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 Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:55 pm
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar Fushigi na Butterfly In the case of a woman's career depending on her not having a scar (such as modeling) there are still ways around that. Photo editing. If she were working for the CIA ... somehow, I don't think someone working for the CIA would be walking around with their midriff bared, but who knows. If she doesn't want a scar, then that is terribly sad that a woman would prefer to kill her baby than omgblemishherperfectskinohnoes. stare
Abortion also screws with the inner parts of a woman's reproductive system. When you stick sharp metal implements and vacuums into a woman's v****a things are going to get scraped, bumped, shifted, and who knows what else. Birth is at least natural and the body is equipped to deal with those changes. Tell me: If you were in charge of a modelling agency, would you pick the girl with the flawless skin or the girl with a scar? Sure, there are ways around it, but given an option people generally prefer to avoid big stuff like that. Most modeling (except for porn) doesn't expose that part. modeling's not that hard of a career. Hell, I could do it! What do you do? Put on cool clothes, walk down the catwalk (don't walk off), spin around, walk back. Rinse and Repeat. Then why aren't you a model? They pay really well. Could it have something to do with the fact that your body doesn't fit their quota? *Gasp!* A modeling career might just have something to do with your body! Does that mean blemishes significantly decrease your chances of making a profession out of it? The answer is yes. First, I'm not 18 yet. Second, I don't really care to. Quote: Quote: Quote: It's not killing a baby; it's killing a fetus. And when an abortion is done properly by trained medical personnel nothing will be damaged. If something is damaged, you can bring a civil suite against them. Baby, fetus, it's still alive and technically human. Sure nothing will be damaged - except the partly developed baby still inside of you. Quote: Point is: Birth is a very undesirable process if it was not asked for. undesirable process? You are bringing a new person, complete with thoughts, feelings, and a soul, into the world. You're also going through 9 months of Hell, then torturing yourself for several hours/a day or two, with the chance of permanent damage to your body. 9 months of hell, i agree. torturing yourself? That's an extreme way to describe it. With the VERY SMALL chance of permanent damage to your body. If giving birth is so obviously horrible, why would anybody do it? *gasp* maybe it's because the gain outweighs the loss! Although that is something that the mother will have to determine. Quote: Quote: I can see why someone wouldn't want to deal with the pain, but if you didn't want the baby, why have sex in the first place? Um...Because it feels good? Because it's nature? Because it's an incredibly beautiful act of love, and perhaps the ultimate expression of that love? Or you could've been raped, I suppose. There are plenty of reasons to have sex without wanting a baby. That's why they invented condoms and birth control pills. Sorry, I meant un-protected sex. If you were raped, give the baby up for adoption. keep it, or put it in a foster home.
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:34 am
You two are arguing in circles, I believe. neutral
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:36 am
Meh, we'll keep doing it untill either we get bored, we see that it's pointless, or one of us concedes. It's mostly to pass the time.
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:10 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar Fushigi na Butterfly In the case of a woman's career depending on her not having a scar (such as modeling) there are still ways around that. Photo editing. If she were working for the CIA ... somehow, I don't think someone working for the CIA would be walking around with their midriff bared, but who knows. If she doesn't want a scar, then that is terribly sad that a woman would prefer to kill her baby than omgblemishherperfectskinohnoes. stare
Abortion also screws with the inner parts of a woman's reproductive system. When you stick sharp metal implements and vacuums into a woman's v****a things are going to get scraped, bumped, shifted, and who knows what else. Birth is at least natural and the body is equipped to deal with those changes. Tell me: If you were in charge of a modelling agency, would you pick the girl with the flawless skin or the girl with a scar? Sure, there are ways around it, but given an option people generally prefer to avoid big stuff like that. Most modeling (except for porn) doesn't expose that part. modeling's not that hard of a career. Hell, I could do it! What do you do? Put on cool clothes, walk down the catwalk (don't walk off), spin around, walk back. Rinse and Repeat. Then why aren't you a model? They pay really well. Could it have something to do with the fact that your body doesn't fit their quota? *Gasp!* A modeling career might just have something to do with your body! Does that mean blemishes significantly decrease your chances of making a profession out of it? The answer is yes. First, I'm not 18 yet. Not a requirement at all. wink Quote: Second, I don't really care to. Again, you missed the point. stare Quote: Quote: Quote: It's not killing a baby; it's killing a fetus. And when an abortion is done properly by trained medical personnel nothing will be damaged. If something is damaged, you can bring a civil suite against them. Baby, fetus, it's still alive and technically human. Sure nothing will be damaged - except the partly developed baby still inside of you. Eh...Again, I really don't have an opinion either way. I'm just arguing for abortion because I'm bored and no one else was. Whether a fetus is a live human or not is debatable and brings forth some interesting legal questions. For instance, if a fetus is indeed human, then said mother has every right to bring charges against it for assault, doesn't she? I mean, it's harming her, isn't it? Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Point is: Birth is a very undesirable process if it was not asked for. undesirable process? You are bringing a new person, complete with thoughts, feelings, and a soul, into the world. You're also going through 9 months of Hell, then torturing yourself for several hours/a day or two, with the chance of permanent damage to your body. 9 months of hell, i agree. torturing yourself? That's an extreme way to describe it. I'm just going off of what I've been told. Giving birth is extremely painful. Quote: With the VERY SMALL chance of permanent damage to your body. Not really that small. Quote: If giving birth is so obviously horrible, why would anybody do it? *gasp* maybe it's because the gain outweighs the loss! Although that is something that the mother will have to determine. Exactly. I'm not saying giving birth is bad. I'm saying giving birth when you have no desire for a child is bad. Quote: Quote: Quote: I can see why someone wouldn't want to deal with the pain, but if you didn't want the baby, why have sex in the first place? Um...Because it feels good? Because it's nature? Because it's an incredibly beautiful act of love, and perhaps the ultimate expression of that love? Or you could've been raped, I suppose. There are plenty of reasons to have sex without wanting a baby. That's why they invented condoms and birth control pills. Sorry, I meant un-protected sex. Accident, usually. Quote: If you were raped, give the baby up for adoption. keep it, or put it in a foster home. Why would you go through 9 months of Hell and the pain of giving birth just to give birth to the child of a man who's probably in your nightmares and causing you enough psychological harm anyway?
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:31 pm
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar Tell me: If you were in charge of a modelling agency, would you pick the girl with the flawless skin or the girl with a scar? Sure, there are ways around it, but given an option people generally prefer to avoid big stuff like that. Most modeling (except for porn) doesn't expose that part. modeling's not that hard of a career. Hell, I could do it! What do you do? Put on cool clothes, walk down the catwalk (don't walk off), spin around, walk back. Rinse and Repeat. Then why aren't you a model? They pay really well. Could it have something to do with the fact that your body doesn't fit their quota? *Gasp!* A modeling career might just have something to do with your body! Does that mean blemishes significantly decrease your chances of making a profession out of it? The answer is yes. First, I'm not 18 yet. Not a requirement at all. wink I'm only thirteen. Quote: Quote: Second, I don't really care to. Again, you missed the point. stare I don't have blemishes. Anyways, I could just get plastic surgery. Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: It's not killing a baby; it's killing a fetus. And when an abortion is done properly by trained medical personnel nothing will be damaged. If something is damaged, you can bring a civil suite against them. Baby, fetus, it's still alive and technically human. Sure nothing will be damaged - except the partly developed baby still inside of you. Eh...Again, I really don't have an opinion either way. I'm just arguing for abortion because I'm bored and no one else was. Whether a fetus is a live human or not is debatable and brings forth some interesting legal questions. For instance, if a fetus is indeed human, then said mother has every right to bring charges against it for assault, doesn't she? I mean, it's harming her, isn't it? First, why would anybody in their right mind want to bring assult charges against their fetus inside themselves? Second, how could you possibly punish a fetus that is inside you? Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Point is: Birth is a very undesirable process if it was not asked for. undesirable process? You are bringing a new person, complete with thoughts, feelings, and a soul, into the world. You're also going through 9 months of Hell, then torturing yourself for several hours/a day or two, with the chance of permanent damage to your body. 9 months of hell, i agree. torturing yourself? That's an extreme way to describe it. I'm just going off of what I've been told. Giving birth is extremely painful. Conceded. Quote: Quote: With the VERY SMALL chance of permanent damage to your body. Not really that small. Give me a percentage then. Quote: Quote: If giving birth is so obviously horrible, why would anybody do it? *gasp* maybe it's because the gain outweighs the loss! Although that is something that the mother will have to determine. Exactly. I'm not saying giving birth is bad. I'm saying giving birth when you have no desire for a child is bad. Give the child up then. Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: I can see why someone wouldn't want to deal with the pain, but if you didn't want the baby, why have sex in the first place? Um...Because it feels good? Because it's nature? Because it's an incredibly beautiful act of love, and perhaps the ultimate expression of that love? Or you could've been raped, I suppose. There are plenty of reasons to have sex without wanting a baby. That's why they invented condoms and birth control pills. Sorry, I meant un-protected sex. Accident, usually. Again, give it up. Quote: Quote: If you were raped, give the baby up for adoption. keep it, or put it in a foster home. Why would you go through 9 months of Hell and the pain of giving birth just to give birth to the child of a man who's probably in your nightmares and causing you enough psychological harm anyway? Better than killing the baby. It's called sacrifice.
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:19 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Most modeling (except for porn) doesn't expose that part. modeling's not that hard of a career. Hell, I could do it! What do you do? Put on cool clothes, walk down the catwalk (don't walk off), spin around, walk back. Rinse and Repeat. Then why aren't you a model? They pay really well. Could it have something to do with the fact that your body doesn't fit their quota? *Gasp!* A modeling career might just have something to do with your body! Does that mean blemishes significantly decrease your chances of making a profession out of it? The answer is yes. First, I'm not 18 yet. Not a requirement at all. wink I'm only thirteen. And there are a ton of models that are five. There is no age limit to modelling. Pornography, yes, but not modelling. Quote: Quote: Quote: Second, I don't really care to. Again, you missed the point. stare I don't have blemishes. Anyways, I could just get plastic surgery. But a woman who gave birth could. And plastic surgery is quite expensive. Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: It's not killing a baby; it's killing a fetus. And when an abortion is done properly by trained medical personnel nothing will be damaged. If something is damaged, you can bring a civil suite against them. Baby, fetus, it's still alive and technically human. Sure nothing will be damaged - except the partly developed baby still inside of you. Eh...Again, I really don't have an opinion either way. I'm just arguing for abortion because I'm bored and no one else was. Whether a fetus is a live human or not is debatable and brings forth some interesting legal questions. For instance, if a fetus is indeed human, then said mother has every right to bring charges against it for assault, doesn't she? I mean, it's harming her, isn't it? First, why would anybody in their right mind want to bring assult charges against their fetus inside themselves? Because it's hurting them and it's human. Quote: Second, how could you possibly punish a fetus that is inside you? Abort it and put it in juvi. xd Quote: Quote: Quote: With the VERY SMALL chance of permanent damage to your body. Not really that small. Give me a percentage then. 40-50%, I guess. Quote: Quote: Quote: If giving birth is so obviously horrible, why would anybody do it? *gasp* maybe it's because the gain outweighs the loss! Although that is something that the mother will have to determine. Exactly. I'm not saying giving birth is bad. I'm saying giving birth when you have no desire for a child is bad. Give the child up then. That would require giving birth to it, which as I have already said is quite undesirable. Quote: Quote: Quote: If you were raped, give the baby up for adoption. keep it, or put it in a foster home. Why would you go through 9 months of Hell and the pain of giving birth just to give birth to the child of a man who's probably in your nightmares and causing you enough psychological harm anyway? Better than killing the baby. Prove it. See? You can't. And I can't prove that it's not. That is the crux of the abortion debate.
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:32 am
Okay, I don't feel like quoting cuz there is alot to quote. First off, why should a woman have the choice to kill her baby because she doesn't want a scar that would hardly ever be seen?? Unless her career absolutely depends on it it's just selfish (it's selfish even if your career does depend on it). Technology is great; a scar can be easily removed on a computer from a picture; no harm done. I just have the hardest time forgiving a woman for getting an abortion because she values her own body- not even her whole body, but that particular part of her body- more than she values the life growing inside her. I hold the same sort of unfortunate grudge towards those women who are so obsessed with fitting into some crazy image of physical beauty that they starve themselves. Why don't we just stop caring what those women do too? If it's all the same. One woman wants the decision to do with her body as she wishes by getting an abortion because she won't like how she looks afterwards, whereas the other wants the decision to do with her body as she wishes by throwing up after every meal or by not eating at all because she doesn't like how she looks now. What's the difference? Let's let 'em all do what they want. I think it's sad that society cares more for bulimic and anorexic women than they do for those women who want to kill their baby. Or is it because the woman might die if she has an eating disorder? Forget all about the baby that dies as a result of abortion.
There is alot more room for forgiveness for those women who were raped because yes, the experience is traumatic and to have to live with the results forever would be hard, especially if the woman is not so easily healed as others might be. However, it's still a life. Why should one life be ruined because another had a very huge valley in it?? The physical pain is temporary, and plus there is the option for an epidural and then she doesn't feel anything. Yes, there's risks there too (nerve damage, etc. etc.) but holy crap, there are risks for anything you do. You could choke on your food at breakfast tomorrow and die. Better not eat. You could fall down a flight of stairs and break your neck later today. Better not use them. You could be caught in an earthquake and be crushed by a building. Better get off the ground. Oh, but wait, your plane might crash. Life is full of risks and pain and it sucks and it's hard to deal with sometimes. But that does not by any means justify the death of a baby because you are too selfish to deal with the consequences you brought up yourself (and here I'm referring to those women who had consensual sex and got pregnant).
Yes, this post is quite venomous. I probably shouldn't be submitting it, but I am so against abortion that it's not even funny. I cannot wrap my head around the idea of someone not wanting to sacrifice themselves for another human being, especially one that is defenseless and has done absolutely nothing. Especially those women who are doing it out of a selfish desire to further their own life. When you have sex babies are made. Deal with it or don't do it at all.
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:40 pm
I won't quote the whole thing, it's too long.
What was the point of the modeling age arguement anyways?
If you don't want plastic surgery, the computer edit the scar away.
If you bring charges against your own child, then there is something seriously wrong with you.
The joke was stupid, both arguments are pointless. The mother wouldn't win anyways.
It's not 40%-50%. For breast cancer, it's more likely to increase with age, average 1 in every 3,000 pregnant mothers get it. It also doesn't mean that you'll automatically get permanent body damage.
For overweight: Most isn't attributed to pregnancy. The situations where it is are very rare. Anyway, who cares if you're overweight? It's probably not that much anyway. Who cares what other people think?
Both of the last points are for the mother to decide. For me, it is morally wrong.
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:44 pm
Quote: The joke was stupid, both arguments are pointless. The mother wouldn't win anyways. I think you would be surprised at the incredible injustice of the justice system. The prosecution would actually have a pretty good case.
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:47 pm
Fushigi na Butterfly Okay, I don't feel like quoting cuz there is alot to quote. First off, why should a woman have the choice to kill her baby because she doesn't want a scar that would hardly ever be seen?? Unless her career absolutely depends on it it's just selfish (it's selfish even if your career does depend on it). Technology is great; a scar can be easily removed on a computer from a picture; no harm done. I just have the hardest time forgiving a woman for getting an abortion because she values her own body- not even her whole body, but that particular part of her body- more than she values the life growing inside her. I hold the same sort of unfortunate grudge towards those women who are so obsessed with fitting into some crazy image of physical beauty that they starve themselves. Why don't we just stop caring what those women do too? If it's all the same. One woman wants the decision to do with her body as she wishes by getting an abortion because she won't like how she looks afterwards, whereas the other wants the decision to do with her body as she wishes by throwing up after every meal or by not eating at all because she doesn't like how she looks now. What's the difference? Let's let 'em all do what they want. I think it's sad that society cares more for bulimic and anorexic women than they do for those women who want to kill their baby. Or is it because the woman might die if she has an eating disorder? Forget all about the baby that dies as a result of abortion.
There is alot more room for forgiveness for those women who were raped because yes, the experience is traumatic and to have to live with the results forever would be hard, especially if the woman is not so easily healed as others might be. However, it's still a life. Why should one life be ruined because another had a very huge valley in it?? The physical pain is temporary, and plus there is the option for an epidural and then she doesn't feel anything. Yes, there's risks there too (nerve damage, etc. etc.) but holy crap, there are risks for anything you do. You could choke on your food at breakfast tomorrow and die. Better not eat. You could fall down a flight of stairs and break your neck later today. Better not use them. You could be caught in an earthquake and be crushed by a building. Better get off the ground. Oh, but wait, your plane might crash. Life is full of risks and pain and it sucks and it's hard to deal with sometimes. But that does not by any means justify the death of a baby because you are too selfish to deal with the consequences you brought up yourself (and here I'm referring to those women who had consensual sex and got pregnant).
Yes, this post is quite venomous. I probably shouldn't be submitting it, but I am so against abortion that it's not even funny. I cannot wrap my head around the idea of someone not wanting to sacrifice themselves for another human being, especially one that is defenseless and has done absolutely nothing. Especially those women who are doing it out of a selfish desire to further their own life. When you have sex babies are made. Deal with it or don't do it at all. And what's your opinion on birth control? At what point does a sex cell become a human? At the time of conception? Or do you wait a few months? Or do you propose that we save every single egg and sperm for future use, since each one is a potential life? A baby can ruin your life if you're not prepared for it. Admittedly, the point on modelling was stupid. But if the mother cannot afford it then there really is no other option besides adoption, and quite honestly giving birth to something you're never going to see again, to some women, does not make sense. I think you should look at these women in a different light. No woman takes the subject of abortion lightly. You have to see it from their perspective; abortion is an extremely stressful concept, but sometimes people see it as a necessity.
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:46 pm
Lethkhar Quote: The joke was stupid, both arguments are pointless. The mother wouldn't win anyways. I think you would be surprised at the incredible injustice of the justice system. The prosecution would actually have a pretty good case. It also depends on the jury. In fact, I don't think they would even find a fair jury, because almost everyone has a biased opinion on the subject.
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:57 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar Quote: The joke was stupid, both arguments are pointless. The mother wouldn't win anyways. I think you would be surprised at the incredible injustice of the justice system. The prosecution would actually have a pretty good case. It also depends on the jury. In fact, I don't think they would even find a fair jury, because almost everyone has a biased opinion on the subject. Oh, if they were wealthy enough they would.
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:28 am
Lethkhar And what's your opinion on birth control? At what point does a sex cell become a human? At the time of conception? Or do you wait a few months? Or do you propose that we save every single egg and sperm for future use, since each one is a potential life?
By themselves, gametes are useless. It's only when there's a union that anything can happen. To say that contraceptives are the same as abortion on moral wrongness is to say that every time a woman has a period she's a murderer and ... men ... well ... I can't even think of a good analogy for them since they've got so many ... little swimmers?? (oh jeez, these euphemisms are terrible sweatdrop )Lethkhar A baby can ruin your life if you're not prepared for it. Admittedly, the point on modelling was stupid. But if the mother cannot afford it then there really is no other option besides adoption, and quite honestly giving birth to something you're never going to see again, to some women, does not make sense. I think you should look at these women in a different light. No woman takes the subject of abortion lightly. You have to see it from their perspective; abortion is an extremely stressful concept, but sometimes people see it as a necessity.
I have a friend who had an abortion because she got pregnant cheating on her boyfriend. She regrets it and while at first I was quite uncomfortable knowing that detail about her life, I made myself forgive her because I don't know what all she was going through and I don't know what all she goes through now as a result. She's human and no human is perfect; we all make terrible decisions. But it's selfishness like that that makes me so vehemently pro-life. If women were getting abortions for reasons that actually mattered then I wouldn't be so .... in people's faces about what I believe.
I know women who get abortions or who are pro-choice aren't bad. They just want to be able to decide for themselves whether to become a mother, but I really, really think that that decision should be made before conception. Maybe if women paid more attention to their bodies then, if they really wanted to have sex, they could do it at a time that wouldn't catch them in a window of opportunity for pregnancy.
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:35 pm
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar Quote: The joke was stupid, both arguments are pointless. The mother wouldn't win anyways. I think you would be surprised at the incredible injustice of the justice system. The prosecution would actually have a pretty good case. It also depends on the jury. In fact, I don't think they would even find a fair jury, because almost everyone has a biased opinion on the subject. Oh, if they were wealthy enough they would. Bribery. Again, not a fair jury. By the fact that you haven't responded to the rest of my post, I believe that I won?
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:08 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar Quote: The joke was stupid, both arguments are pointless. The mother wouldn't win anyways. I think you would be surprised at the incredible injustice of the justice system. The prosecution would actually have a pretty good case. It also depends on the jury. In fact, I don't think they would even find a fair jury, because almost everyone has a biased opinion on the subject. Oh, if they were wealthy enough they would. Bribery. Again, not a fair jury. No, our justice system is not fair. Excellent observation. 3nodding Quote: By the fact that you haven't responded to the rest of my post, I believe that I won? You said that the last two arguments were completely a matter of opinion, so I saw no need to argue them any further.
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