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ChibiDuo

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:52 am


Shani wants griphephtan
Laluna_Wulf
Shani if you read my post carefully you'll notice that I did admit to being a little biased.

You may have admitted it then, but before you had said you weren't biased.
I was simply restating what you had already said, to put more emphasis on it. domokun


I'm surprised you can still be so attentive with all that griphephtan, Shani. Just lookit yer skin, you've gone and rotted away into a zombie from it domokun

Anyway, shouldn't we be talking about the "Gundam Wing" part of the topic and not the "unbiased" part 3nodding ?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:14 am


ChibiDuo
Shani wants griphephtan
Laluna_Wulf
Shani if you read my post carefully you'll notice that I did admit to being a little biased.

You may have admitted it then, but before you had said you weren't biased.
I was simply restating what you had already said, to put more emphasis on it. domokun


I'm surprised you can still be so attentive with all that griphephtan, Shani. Just lookit yer skin, you've gone and rotted away into a zombie from it domokun

Anyway, shouldn't we be talking about the "Gundam Wing" part of the topic and not the "unbiased" part 3nodding ?
*sigh* Perhaps the fact that I changed the title will end this futile argument?

Colonel Lady Une


Unmei_no_LaLuna

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:39 pm


Colonel Lady Une
ChibiDuo
Shani wants griphephtan
Laluna_Wulf
Shani if you read my post carefully you'll notice that I did admit to being a little biased.

You may have admitted it then, but before you had said you weren't biased.
I was simply restating what you had already said, to put more emphasis on it. domokun


I'm surprised you can still be so attentive with all that griphephtan, Shani. Just lookit yer skin, you've gone and rotted away into a zombie from it domokun

Anyway, shouldn't we be talking about the "Gundam Wing" part of the topic and not the "unbiased" part 3nodding ?
*sigh* Perhaps the fact that I changed the title will end this futile argument?


Resistance is Futile ::chews on Une's shoulder::

So how shall we pick apart and analyze this show hmmm?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:09 am


Perhaps we could begin with Episode Zero and work our way up to Preventer 5. Let's see. Wufei married Meiran as part of tradition then she died. What would have occured if she hadn't died?

Colonel Lady Une


Tenryu

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:34 pm


Colonel Lady Une
Perhaps we could begin with Episode Zero and work our way up to Preventer 5. Let's see. Wufei married Meiran as part of tradition then she died. What would have occured if she hadn't died?


then you lost a pilot with justice replaced by someone who just wants to live...

that and EW would probably ended a way lot faster(or even wouldn't even happen)

and i think if we wanted to analyse the show we should probably start with plot flaws and stuff... not what would happen if this didn't happen kind of stuff
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:27 pm


Tenryu
Colonel Lady Une
Perhaps we could begin with Episode Zero and work our way up to Preventer 5. Let's see. Wufei married Meiran as part of tradition then she died. What would have occured if she hadn't died?


then you lost a pilot with justice replaced by someone who just wants to live...

that and EW would probably ended a way lot faster(or even wouldn't even happen)

and i think if we wanted to analyse the show we should probably start with plot flaws and stuff... not what would happen if this didn't happen kind of stuff
All right then... Plot flaws... Hm... What is your view on the lack of development within the romantic relationships in the series?

Colonel Lady Une


Tenryu

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:55 am


my view on the lack of developments of relationships in the series?

it was there to make people want to know who ends up with who thus making them watching the whole thing just for it...

i also think that its there just because you can't have a anime series without a little relationships in it...

but of course why would any one want to be with Heero that much is beyond me...

and then theres seem to be a lot of fighting scene... thats probably why the relationships weren't developed...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:43 am


in some ways g-wing is more realistic than Seed. I have seen pieces of 0080 and Seed. I still think G-wing is better

Gundamgirl861


Ophiuchus
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:00 am


Gundamgirl861
in some ways g-wing is more realistic than Seed. I have seen pieces of 0080 and Seed. I still think G-wing is better
please remember to back up your opinions with facts so not to get smashed into the flooring by people with other opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:07 pm


Gundamgirl861
in some ways g-wing is more realistic than Seed. I have seen pieces of 0080 and Seed. I still think G-wing is better

Guy surviving a reactor explosion in space while wearing no normal suit=/=realistic.
Guy standing on the freaking cockpit hatch as he self-destructs, then survives=/=realistic.
The peace million coming on out of nowhere, with no explanation=/=realistic.
Guy jumping down out of a hospital window, barely opening his parachute, rolling down along jagged rocks, etc, then getting up and walking away after popping his ankle back in=/=realistic.
So many leo pilots having absolutely no skill=/=realistic.
I could probably go on, if I put my mind to it.

Stray Bullet Shani


NewtypeS3

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:51 am


I dunno, I thought that the manga was rather... weak... compared to the TV show.

Granted, many of the things were explained in the manga - but you also have to realize that (with the exception of Ground Zero and the manga editions of Wing and Endless Waltz), all of the mangas for Wing are also canonical.

G-Unit / Last Outpost is written by Tokita, god of Gundam manga. It's 100% official.
Episode Zero is written by a member of the Wing staff, and though the mecha aren't quite right, it's 100% canon.
Battlefield of Pacifists is the 100% official 'in between' for Wing and Endless Waltz.
Heck, even the manga adapted from the radio show (Blind Target) is official.

So, when it comes down to Wing TV and Wing manga... I've gotta say Wing TV.

Granted, the manga makes more sense when it comes to Zechs' reasonings for wanting to create war with Earth... but one also has to consider that the second half of Wing had an entirely different director - who was also busy creating Gundam X at the same time.
That easily had some impact on the storyline, I'm willing to bet.

And when it comes down to the final moments... I'm gonna take TV's 'Wing Zero dives into the atmosphere and blows s**t up' over the manga's 'Super Robot Powers combine! Shoot!' ending.
Especially because the manga follows the Wing novel ending, and has the boys heading out to Mars to help with the Terraforming... something that obviously doesn't happen because of what happens with Endless Waltz and BoP happening.

That, and the manga really drops a lot of the characterization down the toilet when it comes to a lot of the mains.

I still own both versions, and I go back to them every once in a while... but I do prefer the animation over the manga simply because it makes more sense to me in the first place.

But, hey, I'm me and you're you. We have differing opinions. biggrin

---

Oh, and Shani? Quit the crap with the 'Wing Fans don't reason' train of thought. We obviously do reason... Please, just stop.
And NONE of Gundam is realistic, if you really wanna get into it.

And Lady Une's not the only 'Winger' who can maintain intelligent conversations... I know of a few others... twisted
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:50 am


did you know, G-Unit is actually in the same Universe as Gundam Wing....
White Fang is in it....

Vivio1412


Stray Bullet Shani

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:25 am


NewtypeS3
Oh, and Shani? Quit the crap with the 'Wing Fans don't reason' train of thought. We obviously do reason... Please, just stop.

Show me your reason, then. Tackle some of the issues brought up in the post directly preceding your own.
NewtypeS3
And NONE of Gundam is realistic, if you really wanna get into it.

Because everything is totally black and white; there are no possible degrees of how "realistic" or "unrealistic" something is.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:26 pm


First off, yeah I know that G-Unit is an official side-story. 'Tis why I listed it.

Stray Bullet Shani
Gundamgirl861
in some ways g-wing is more realistic than Seed. I have seen pieces of 0080 and Seed. I still think G-wing is better

1) Guy surviving a reactor explosion in space while wearing no normal suit=/=realistic.
2) Guy standing on the freaking cockpit hatch as he self-destructs, then survives=/=realistic.
3) The peace million coming on out of nowhere, with no explanation=/=realistic.
4) Guy jumping down out of a hospital window, barely opening his parachute, rolling down along jagged rocks, etc, then getting up and walking away after popping his ankle back in=/=realistic.
5) So many leo pilots having absolutely no skill=/=realistic.
I could probably go on, if I put my mind to it.


1) I actually don't remember this happening - any space-based adventures generally had characters with the Wing equivalent of Normal Suits, the Astro Suit. Care to name the character, episode or anything so I can actually bother with this so-called 'fact?'

2) So, being hurled away from the cockpit... landing headfirst... losting most of one's blood... and being in a coma for a month as a result, and recovering for the next several weeks to another month... isn't realistic enough for you in a show that has gigantic humanoid robots running about in it?

3) The Peacemillion was explained in the Episode Zero manga - it was constructed by both Howard and old Mushroom head, Professor G; better known as the man who constructed Deathscythe.

4) First off, they weren't JAGGED rocks. Aside from that, sure it's unlikely - however, Heero's not setting his ankle. He's resetting the bone - his leg snapped, not the ankle. That's why he's using the wrench as a makeshift splint and attaching it to his leg with adhesive tape of some sort.
'Sides, Heero didn't actually walk away. If you paid attention, you'd see that Heero was leaning heavily on the unboken leg and actually accepted help from Duo (even leaning on the braided pilot)... going so far as to not even use his broken leg while they hobbled away.

5) Ahh... The Leo... One of Wing's most misunderstood points... Luckily, I happen to have something to counteract just about any point made against the Leo.

First off, it's importan to know that the Leo Mobile Suit is 20 years old, whereas those Gundams in Wing are brand new. Yeah, that's right. The Leo was made around the time of AC 175, not AC 195 when the show starts (For comparison, the Zaku I was a few years old as well - but the Zaku II is what was used majorly throughout the OYW. And the GINN seems rather new, really).

For a real world comparison that actually uses equivalent technology, we needn't look at the military, but at video games.
In 1985, The NES was released in the US.
In 2005, the Xbox 360 was released in the US.
20 years apart, and do you honestly think that the NES stands a chance against Microsoft's giant when comparing mechanical statistics?
No.

Same with the Leo.

Another thing of note is that the Leo was made for crowd control, not MS combat. The fact that the Leo doesn't move all that fast attests to that, as well as the fact that there is no backpack boosters on the Leo.

That's right - whereas the Zaku I and GINN had boosters built into the back pack, the Leo had none. Not even a 'backpack.'
What was there, you ask? An escape hatch (please, no jokes).
The closest thing that the Leo got was those 3 thrusters on it's skirt armour - and those don't fuly count because you need the Space Leo pack to control it in space and it's never used on the ground (Presumably because it can't provide the needed thrust to get off the ground).
Oddly enough, though, the Leos have better weaponry than those aforementioned suits.

See, the Zaku and GINN are both stuck with physical weaponry, which is near-useless against the Gundams of their time.
While the Leo DOES have that (the Leo Machinegun, a barely-shown bazooka and Dobergun, of course), it's also got beam weaponry: The Beam Pistol was used by Lady Une (and even on the Mercurius), and there was even a beam rifle that was considered standard equipment.
And let's not forget the Beam Cannon that was used in the early opening narration sequences (yet completely ignored in the animation) that can take out an escaping shuttle with a single shot.
Additional... There's actually another weapon worth noting. There's a Leo Commander type - seen only in episode 1. It has shoulder-mounted Beam Guns. This is actually an official variant to the Leo - and shoulder-mounted beam weaponry puts it heads above any similar competition.

Oh, and when the Zaku has a heated physical weapon (Heat Hawk) made to cleave and slice with some resistance, and the GINN had a sword made for crushing suits, the Leo itself has actual Beam Sabers.

Before I finish, it's also important to note that where ZAFT and the Zeon had to make different suits for different environments, the Leo has different packs to let it be used in those environments.
The Space Leo pack, of course, allows it to be used in space - and a booster pack (which looks a lot like the Jet pack in Seed Destiny) allows it to replace the Aries in the air.
Granted, there's no water-based pack, but the Cancer and Pices take care of that.

Finally, the Leos are able to go up against the Virgos and Tauruses of Wing.
That's like a Hi-Zack from Zeta going up against the Crossbone Vanguard's Den'an Zon (Beam weapons, Beam Shielding, ect...) and being able to survive.

I think that the apropriate phrase is....

"Next?"

NewtypeS3


NewtypeS3

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:10 pm


Making this one a second post...

Stray Bullet Shani
NewtypeS3
And NONE of Gundam is realistic, if you really wanna get into it.

Because everything is totally black and white; there are no possible degrees of how "realistic" or "unrealistic" something is.


Ok, sure. Thanks for your overly sarcastic input, oh lord of this guild.

But...

Care to explain the Minovski Particle? If Gundam is realistic to you, then explain how a bunch of Helium-3 can block pretty much everything required in the current battlefield - from radar right down to radio waves.

Or what about the fesability of a Mobile Suit in the first place? I seem to recall a topic about that on this very board...

http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=1231926

...which pretty much states that MS are pretty much not fesable in the real world.

Hell, newtypes. NEWTYPES. I'm not against the idea of 'human evolution' as presented in Gundam... much less the way they're presented in Gundam X... but is there a way you can explain the mumbo-jumbo that Newtypes have done in a realistic sense without going generally insane?

So, yeah, the three main bases of the UC universe - Mobile Suits, The M-Particle, and Newtypes - are pretty damn unrealistic.

Does that mean we'll never see them? No.

But it does mean that things are gonna have to change drastically soon if we are in any of our lifetimes.

---

Of course, that was avoiding plot points in Gundam.

For one, in the original Mobile Suit Gundam, Amuro pilots the Gundam. It's well-known, of course, that he was a civilian - and the son of the designer. Now, the Gundam is a military project - and is top-secret.
The fact that Amuro is able to leap into the Gundam with the manual, flip through the manual, and then take down 2 mobile suits isn't exactly realistic. Sure, the first Zaku wasn't a good kill - but the second one required a precision stab through the cockpit of the Zaku.

And, later on, Amuro is kept on as the pilot of the Gundam - when there's Ryu right nearby, who is an actual pilot assigned to the White Base.
What gets even worse is that Amuro isn't relieved of his duties as pilot even after the White Base reaches Luna 2 - where many, many pilots were at who could have taken Amuro's place.

This isn't even mentioning Bright's akward obscession with Judau in ZZ, Amuro's constant paranoia (which turns into reality, strangely enough) throughout the UC, and many other points that I could dredge out against you.

Is Gundam not realistic?

I give them credit for slipping in things that Super Robot shows (of which Gundam took life from) never did - like having mains die...

However, claiming that Gundam IS realistic is also just plain avoiding the facts.
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Gundam

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