|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:55 pm
Does the mind depend on the brain to exist?
If it doesn't then why does the mind get messed up or even turn you into a different person when something happens to your brain?
If it does then does that mean there's absolutely no consciousness after death? Even if there is will it be the same consciousness("mind") that you have now?
How do you make a real mind anyway? Did the brain really make all of it by itself? Just get some gray spaghetti and turn on some electric and you get a mind? One little neuron by itself doesn't make a mind, not 2, not 3 so at what point does the consciousness come in?
If there is a mind or consciousness after death then does that mean it's possible that there could be consciousness before you're born since assumingly the mind can exist without the brain. Otherwise it would mean that the brain created the mind. But if the brain didn't create the mind where was your consciousness before you even physically existed?
Is the mind real or just a figment from being meat robots?
A lot of people think this topic is stupid and pointless but it's what a lot of the famous philosophers have talked about. And I think it's one of the topics where it's really 50/50 between theists and atheists so I think it's interesting and want to hear what everyone here has to say about it.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:55 pm
I've afraid it's just electricity firing around your brain.
That doesn't mean that there can't be an afterlife, though. Most religions I know of describe the afterlife as a totally new state, where your old ways of thinking are completely altered. In Christianity, for example, you are so filled with the love of God that you are no longer concerned with the affairs of the world.
Scientifically, I don't see why this could not be supported. You won't be the same, obviously, since the electricity won't be firing in your brain anymore. But the energy of that electricity will still exist and will simply go into something else. A total transformation. You might think of it like this: instead of being locked up inside your brain, it will be set free to go back into the earth becoming one with nature.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:25 pm
The mind is different from the brain. Yes, the brain is the house for the mind, but it does not mean that the mind is not seperate. Chi exists as well. When you send the signal to your arm to move it, yes, there is an electrical impulse that is sent, but the chi is sent at the same time and hits the muscle whent the electricity does, and the muscle moves. If you'd like to know of other things I've learned, like the fact that the soul and spirit are two different things, I'm open to conversation. At any rate, I apologize if I went off topic at all, but these things are all interconnected. Body, chi, mind, soul, and spirit. All of these combine to make us who we are on this planet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:17 pm
Shinta Hitokiri The mind is different from the brain. Yes, the brain is the house for the mind, but it does not mean that the mind is not seperate. Chi exists as well. When you send the signal to your arm to move it, yes, there is an electrical impulse that is sent, but the chi is sent at the same time and hits the muscle whent the electricity does, and the muscle moves. If you'd like to know of other things I've learned, like the fact that the soul and spirit are two different things, I'm open to conversation. At any rate, I apologize if I went off topic at all, but these things are all interconnected. Body, chi, mind, soul, and spirit. All of these combine to make us who we are on this planet.
Great job of explaining it! I really agree with you. smile
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:14 pm
Holyramagi Shinta Hitokiri The mind is different from the brain. Yes, the brain is the house for the mind, but it does not mean that the mind is not seperate. Chi exists as well. When you send the signal to your arm to move it, yes, there is an electrical impulse that is sent, but the chi is sent at the same time and hits the muscle whent the electricity does, and the muscle moves. If you'd like to know of other things I've learned, like the fact that the soul and spirit are two different things, I'm open to conversation. At any rate, I apologize if I went off topic at all, but these things are all interconnected. Body, chi, mind, soul, and spirit. All of these combine to make us who we are on this planet.
Great job of explaining it! I really agree with you. smile
Thanks. I only tried to sum up what my master taught me on the subject as best I could.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:43 am
It would seam to me that the answer of consciousness without a mind could be found in research and accounts of ghost sightings. Ghosts (and perhaps other entities) have been reported to make direct communication sometimes primitive, and at times more detailed, with humans. Seeing as these are spirits that no longer have bodies, it would be arguable that thought is possible without a brain, based upon the fact that the brain aids in interpreting and broadcasting signals during the act of communication. What doesn't make sense however, is the reason for having a brain in the human body if it is not needed to sustain thought. Perhaps it's functions serve more to regulate the body than to serve as a tool that facilitates thought. Shinta Hitokiri The mind is different from the brain. Yes, the brain is the house for the mind, but it does not mean that the mind is not seperate. Chi exists as well. When you send the signal to your arm to move it, yes, there is an electrical impulse that is sent, but the chi is sent at the same time and hits the muscle whent the electricity does, and the muscle moves. If you'd like to know of other things I've learned, like the fact that the soul and spirit are two different things, I'm open to conversation. At any rate, I apologize if I went off topic at all, but these things are all interconnected. Body, chi, mind, soul, and spirit. All of these combine to make us who we are on this planet. That's quite intrigeing. If you could explain in finer detail, i'd be very interested.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:32 am
edwina_half_elven Shinta Hitokiri The mind is different from the brain. Yes, the brain is the house for the mind, but it does not mean that the mind is not seperate. Chi exists as well. When you send the signal to your arm to move it, yes, there is an electrical impulse that is sent, but the chi is sent at the same time and hits the muscle whent the electricity does, and the muscle moves. If you'd like to know of other things I've learned, like the fact that the soul and spirit are two different things, I'm open to conversation. At any rate, I apologize if I went off topic at all, but these things are all interconnected. Body, chi, mind, soul, and spirit. All of these combine to make us who we are on this planet. That's quite intrigeing. If you could explain in finer detail, i'd be very interested. Certainly. I think it might be best to start from the top of the chain, then. The spririt is us in the truest sense. What we love and hate, the things we cannot explain if we tried. For instance, my love of swordsmanship. The spirit knows neither pain nor fear, and only takes on a flesh body for the experiences we gain in life. The soul is the next step down. The soul is the source of emotion, sadness, rejection, and also things like happiness and pride. The soul is what we usually try to restrain when we have feelings we don't want, like lingering sorrow over one we love having left us. We can try to not think of them, but that is about all. We try to rationalize it, hoping we will stop feeling. Next is the mind. This is where rational though orginates, as well as the great enemy: ego. Ego is the source of internal suffering. It makes us too brash, and when we are helpless, it is what sends us into panic and self pity, looking back at what we were. The cure to such things is following the Four Agreements and to stop rationalizing. True zen masters were incredible at such things. Chi is one of the lower forms of energy, but very useful regardless. The chi is life energy, and can be used for many things. It can heal, revitalize, and do other things that seem to defy physics, like alteration of the flow of time around you, or what some might think as manipulation of gravity. For instance, my master actually made himself lighter and then heavier. It was an absolutely huge difference when I picked him up. (He's not small. About average height and strong build.) The body, the physical, also has it's uses. the body is the ultimate tool. Have it repeat something and it becomes easier. Put it off balance and it learns to balance. At the same time, being in perfect harmony with one's body allows greater awareness. If you are truly in tune with it, you can tell that you have a virus long before any noticeable symptoms occur. Also, with control of the body and everything else, one can achieve a state of what my master calls nirvana, or a one-ness with God. He's seen and achieved it. When obtained, no one can touch you on the battlefield. He saw a student of his defeat ten opponents in a matter of seconds. If you've any questions on this, feel free to ask. I only try to recite what I can of what the Maestro has taught me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:36 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:46 pm
Well it can be any form of a life force/energy. It can be called your consciousness, spirit, soul or whatever. The question is if it depends on your body, specifically your brain to survive.
If it doesn't then why does the state of the brain affect the state of your mind? There was another question of why need the body to sustain thought or to essentially be alive?
And one of the most important questions I addressed was if you could be 'alive' after your body dies then I think it may be possible that you could have had a conscience or spirit before it was put into your body. Otherwise it would be contradictory to think that it was your brain that made your consciousness if it came after you physically existed. But I guess there can be multiple variations of religous explanations on how a supernatural God can work their way around that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:54 pm
Uhm, that's a lot of questions to ask, very big as well, aren't they? sweatdrop
To jump right into it, you're basically asking if reincarnation exists. However, you want to know if it's in the mind that consciousness moves. Most people who think this way think that it is the soul, the essence of a person, that moves from body to body after death.
It's my own personal belief that there is a soul, or a basic essence that does move on after death. Not the mind, as it is with all of the memories and lessons learned, but the soul which is the very essence and roots of what you are.
Quite blatantly, if you thought about it enough, I think you'd find the idea of the mind, in and of itself (completely intact, I mean), doesn't make any sense. If you have a mind that existed previously, why can't you tell me about the life you lead previously or the lessons you learned there? Mostly, I'll have to answer yes. Yes, your brain and the environment you live in molds your consciousness and the way you view the world.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:47 pm
Tsuki_Mari Uhm, that's a lot of questions to ask, very big as well, aren't they? sweatdrop
To jump right into it, you're basically asking if reincarnation exists. However, you want to know if it's in the mind that consciousness moves. Most people who think this way think that it is the soul, the essence of a person, that moves from body to body after death.
It's my own personal belief that there is a soul, or a basic essence that does move on after death. Not the mind, as it is with all of the memories and lessons learned, but the soul which is the very essence and roots of what you are.
Quite blatantly, if you thought about it enough, I think you'd find the idea of the mind, in and of itself (completely intact, I mean), doesn't make any sense. If you have a mind that existed previously, why can't you tell me about the life you lead previously or the lessons you learned there? Mostly, I'll have to answer yes. Yes, your brain and the environment you live in molds your consciousness and the way you view the world. I think I explained the soul and spirit kind of thoroughly above. You're welcome to put in your thoughts on such things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:01 pm
Tsuki_Mari Uhm, that's a lot of questions to ask, very big as well, aren't they? sweatdrop
To jump right into it, you're basically asking if reincarnation exists. However, you want to know if it's in the mind that consciousness moves. Most people who think this way think that it is the soul, the essence of a person, that moves from body to body after death.
It's my own personal belief that there is a soul, or a basic essence that does move on after death. Not the mind, as it is with all of the memories and lessons learned, but the soul which is the very essence and roots of what you are.
Quite blatantly, if you thought about it enough, I think you'd find the idea of the mind, in and of itself (completely intact, I mean), doesn't make any sense. If you have a mind that existed previously, why can't you tell me about the life you lead previously or the lessons you learned there? Mostly, I'll have to answer yes. Yes, your brain and the environment you live in molds your consciousness and the way you view the world.
Well I guess reincarnation is a possible valid argument. But explicity that means that the 'soul' you have now has already been in someone(s) else's body and has existed for who knows how long already. I'm not calling it delusional but it does blow my mind away. lol
It's been agreed by some that the mind and soul are 2 separate things but it's still hard to distinguish all what or should make them different because people have different opinions. So when you say the environment affects your consciousness do you mean the mind or the soul? Either way it sounds like that's a standpoint of monoism while reincarnation sounds more like dualism. I just want make sure I'm reading this right. ^^
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:57 pm
Khrea Tsuki_Mari Uhm, that's a lot of questions to ask, very big as well, aren't they? sweatdrop
To jump right into it, you're basically asking if reincarnation exists. However, you want to know if it's in the mind that consciousness moves. Most people who think this way think that it is the soul, the essence of a person, that moves from body to body after death.
It's my own personal belief that there is a soul, or a basic essence that does move on after death. Not the mind, as it is with all of the memories and lessons learned, but the soul which is the very essence and roots of what you are.
Quite blatantly, if you thought about it enough, I think you'd find the idea of the mind, in and of itself (completely intact, I mean), doesn't make any sense. If you have a mind that existed previously, why can't you tell me about the life you lead previously or the lessons you learned there? Mostly, I'll have to answer yes. Yes, your brain and the environment you live in molds your consciousness and the way you view the world.
Well I guess reincarnation is a possible valid argument. But explicity that means that the 'soul' you have now has already been in someone(s) else's body and has existed for who knows how long already. I'm not calling it delusional but it does blow my mind away. lol
It's been agreed by some that the mind and soul are 2 separate things but it's still hard to distinguish all what or should make them different because people have different opinions. So when you say the environment affects your consciousness do you mean the mind or the soul? Either way it sounds like that's a standpoint of monoism while reincarnation sounds more like dualism. I just want make sure I'm reading this right. ^^Well, you could always look at my explaination of such things. I had to explain the flesh, chi, mind, soul, and spirit all at once to do it properly, but it gives a better understanding of one's self as a whole.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:43 pm
Shinta Hitokiri edwina_half_elven Shinta Hitokiri The mind is different from the brain. Yes, the brain is the house for the mind, but it does not mean that the mind is not seperate. Chi exists as well. When you send the signal to your arm to move it, yes, there is an electrical impulse that is sent, but the chi is sent at the same time and hits the muscle whent the electricity does, and the muscle moves. If you'd like to know of other things I've learned, like the fact that the soul and spirit are two different things, I'm open to conversation. At any rate, I apologize if I went off topic at all, but these things are all interconnected. Body, chi, mind, soul, and spirit. All of these combine to make us who we are on this planet. That's quite intrigeing. If you could explain in finer detail, i'd be very interested. Certainly. I think it might be best to start from the top of the chain, then. The spririt is us in the truest sense. What we love and hate, the things we cannot explain if we tried. For instance, my love of swordsmanship. The spirit knows neither pain nor fear, and only takes on a flesh body for the experiences we gain in life. The soul is the next step down. The soul is the source of emotion, sadness, rejection, and also things like happiness and pride. The soul is what we usually try to restrain when we have feelings we don't want, like lingering sorrow over one we love having left us. We can try to not think of them, but that is about all. We try to rationalize it, hoping we will stop feeling. Next is the mind. This is where rational though orginates, as well as the great enemy: ego. Ego is the source of internal suffering. It makes us too brash, and when we are helpless, it is what sends us into panic and self pity, looking back at what we were. The cure to such things is following the Four Agreements and to stop rationalizing. True zen masters were incredible at such things. Chi is one of the lower forms of energy, but very useful regardless. The chi is life energy, and can be used for many things. It can heal, revitalize, and do other things that seem to defy physics, like alteration of the flow of time around you, or what some might think as manipulation of gravity. For instance, my master actually made himself lighter and then heavier. It was an absolutely huge difference when I picked him up. (He's not small. About average height and strong build.) The body, the physical, also has it's uses. the body is the ultimate tool. Have it repeat something and it becomes easier. Put it off balance and it learns to balance. At the same time, being in perfect harmony with one's body allows greater awareness. If you are truly in tune with it, you can tell that you have a virus long before any noticeable symptoms occur. Also, with control of the body and everything else, one can achieve a state of what my master calls nirvana, or a one-ness with God. He's seen and achieved it. When obtained, no one can touch you on the battlefield. He saw a student of his defeat ten opponents in a matter of seconds. If you've any questions on this, feel free to ask. I only try to recite what I can of what the Maestro has taught me. Great theory. Except there is no proof.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
