Welcome to Gaia! ::

I suppose that is the question posed. When people say they are being selfish, or that others are being selfish, when you really think about it is not true of humanity as a whole? Of emotion, of action and reaction?

Is there any real 'selfless act' that does not benefit an individual? Any 'selfless' act that they do not gain a measure of joy, of pride, of relief? Any 'selfless' act that doesn't elicit a form of gratification, or even emotion?

When one gives willingly to another, an object, or cash, or even an opportunity, without asking anything in return, does the one doing the giving not feel good afterwards? Like they have helped someone in some way, and feel pride and joy in that act?

When one sacrifices something for someone, does the one sacrificing something not feel good they helped someone, or that they looked good in the eyes of someone else? That they will be thought of in a good light?

When one sacrifices free time to help the injured, the elderly, the disabled, or the impoverished, do they not feel good knowing they have saved a life, or that they have given someone the opportunity to live a life of their chosing?

When one sacrifices their own life to become a parent, to care for and raise another life (or other lives), do parents not feel pride and joy in watching their children grow and become parents of their own?

Take for example the old saying, "Do something for someone else, it'll make you feel better afterwards" (or a saying similar to that one), is it not baiting someone else to be selfless for the selfish reason of satisfaction/gratification?

When you really think about it, is anyone ever *truly* selfless? Dare I say, and I may offend some people here but I know this group's pretty open-minded, but dare I say that even God (or any other deity/all powerful being by another name/other names) is a selfish being as well. At least, the Christian God as I know Him. He created humanity, earth, gave humans choice, yet through various people (i.e. the Papacy, the Priesthood, etc.) He has told humanity to worship Him, at the very least once a week, and to follow His commandments. If you really think about it, is that not selfishness? "I have given you choice, and given you life, and all I ask in return is your praise, your devotion, your love, and to follow my laws. Or else." Of course, I'm not saying God is a bad person, or that religion is a bad thing (I have personal opinions on organized religion, but that's for another topic...)

Everyone has a price, as the saying goes. Sometimes that price just isn't money or material possession; sometimes that price is emotion, reputation, or a person (i.e. a person's life/future).

Do not get me wrong, though. I am not saying a little bit of selfishness is a bad thing, nor am I saying that people helping other people is bad. Just pointing out that is there anything that's truly selfless.

And who knows what a "god's" intentions may be, if you could even personify it as such a thing to have intentions or inclinations. Some people decided to use that idea of a god to be worshipped and told people to follow it. In earlier history it's my opinion that people either obeyed the religion of the empire, of the ruling forces, or were ostracized / put to death. There was not the freedom to question as we have had in recent times, in my mind. Thus in relation to this topic, religion not found through one's own spiritual searches ought be considered fictitious and not worth the time of guessing how a deity would fit into the picture of selflessness.

I used to be quite the philosopher, now I'd rather watch other people debate and see what they come up with. And yes I agree. There are plenty of people out there who'll only help if they get something in return, or will help and then expect favors, or to be favored. When power and money are waved in one's faces, many a man's moral fiber degrades.

I don't see helping others as being selfish, as you're not expecting something back. Yeah, it makes you feel good that you helped out, but as Swooboo said that wasn't motivation.

Good example is that flame sword you're wearing. I gave it to you because you liked it. I had no other motivation, hence I was not selfish.

But I do enjoy the fact you use it so often and that it made you happy having it. It's a nice side effect to not being a total a*****e all the time.

I think humans are inately selfish. It is just our nature. We don't have telepathy, or a hive mind, therefore we are each the navel of our universe. Even so, I still think that good can be done in a selfless manner. Just because it needs to be done, not for any emotional profit. But I bet that for the most part that altruism has some sort of feedback mechanism.

What goes around comes around. If you do well unto others, chances are they're gonna be likely to do something nice for you in the future. Or help out in some way that you wouldn't be aware of. Or reduction of your karmic burden. razz

There are scientific papers on the mechanism of altruism in humans. By "feedback mechanism", I mean that doing certain acts of altruism may stimulate certain neurtransmitters which have been optimized because of survival of the species. It is very possible that altruism can help the species.

Ah, I see! Nifty!! I certainly hope altruism has a bigger part to play in humankind than simply being a plot device biggrin