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 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:05 pm
If you don't take into account the possibility of inbreeding...
Though it would seem unusual, I really don't think there's anything wrong with it as such. I mean I'd think some problems may arise with viewing someone both as a sibling and a lover, but that's for those people to make their choice.
If you're already dating someone, and they turn out to be related to you, I really don't see what the big problem is. I mean, sure, children are a bad idea... but a relationship is about more than that.
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:48 pm
yami_shinyi I wonder why genetic counseling is never discussed in these threads. With a visit to the doctor, any couple can assess the risk/probabilities of hazardous genetic mutations and plan accordingly. Personally incestuous relations are not for me as I'm not too close to my family... but begrudging it of someone else would be silly.
The major problem with that, is that in the US Incest between anyone closer than cousins is illegal. It is illegal even with first cousins in some states.
So they really can't get genetic counseling. Not without lying.
Also, I 100% not against incest. No matter who the couple is.
I have some qualms about Parent/Child relationships, because for some there could be influential problems that effect the child. He or She may have the feeling that they have to oblige the parent because it is her parent. Which could arise many psychological problems with the child. Which wouldn't be the parents fault.
Of course that situation could happen in any given relationship, not just a parent/child relationship. So I see no reason for that type of relationship to be banned for that reason.
So, I'm all for it. Hell, I don't care if you want to tell me about it. In fact I'd love to hear about it. The same way I love for me non-incestuous friends to tell me about their loves. Because I enjoy seeing them happy.
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:42 pm
There's a lot of agreement here. Go liberal ethics!
Just as everyone is saying, I don't have any moral issues with incestuous relationships with the allowance that the chance of creating a child that will suffer from genetic abnormality is minimised or negated.
My approach to sex ethics is the ever-popular principle of voluntary informed consent as being central to sex and relationships. As long as both parties are fully informed , and there is no form of coercion taking place, it is morally permissable. (***** relationships are ruled out because a child can never be fully informed...)
Voluntary informed consent is quite a strong basis for safeguarding people's moral rights, but it can be strengthened even further when combined with a rule of demonstrating respect for the dignity of others, such as Kant's second formulation of the Categorical Imperative.
This kind of approach does allow for necrophilia to be moral, though, as long as the deceased as agreed to that use of their corpse... some might not wish to be inclusive of that in their moral code. ^_^
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:20 pm
Heterodyne There's a lot of agreement here. Go liberal ethics! Just as everyone is saying, I don't have any moral issues with incestuous relationships with the allowance that the chance of creating a child that will suffer from genetic abnormality is minimised or negated. My approach to sex ethics is the ever-popular principle of voluntary informed consent as being central to sex and relationships. As long as both parties are fully informed , and there is no form of coercion taking place, it is morally permissable. (***** relationships are ruled out because a child can never be fully informed...)Voluntary informed consent is quite a strong basis for safeguarding people's moral rights, but it can be strengthened even further when combined with a rule of demonstrating respect for the dignity of others, such as Kant's second formulation of the Categorical Imperative. This kind of approach does allow for necrophilia to be moral, though, as long as the deceased as agreed to that use of their corpse... some might not wish to be inclusive of that in their moral code. ^_^
*Barely resisting the urge to turn this into a ***** debate*
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:32 pm
Um well...Understand I'm a very open minded person, but I just can't understand the concept of closely related couples. I don't have any siblings and all my cousins live far away from me, so I guess that influences my oppinion, but I never really liked people that were related having relationships.
It's the persons choices, as long as they don't tell me about it or try to make me try it or anything. So...you can talk to me about anything, just don't talk to me about relationships within the family...
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:04 pm
Heterodyne There's a lot of agreement here. Go liberal ethics! Just as everyone is saying, I don't have any moral issues with incestuous relationships with the allowance that the chance of creating a child that will suffer from genetic abnormality is minimised or negated. My approach to sex ethics is the ever-popular principle of voluntary informed consent as being central to sex and relationships. As long as both parties are fully informed , and there is no form of coercion taking place, it is morally permissable. (***** relationships are ruled out because a child can never be fully informed...)Let's not turn this into a ***** debate, please ^_~
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:15 am
I personally don't care what goes on behind other's closed doors.. I'm not sure if I approve of parent/child relationships just because it raises questions of past abuse, but for brothers/sisters it's far more likely to have sprung out mutually. And a mutual desire for the relationship to me is what matters most.
In a few states it's not illegal to marry your cousin-- I know a girl who married her cousin and they did a ton of research. Cousins who marry have only a slightly elevated probability of birth defects.. So I never understood what was so terrible.
I feel pretty bad for people who are related and fall in love. When the girl I know married her cousin she went through hell and highwater for it, it didn't even matter to people that they didn't even know they were cousins until after the first time they had sex. They were already in love-- and what, they were supposed to break their bond because society says "That's weird?" I admire people who can make it work.
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:11 pm
Minozake Heterodyne Just as everyone is saying, I don't have any moral issues with incestuous relationships with the allowance that the chance of creating a child that will suffer from genetic abnormality is minimised or negated. My approach to sex ethics is the ever-popular principle of voluntary informed consent as being central to sex and relationships. As long as both parties are fully informed , and there is no form of coercion taking place, it is morally permissable. (***** relationships are ruled out because a child can never be fully informed...)Let's not turn this into a ***** debate, please ^_~ Honestly, I talk about contractarian ethics moderated with Kantian respect for persons, and an incidental phrase gets all the focus... xd I'm a little too used to having to cover a spectrum of sexual deviation in writing essays. Now for a phrase I never thought I would have to type: please ignore the presence of the word '*****/> sweatdrop Continuing with the idea of incest, however, gradations of ethical standards are interesting. I'm going to throw out some questions. Consider these cases: Accept for the purpose of argument that there is no chance of genetic defects in the children, and that all relationships are founded on mutual informed consent. 1 - Adult step-siblings (not blood related) fall in love, relationship ensues 2 - Adult half-siblings fall in love, relationship ensues 3 - Adult siblings fall in love, relationship ensues From what has been posted above, few would find anything morally at fault with such scenarios, apart from perhaps the psychological implications for the children, incest still largely being a taboo issue in society. 4 - A parent falls in love with their adopted adult son/daughter, relationship ensues 5 - A parent meets an adult son/daughter they never knew existed, they mutually fall in love, relationship ensues... I think the main basis on which parent/child incest is found more morally dubious than sibling incest is the possible abuse of the trust and responsibility entailed in the parental duty to their child. What if, however, as in case 5, there never existed the bond between a parent and a child, and that relationship is a mere biological fact, rather than a complex emotional one? If someone accepts incest between siblings as permissble, then surely, incest where the parent and child are strangers is permissable from this moral outlook too. It is simply a closer extention of the kind of situation described by Lady Adriata above. If the case did arise that genetic screening was able to erase the possibility of genetic defects in children born from close-blooded relationships, we might arrive at a situation where it is difficult to prohibit anything simply on the grounds of biology.
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:05 am
I've never felt any romantic love towards a family member not even a distant one. I think that is because I just dont have the mindset to see them that way I think. However essentially any relationship between two consenting adult is solely their business. The reason I would not want a relationship with a family member is because to me family relationships are safe, sacred, and ever present. They are unmarred by jelousy rage or bitterness. When you have a romantic relationship you risk those feelings and risk severing your relationships with people who you should essentially always be able to have as a support structure.
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:05 am
I'll Pray to the Gods Let Him Stay...I have no problems with scenario 5.
Because they didn't know, it takes away the chance of an abuse of power, intentional, or unintentional.
Also, I have no problems with the biological factor. There is already only a slight chance of problems.
And a relationship isn't founded on children.[Give Artemis A Ten?]
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:39 am
I don't think it's entirely wrong, but I wouldn't encourage it or do it myself....eek! *shivers*
But I do think people are strong enough to hold themselves back. I'm sure it creates more problems than it's worth for anyone.
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:29 pm
Caghyre I don't think it's entirely wrong, but I wouldn't encourage it or do it myself....eek! *shivers* But I do think people are strong enough to hold themselves back. I'm sure it creates more problems than it's worth for anyone.I'll Pray to the Gods Let Him Stay...
Emotionally? So does Homosexuality. Would you suggest they hold bak their love because of it?[Give Artemis A Ten?]
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:24 am
Isthene Caghyre I don't think it's entirely wrong, but I wouldn't encourage it or do it myself....eek! *shivers* But I do think people are strong enough to hold themselves back. I'm sure it creates more problems than it's worth for anyone.I'll Pray to the Gods Let Him Stay...
Emotionally? So does Homosexuality. Would you suggest they hold bak their love because of it?[Give Artemis A Ten?] There are no credible studies that can show that Homosexual couples have less stable families than Heterosexual couples. And Homosexual couples who accept their Homosexuality have the same emotional problems that any Heterosexual couple would have. Why would you think they would be different just because they lack one of the sexes?
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:37 am
Huffon Halfmorph Isthene Caghyre I don't think it's entirely wrong, but I wouldn't encourage it or do it myself....eek! *shivers* But I do think people are strong enough to hold themselves back. I'm sure it creates more problems than it's worth for anyone.I'll Pray to the Gods Let Him Stay...
Emotionally? So does Homosexuality. Would you suggest they hold bak their love because of it?[Give Artemis A Ten?] There are no credible studies that can show that Homosexual couples have less stable families than Heterosexual couples. And Homosexual couples who accept their Homosexuality have the same emotional problems that any Heterosexual couple would have. Why would you think they would be different just because they lack one of the sexes? I'll Pray to the Gods Let Him Stay...
I'm talking about the emotional pain from social stigma.
Are you saying homosexuals don't feel pain when they are disowned from their families?
That is a pain most heterosexuals don't have to fear/feel. That couples of sexual minorities do.
Should Homosexuals not date the same sex because they will feel that emotional pain?[Give Artemis A Ten?]
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:34 am
Isthene Huffon Halfmorph Isthene Caghyre I don't think it's entirely wrong, but I wouldn't encourage it or do it myself....eek! *shivers* But I do think people are strong enough to hold themselves back. I'm sure it creates more problems than it's worth for anyone.I'll Pray to the Gods Let Him Stay...
Emotionally? So does Homosexuality. Would you suggest they hold bak their love because of it?[Give Artemis A Ten?] There are no credible studies that can show that Homosexual couples have less stable families than Heterosexual couples. And Homosexual couples who accept their Homosexuality have the same emotional problems that any Heterosexual couple would have. Why would you think they would be different just because they lack one of the sexes? I'll Pray to the Gods Let Him Stay...
I'm talking about the emotional pain from social stigma.
Are you saying homosexuals don't feel pain when they are disowned from their families?
That is a pain most heterosexuals don't have to fear/feel. That couples of sexual minorities do.
Should Homosexuals not date the same sex because they will feel that emotional pain?[Give Artemis A Ten?] I don't believe in that "one right person" crap. I think you can make any relationship work if you learn to understand each other and you can love one person just as much as another. thus... I think in might be painful to stop incest due to the love of the person, but you can find another that you love just as much and save all the problems. PS. this is not about homosexuality, if your going to discuss that, please take it elsewhere.
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