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JINFINITE

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:31 pm


My appy gelding has been having some turning issues. He's naturally headstrong, but he used to turn at the slightest bit of pressure. Now he's ruined.
A couple months before summer started was when I first rode him and he was amazing. A bit difficult once in a while, but that's his being an appy, not him himself. He jumped, side stepped, canter from a stand still, back up....everything. And he was FAT. But very responsive, one of the easiest horses to ride in the stables. He's also the first horse I cantered and jumped on.
Then he was used in the summer camp for a bunch of ten and under kids. He started loosing weight and would bite them. Especially the really fat bitchy little girls...>>

He's starting gaining weight again and is jumping again. But he makes a mad dash for the arena gate after every jump. Sometimes he'll dodge the jump completely and go to the gate. And I can't turn him. He locks his head down near his hooves. Sometimes when I do turn him he goes in circles till I let him go back to the gate.

He also follows my friend's horses. If it's our turn to jump he'll avoid the jump and go to the middle of the arena where my friend's are waiting.

I don't want to hurt his mouth by yanking on him, and he's rather difficult to ride without a bit though I was going to try just a halter and reins. At one point over the summer I had to use a hackmore and he was horrible, his mouth was sore and everything.

Does anyone have any ideas? I also don't have the money right now to get any fancy equipment. He also doesn't really understand the concept of lunging....I could try getting a video of us jumping and him racing for the gate if that would help. Though I wouldn't be able to get it till sunday evening.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:39 am


Sounds like he is BARN BOUND / HEARD BOUND. (Penny is like this too. >.< A real pain to ride when you wanna go fast, and she makes a mad dash for the barn. )

First, take him into the arena on his own and sit there on him, not asking him anything. Just keep him still at the END of the arena, farthest part away from the gate. Keep him there for 10-15 mins. Then start walking him in circles / serpentines / figure 8's in that end and work to the middle and do those there, and then work at the arena's front where the gate is and keep him moving and keep him turning. If he seems to want to go out more, Keep a tight rein on the inside and pull his head in and circle him till he calms down. Circling is key when you want him to listen. If need be, wear short spurs and give him an aide to let him know you want him to go THIS WAY, not HIS WAY.
Being the boss is key. Just keep him working and then try him again that way with One horse and rider in there too. Keep at it until he realizes he can't get away with it.

Saikano

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JINFINITE

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:38 pm


He pulls out of circles most of the time when I do circle him for not turning properly. But I'll try some more, thanks.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:28 pm


I know it's too late now, but that's why I am extremely strict on who rides my mare. Basically the only folks allowed to ride her is my mom and my sister. And with my sister, she can only ride her when I'm there. She has a really short temper when she rides. rolleyes

I think I would ditch jumping for awhile. Sounds like he's not behaving even on the flat, so how can you expect him to be good with jumping?

It also sounds like he's gotten defensive with his mouth, after being hauled on all summer. Maybe try bitless for a little while, or find the gentlest bit you can get, like a happy mouth or a copper french link snaffle. I personally suggest bitless, because they really don't have anything to brace against like they do with a bit in their mouth. It also reassures them that there's no bit to be hurting their mouths this time.

So, once you swap out tack a bit, I'd second the idea of circling, or make it even more difficult with spirals and serpentines. Make him think so much about what pattern you're doing, that he doesn't have a chance to think he wants to leave the arena. When he's got his mind off the gate, praise him like there's no tomorrow. Those kids probably ripped to shreds his confidence too, so he's gonna need some reassuring what it means to be good again.

Darkeenya
Captain


JINFINITE

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:14 pm


Kay, thanks. ^^
He's not really mine. I'm just basically the only one at the stables who rides him.
I would have leased him over summer to keep the kids off of him, but right before my parents agreed to it some other lady leased him and she let them use him for the camp. I don't like her. But hopefully I'll be leasing him by the end of this month so no one else will be ruining him.

I don't think we have any bitless bridles so I'll have to use his halter. We'll see how it goes on Sunday.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:13 pm


[Devil Love]
Kay, thanks. ^^
He's not really mine. I'm just basically the only one at the stables who rides him.
I would have leased him over summer to keep the kids off of him, but right before my parents agreed to it some other lady leased him and she let them use him for the camp. I don't like her. But hopefully I'll be leasing him by the end of this month so no one else will be ruining him.

I don't think we have any bitless bridles so I'll have to use his halter. We'll see how it goes on Sunday.


A halter with two leads will work just fine. Just don't do too much speedy stuff until he gets used to it. smile

Darkeenya
Captain


JINFINITE

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:22 pm


Kays. Yeah, he's kind of hard headed. I had been starting on teaching him voice commands early in the summer but now he's forgetting simple things. I need to work more with him but right now I can only get out there once a week.

I'll ride with the halter tomorrow and let you know how it goes. I just hope I can find the clip on reins cause the halters are all getting lost...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:32 am


I don't know if this applies to your horse or not, but most of the horses that I know who have steering problems have been diagnosed as not enough OUTSIDE aids.

My thoroughbred was terrible for this. We never really learned steering. it was a constant battle. Sometimes, I could let him out on the buckle and he would be perfect, but if he decided he didn't want to do something, he'd brace against the bit and throw himself sideways. The key? Control his shoulders. When a horse ducks sideways, it's with their shoulders, not with their head. Picture a horse shying. What moves first, their head and neck, or their shoulders? When a horse ducks out of a jump, 99% of the time it's because they're popping their outside shoulder then ducking under your reins. If you haul on the inside rein, that only makes it easier for them because it exaggerates the protrusion of the offending shoulder. Think of when beginners are learning to leg yield (side step, side pass, whatever specific disciplines call it when your horse moves sideways while continuing forward motion bent away from the direction of travel). In a correct leg yield the horse should have a slight bend away from the direction of travel, but when people are first learning it, they often will torque their horse's head to the inside and then kick with the inside leg. The horse goes sideways really easily because of the way that affects their balance. If you're horse is ducking left on jumps, and you pull on the right rein, it does EXACTLY the same thing. No matter how much you kick or put pressure with your left leg.

Concentrate on keeping his SHOULDERS straight to the fence, rather than his head. So if he's ducking left, close your left rein and left leg. Keep the right rein, of course, because if you let it go flappy then he'll turn his head and happily canter the other direction. So use your right rein (or whatever direction he is NOT ducking) to steady him, and control his shoulder with your left rein and left leg. If you ride with a crop, hold it in your left hand and rest it on his shoulder. If he tries to duck out, pop him on the shoulder with it.

You can also put ground poles perpendicular to the jump on either side to give him kind of a "chute" to go through to the fence. This can help discourage a horse from ducking.

What do you do for warm-up? I would recccomend, once you have him loosened up of course, doing a lot of transitions and changing directions. Keep him active and guessing so that he HAS to listen to you. Expect him to get off your aids IMMEDIATELY. Don't allow him to run through downward transitions. He needs to learn to pay attention to the person on his back again.

As for the gate problem, where do you dismount? Do you leave the arena and ride back to the barn? Do you ride to the gate and dismount near it? It sounds like he's associating the gate with being finished working, so he wants to get to the gate so he can be done. The solution? Make him work HARDER near the gate. Cool him out only on the opposite side of the arena. Dismount from as far from the gate as you possibly can, and ALWAYS in the arena. If you go for a trailride after your workout, ride back into the arena to dismount. Seem silly? It kind of is, but it's amazing the difference it makes. He gets a break when he's being good. We've all heard the old adage "don't end a ride on a bad note", well, it's true. He's allowed to be done when he behaves, and if he's running through your aids, throwing his shoulder our, etc, he doesn't get to stop working. He needs to work harder. On the flat. Lots of transitions. I love transitions. It makes them listen and think. walk-trot, walk-halt, Trot-halt, trot-canter, walk-canter, etc. As many as you can do until he is light off your touch. If you get him listening, then start to cool out and he starts diving for the gate again, right back to work. More transitions. More serpentines, more circles. He has to not only behave when you're working, but be respectful and pleasant while you're cooling down.

Hope that was helpful, sorry it was so long. redface

AriaStarSong


AriaStarSong

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:35 am


Oh, and I forgot to mention. Crossrails! I know we think of them as a way to teach beginners or green horses to jump. But why? Not because they're so small, but because they teach the horse/rider to ride to the middle. Most horses will still try to jump a cross rail in the center because it's the lowest part. Now, I'm not saying you need to go back to 6" crossrails, you can set them up close to whatever height you're jumping right now, but a cross rail will encourage him to jump centered, rather than to one side or the other, which makes it easier for him to duck.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:21 pm


It's not really that he doesn't jump, he dodges it completely. I'll get him lined up perfectly but a good five feet from the jump he just turns away from it. And I can't really turn him back in time mainly just because he is so much stronger then me. He could probably easily pull me out of the saddle if he really wanted to, but luckily he doesn't act like that.
Even my friend who started jumping a good year or so before me can't really get him to turn.
I think I may go back to when I first started jumping on him....back to trotting ground poles....

As for the gate it onlt really started cause the kids in the camp couldn't turn ihm away from it so he now stops in front of it and tries to push it open by leaning against it.
I normally ride him out of the arena cause there's a hill between the arena and the barn and I enjoy cantering him up the hill.
He's rather attached to his stall though so that might be part of it. once I had to jump off cause he dashed for the barn and nearly cut my head off on the door. And he rode a kid to his stall.
He's not bad mannered and isn't hard to ride, just hard to turn now.

I'll come up with weird patterns for him to follow today and I'll make sure he gets worked. Thankfully he doesn't sweat easily and after jumping for two hours I usually just walk him around the arena once and he's cool enough to bring back up to the barn.

Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know how today goes when I get back.

JINFINITE


AriaStarSong

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:54 pm


You could also try a full-cheek snaffle. Not a severe bit, the mouthpiece is still smooth and has the same effect as a regular snaffle, but the cheeks give you a little extra steering power as it pushes into the side of the face as well. Make sure you get bit keepers to hold the longer cheek pieces in place so that the bit stays at the proper angle in the horse's mouth. And never lunge with a full cheek as the line can get tangled in it, but as you said that he doesn't really lunge, that shouldn't be a problem. smile
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:03 pm


Well I'm back. But I didn't get to ride him. The stable owner sent both me and my friend's horse on a trail ride cause she didn't think we were coming even though we always come on sundays....
So instead we rode two semi-trained, skittish arabs. Bareback with a halter and clip on reins.

I have a feeling I won't get back out there till next sunday.

Agh...I wish my parents would understand that this is why they need to either lease or buy him. That way he won't keep getting ruined and I won't keep going out there only to find someone else riding him.

JINFINITE

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