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 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:43 pm
Watching Ultimate OVA 2, I noticed that Van Helsing said something vaguely religiousy sounding. All flesh is grass, and loveliness is the flower of the field The grass withereth, the flower fadeth... but the word of our God abideth forever! These are lines from Isaiah. Isaiah 40:6 A voice says, "Call out." Then he answered, "What shall I call out?" All flesh is grass, and all its loveliness is like the flower of the field. Isaiah 40:7 The grass withers, the flower fades, When the breath of the LORD blows upon it; Surely the people are grass. Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever. Now, That's 40:6 and 40:8. I'm not entirely sure why he didn't recite 40:7, but given the context, if you IGNORE 40:7, he isn't stating that PEOPLE are grass, merely FLESH is... So that All things, Vampire, Ghoul and Person, are all the same, and they will all come to pass, except for God's word, which will always exist, as GOD is the one true immortal. If you put in 40:7, it says People specifically, which would mean he's admitting his own downfall. I'm not sure if this is correct or not, it's just a hunch. Translations will vary from bible print to bible print, but the message remains the same. This thread is to discuss biblical references in manga, anime and ultimate, as well as citing WHERE they come from.
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:52 pm
THE Jan Valentine Watching Ultimate OVA 2, I noticed that Van Helsing said something vaguely religiousy sounding. All flesh is grass, and loveliness is the flower of the field The grass withereth, the flower fadeth... but the word of our God abideth forever! These are lines from Isaiah. Isaiah 40:6 A voice says, "Call out." Then he answered, "What shall I call out?" All flesh is grass, and all its loveliness is like the flower of the field. Isaiah 40:7 The grass withers, the flower fades, When the breath of the LORD blows upon it; Surely the people are grass. Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever. Now, That's 40:6 and 40:8. I'm not entirely sure why he didn't recite 40:7, but given the context, if you IGNORE 40:7, he isn't stating that PEOPLE are grass, merely FLESH is... So that All things, Vampire, Ghoul and Person, are all the same, and they will all come to pass, except for God's word, which will always exist, as GOD is the one true immortal. If you put in 40:7, it says People specifically, which would mean he's admitting his own downfall. I'm not sure if this is correct or not, it's just a hunch. Translations will vary from bible print to bible print, but the message remains the same. This thread is to discuss biblical references in manga, anime and ultimate, as well as citing WHERE they come from. That's a very intelligent observation. Immortality is laughable simply because it does not exsist. I've never actually read the bible, but it makes so much sense now...I figured he was quoting something from it though.
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:56 pm
I'm a Roman Catholic. I don't seriously follow religion, however after hearing it, I googled for "flesh is grass", and found the first part. Then using the online bible it linked me to, I looked through the rest of it.
I'm assuming ANDERSON quotes Jude (Book of Judas) when he's doing his prayers.
The irony in that is that Jude 1:2 is "Mercy, peace and love be yours in abundance"
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Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:22 am
i don't know exactly where most of them are from, but i do know a lot of anderson's are paraphrased from actual scripture, and that the rest are just made up. anderson's museum dialogue: " thou shalt break them with a rod of iron, thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, o ye kings: be instructed, o ye judges of the earth." seems to be derived from this in part: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah 19:1-12" serve the lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling" is: Psalm 2:11 " kiss the son... " is derived from: Psalm 2:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=2&verse=12&version=31&context=versei gave up on organized religion the summer they showed a fund raising video from the dioscese right before mass, so i have very little care for it anymore, but i do keep research sites on a lot of stuff in case i need it for my writing. *shrug* (nothing against god, it's just his fanboys that irk me sometimes.)
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Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:25 am
Like I said, I don't follow my religion. I really don't. I just like seeing what is REAL in there.
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:56 pm
michigami i don't know exactly where most of them are from, but i do know a lot of anderson's are paraphrased from actual scripture, and that the rest are just made up. anderson's museum dialogue: " thou shalt break them with a rod of iron, thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, o ye kings: be instructed, o ye judges of the earth." seems to be derived from this in part: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah 19:1-12" serve the lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling" is: Psalm 2:11 " kiss the son... " is derived from: Psalm 2:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=2&verse=12&version=31&context=versei gave up on organized religion the summer they showed a fund raising video from the dioscese right before mass, so i have very little care for it anymore, but i do keep research sites on a lot of stuff in case i need it for my writing. *shrug* (nothing against god, it's just his fanboys that irk me sometimes.) Ah, I was just going to mention those. Heh, I have them underlined in my Bible because of Hellsing. Jan, good points there. He just might have been admitting his own defeat as well as Dracula's. After all, for all Van Helsing's leet vampire hunting skillz, he would eventually die. Oh, now that you remind me of the verses, I just thought of something. Rememer how OVA 2 starts out with Alucard's flashback? It should really appear in a later volume. But when Luke was talking with Alucard about immortality, and Alucard says no one is immortal, it makes sense why they put the flashback in early. Or maybe it was just a filler. I dunno. But it sounds better my way. biggrin
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:26 am
I think you misunderstood me, Ace.
I was saying with the line he missed out, he was declaring all things except God will come to pass, man and monster.
If the line was in there, he'd only be declaring humans will eventually fall.
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:16 pm
THE Jan Valentine I think you misunderstood me, Ace. I was saying with the line he missed out, he was declaring all things except God will come to pass, man and monster. If the line was in there, he'd only be declaring humans will eventually fall. No, I think what you said would also apply to the verse he said. After all, "all flesh" is pretty inclusive. Even if they are seen to be immortal, vampires are still flesh in the end.
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:15 am
Ace of Death THE Jan Valentine I think you misunderstood me, Ace. I was saying with the line he missed out, he was declaring all things except God will come to pass, man and monster. If the line was in there, he'd only be declaring humans will eventually fall. No, I think what you said would also apply to the verse he said. After all, "all flesh" is pretty inclusive. Even if they are seen to be immortal, vampires are still flesh in the end. -bangs head against wall- This is what I mean. WITHOUT the middle line, he is saying it subjectively. ALL FLESH. Everything, except God, will pass. WITH the middle line, it's NOT about that. Because it states not only that all flesh is grass, but that grass must be the people. HUMANS. All he'd be saying is "people are mortal and we'll die." Ignoring the middle line makes it more "you're not invincible, you'll die the same as anything else. FEAR GOD."
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:27 pm
THE Jan Valentine I'm a Roman Catholic. I don't seriously follow religion, however after hearing it, I googled for "flesh is grass", and found the first part. Then using the online bible it linked me to, I looked through the rest of it. I'm assuming ANDERSON quotes Jude (Book of Judas) when he's doing his prayers. The irony in that is that Jude 1:2 is "Mercy, peace and love be yours in abundance" I never eealized that, how much religion do they really use in Hellsing?
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:12 pm
THE Jan Valentine Now, That's 40:6 and 40:8. I'm not entirely sure why he didn't recite 40:7, but given the context, if you IGNORE 40:7, he isn't stating that PEOPLE are grass, merely FLESH is... In fact, he may not have been quoting Isaiah at all! The quote ALSO appears in 1 Peter: King James Version, 1 Peter 1:24-25 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. Not the exact words Abraham used, but who says Hirano was cross-referencing? To that end, many different translations have used differing words in their version. I know when I first ran across this verse in MY Bible (using my mom's as ref right now) it used the "loveliness" bit.. Also, men are prone to err in reciting scripture, so long as the paraphrase highlights the points they wish to convey at the time. So its possible Abraham was choosing and paraphrasing what he felt was important at the moment. Anyway, thought I'd add my two cents worth and point out it appears in other spots, and he may not have "cut" the verse at all--he simply used a different scripture.
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:44 am
Wow. I'm impressed with this thread folks. *makes note to return and read through more carfully*
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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:55 pm
Elindarhya THE Jan Valentine Now, That's 40:6 and 40:8. I'm not entirely sure why he didn't recite 40:7, but given the context, if you IGNORE 40:7, he isn't stating that PEOPLE are grass, merely FLESH is... In fact, he may not have been quoting Isaiah at all! The quote ALSO appears in 1 Peter: King James Version, 1 Peter 1:24-25 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. Not the exact words Abraham used, but who says Hirano was cross-referencing? To that end, many different translations have used differing words in their version. I know when I first ran across this verse in MY Bible (using my mom's as ref right now) it used the "loveliness" bit.. Also, men are prone to err in reciting scripture, so long as the paraphrase highlights the points they wish to convey at the time. So its possible Abraham was choosing and paraphrasing what he felt was important at the moment. Anyway, thought I'd add my two cents worth and point out it appears in other spots, and he may not have "cut" the verse at all--he simply used a different scripture. I do believe Abraham was quoting Peter, not Isaiah. In any case, he's basically saying that there is no such thing as immortality, even when it seems like there is. Eventually, everything dies or fades into nonexistence. Everything except, of course, that which was and is and will always be there (God). Perhaps this is the root of Alucard's belief that "There's no such thing as eternal in this world". There is indeed a lot of religion in Hellsing, mostly religious strife. Two of the three organizations fighting the war in England are fanatically religious organizations. Ironically, both are Christian organizations. They are, of course, Hellsing and Iscariot. Hellsing is Protestant, and Iscariot is Catholic. While Hellsing is not nearly as fanatical as Iscariot, it cannot be denied that they are fanatical (after all, their motto is "We are on a mission from God"). This puts them at odds with Iscariot. One also sees religious strife in the conflict between Christians and Muslims that Alucard took part in during his human life. At that time, Alucard was as fanatically religious as, for example, Anderson is now. Religion is everywhere.
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:57 pm
There is no possible way for me to actually participate in the thread without seeming like a total blasphemous idiot... So I'm just going to say that I agree with Jan.
>>''
Which I do.
I mean, I really... DON'T read the bible. And I'm really not knowledgeable in anything bible-y.
But it does make sense that there is a fair amount of religion in Hellsing.
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:47 pm
The Thorn In Your Side There is no possible way for me to actually participate in the thread without seeming like a total blasphemous idiot... So I'm just going to say that I agree with Jan.
>>''
Which I do.
I mean, I really... DON'T read the bible. And I'm really not knowledgeable in anything bible-y.
But it does make sense that there is a fair amount of religion in Hellsing. Religious and biblical allusions are plentiful in Hellsing, so general knowledge of religion and the Bible is quite useful. I've read the Bible, but I don't believe everything that it says (for example, I don't believe in the existence of God).
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