the ansure is because in orter to take you must give...with out that rule you will deplete the world of its resorces, and it will be mass death...but if you manage to live off the east, then when you deplete its resorces you can move to the west, then let the east side recover, and keep on moveing forards. also if you do noyt exapt, i will be forced to protect it by any means neccisary. look you dont seem to understand that you are the indvidual. The individual will be crushed they always are. as for leaving you the western hemishpere...dear god your more delusional than us read you own idea and think second its complete ridiculus think again and come up with somthing better. Oh yes and remeber that the individual is always crushed between power and the people. never underesimiate the power of one man!!! especaly because you have no idea who i am lol and it wont be an empire, it will belong to the earth. and iv decited that you will not move the the west side of the earth, because now i dont need your lowsy plan lol i have found it! i have found out how to do it!!! to make a world fee of wars, curruption, and polution!!! and i need none of you to complete it...so fish bait, in the futre when you see what iv completed, think again about what one man can do!!!... I will look toowrds it and if you truly succed where you claim we will fail I will tip my hat to you until then you earn nothing more than a nod for your consitency. But I would still like it if you would point out some of the specific flaws in our plan.... the flaws in your plan dont matter anymore, it is what i will do...i will enginere an e-bomb (destroys allelectronics in a sertain area permenently) that efect the whole world!!! the best solutions are always the easyest xp
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:04 pm
atomisk prime and Fish_bait Hm. I had no idea you could do that. Destroy all electronics so you want to send the world back to the middle ages?(sounds like you've been watching too much scifi/anime) Electronics are nessecary. Of course, it would solve the problem of overpopulation. . . But if you want to kill people by lack of proper care, doesn't that make you evil? Making us good, again?
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:42 am
Ladyfriend Deviant Education and communication seem ,to me atleast, to be the cornerstones of our plans, and infact the worlds, success. But these are difficult to change given all the legacy training/education that weighs down our current system (some schools are still teaching 50's style science! lies-to-children!) and the obvious lack of support including funds and infrastructure. Communication will be slightly easier. All it really takes is time and money (oh, did I say it would be easier? blaugh ) to set up a decent worldwide communications network (and this might get done for us what with the recent improvements in mobile-telecommunication technology). Personally I would want us to totally redesign the entire educational system. Not just making minor changes here and there in the hopes that they will add up and nudge it in the right direct. But instead the current system should effectively be scrapped. Then started again with very careful examination oh what would make the best educational environments, and what it is that people should be learning. but you're still going to have to deal with people who've already been educated having an outdated education, and if I mention re-education eveyone thinks I'm talking about concentration camps stressed
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:01 am
Deviant atomisk prime Zorya atomisk prime and Fish_bait Hm. I had no idea you could do that. Destroy all electronics so you want to send the world back to the middle ages?(sounds like you've been watching too much scifi/anime) Electronics are nessecary. Of course, it would solve the problem of overpopulation. . . But if you want to kill people by lack of proper care, doesn't that make you evil? Making us good, again? the midle ages?we develepde electronics 150 years ago domokun and i dont care anbout them, thoese who depend opon for electronics and are inocent, im sorry. but most ppl in the world are not inocent! they are harmful to the earth and each other! they are mean, crule and unkind twords each other, often cheating others or hurting them. there is no sympothy in my soul for all of you damn humans. best specis on the earth, bah! all of you humans should be eradicated, with the exeption of some...i will build it, and activate it, and it will be the best thing to hapen to this world since its formaition. (you cant deniy that fact) and you will all have to deal without your luxurys that you take for granit!!! Humans are great, actually. the overwhelming majority are decent people who would'nt hurt a fly, not the evil monsters that you assume our beloved species is comprised of. then i guss those ppl ruind it for the rest of you, eh? you humans are all alke, ignorent and wateful!!! so i will activate it without sympothy for any of you!!!
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:31 am
Sobek1337 ....... O_o o_o o_O ......You know.... I really hate to say this... but Atomisk... you really need to grab reality by the balls and come to terms with it... An e-bomb that will eliminate all electric activity permanently? Impossible, the closest thing you could ever come up with is an enormous version of an EMP wave, and all that does is interrupt electrical waves and fry any sort of hardware in the area. If you could come up with a continuous EMP wave then anything entering that area would face very dire medical consequences and the amount of energy needed to maintain the field would be phenomonal, thus destroying your whole idea of protected the earth. Also, EMP waves have little to no effect on the ever so gasoline guzzling cars which pollute our world so much, only certain things in them actually use electricity. Obviously, electronics aren't necessary, we've done fine without them before and some places still do a good job today, but with electronics we are capable of much more. Also, you're speaking about the human race as though you're not one of them. Surely you don't think yourself exempt from your own accusations, do you? Ignorant and wasteful? Very few nations in this world can truthfully confess to being wasteful; America, Canada, and a few of the European nations amongst them. Have you ever known true hunger? Do you know what it's like to watch those you love starve to death? Have you even met someone who has? Your lack of proper spelling and grammar, as well as other factors, demonstrates your own ignorance. We're working to ensure that those citizens of other nations do have a roof over their heads, food on their tables, and free education for all. At the same time we will work on resource efficiency programs in first-world nations. Simply, what you propose is totalitarianism, in the very wrong sense. From what I have been able to gather you strive to take matters into your own hands for what you believe is right while discrediting the majority of the human race as ignorant and wasteful. What you propose is simply wrong. The needs and opinions of other people must be heard in order to truly develop a peaceful world, literally millions would oppose what you work towards. Don't become the next Hitler, killing millions of innocent people in order to make the human race better. Exactly I would have said that except im bed with writing long posts. Totalitarianism reminds me so much of animal farm. Totalitariansim is almost impossible anyway it almost always becomes some form of tyranny. Absolute power coruptes everyone. Thats how most of the evil leaders like Stalin started. He and trosky (that may be speeled wrong)started together but the power went to stalins head and he banished and then killed trosky. So just stop argueing atomisk its like 30 to 1 here. There may be others that agree with you but not here. I mean evrything sobek said in his post I quoted is right. EMP's arn't continues so dont bother argueing
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:32 am
Sobek1337 Also, EMP waves have little to no effect on the ever so gasoline guzzling cars which pollute our world so much, only certain things in them actually use electricity. The current internal combustion engine is entirely dependant on eletricity. It is electricity that fires the spark plugs (or glow plugs ing diesels), which ignite the fuel, this forces the pistons to turn [what I believe is called] the drive shaft (although I'm probably wrong), which makes the wheels go round. So, yeh, the modern car pretty much needs electricity to move.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:07 am
Sobek1337 But the thing about internal combusting engines is that as soon as they get the initial burst of energy to start the engine they are self-sufficient and develop their own energy. Sure it's easier to have a battery do it for you, but I'm sure that a kickstart of some sort would do just as well. Of course, this whole thing wouldn't work too well if he ever developed the permanent e-bomb, but the chances of that are very unlikely. It still fundamentally relies on the electric spark from the spark plugs. Whether you kickstart it or not.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|