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Evolution or Creationism? Goto Page: 1 2 3 [>] [»|]

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Do you believe in Creationism or Micro or Macro Evolution?
  Creationism
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Bane Ad Vitam

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:23 pm


What exactly is the Catholic belief of life on Earth? Is it the story of Creation? Is it micro or macro Evolution? I don't know. (I'm confused with the beliefs of other Christian denominations.)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:57 pm


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It used to only be the belife that evolution was not apart of being Catholic, but, now, the Catolic church is saying that it is ok to belive in evolution, as you belive that God made it happen/ is making it happen; evolution is still happening today.

As we Catholics know, God created everything outside of himself in seven days, but that does not mean that he literaly created everything in seven days. The "seven days" is not meant to be taen literaly. In fact, we have no idea on how long it actualy took him. It could have been several thousand years, we just don't know. We have prof with carbon dating that the earth was around before man, and that it exsisted for thousands of years, as did some animals and organisms. Over that period of time, to this day even, things needed to evolve in order to thrive.

If you don't know who Darwin is, I would suggest looking him up. He has done some great research on all of this. But, yes, it is ok to belive in evolution, as long as you also belive that God made it happen/ is making it happen.

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washayourin

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:06 pm


SO was the pope the one to decide it is evolution and creationism? Cause I mean, if a pope ahead of him said it was just creationism, doesn't that mean a pope later on can not say it was both?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:16 pm


Inyourwasha
SO was the pope the one to decide it is evolution and creationism? Cause I mean, if a pope ahead of him said it was just creationism, doesn't that mean a pope later on can not say it was both?


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I have no clue. o_o;;; I learned this about one or two years ago, so I don't really quite remember. I think it was the Catechism of the Catholic church, but I don't know...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:25 pm


The Catholic church does not condemn evolution, as long as one includes God is its scientific process. Personally, I believe that evolution is feasible, and that should be taken into account. I think that people who are strictly creationist are ruling out science, whereas people who are strictly evolutionalist are ruling out faith. It takes both science and faith to make a perfect world, and both to prove God's existence in the first place. So, people, it does not matter if one believes in evolution or not, as long as they include God as the Designer and agknowledge that it is still a theory, not a fact. We have no proof to actually prove evolution or disprove it. That's my long-winded and not-very-helpful opinion, haha...

~KK
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:45 pm


I got a lower grade in a science paper because I suggested that maybe Creationalism along with micro evolution is how we are here today. lol my teacher did not agree. :'(

xomo


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:43 pm


wolfgirl_chaewon
The Catholic church does not condemn evolution, as long as one includes God is its scientific process. Personally, I believe that evolution is feasible, and that should be taken into account. I think that people who are strictly creationist are ruling out science, whereas people who are strictly evolutionalist are ruling out faith. It takes both science and faith to make a perfect world, and both to prove God's existence in the first place. So, people, it does not matter if one believes in evolution or not, as long as they include God as the Designer and agknowledge that it is still a theory, not a fact. We have no proof to actually prove evolution or disprove it. That's my long-winded and not-very-helpful opinion, haha...

~KK


Just coming from a scientific point of view... the difference between a "law" and a "theory" is that a law simply describes a natural event, while a theory explains a natural event. Nothing is ever truly proven in science- "scientific facts" are being changed because of new discoveries all the time.
Evolution doesn't have proof, but it does have a lot of strong supporting evidence. (Want to see a cool one, look up "ring species".)

On the religious side...
The Church teaches that each human soul is individually created by God. That means that while we are biologically related to the animals, God specially created us with our ability to love and to choose good or evil.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:08 am


Well, that all pretty much explains my question. I was never really sure, but I assumed it was ok because they taught Evolution at my school, a Catholic school. Although they could have just been teaching it so that we know it, not so that we believe in it, I'll never know. (Unless I ask XP) So it's ok to believe in Evolution. I've been thinking Microevolution for a while now. I just wasn't sure that it was ok to believe in. Thank you everyone!

Bane Ad Vitam


EmeraldWings

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:35 pm


sorry but the catholic church believes in Adam and Eve, to believe otherwise is to deny the teachings of the bible, which is a heresy,
God created MAN in His image and likeness, to believe we came from apes is an insult to God,

the catholic church believes in evolution in a different way, in which nature evolves, but evolution as they teach in schools is only theory, they teach it in theology, and in reality, it is as much as a fairy tale..

here's a quote that might help you understand better about why catholics don't believe in evolution...

"The utter incompatibility of Darwinian evolution and Sacred Scripture must be recognized. If belief in Adam and Eve is destroyed, then our entire Catholic Faith falls to pieces.

Because, if evolution is true then Adam and Eve did not even exist.

If Adam and Eve did not exist, then there is no such thing as original sin.

If there's no such thing as original sin, there is no need to be redeemed from original sin.

If there is no need for a redeemer, then there is no need for the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity to become Man and die on the Cross for our sins.

If there is no such thing as the Sacrifice of the Cross then there is no such thing as the sacrifice of the Mass, etc., etc., etc.

Evolution: Critical for the Atheist Agenda"
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:30 pm


Whom are you quoting exactly?

Bane Ad Vitam


EmeraldWings

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:06 am


it was from an article written by John Vennari,
if you want to you can read the full article here-
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/evolution/evol.htm
i think that might explain much more
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:25 pm


My personal theory is that God is like an artist when it came time to create man. He created the apes first and then manipulated them and used evolution to create Man.

Why else would he use the Great Flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah, etc? He was wiping figurative slate (aka Earth) clean. With apes and Mankind, he just decided to leave the apes, which were a 'poor quality image' of him, and see what would happen with them.
Note: This is just my personal theory I have when it comes to the Bible and evolution.

@EmeraldWings: Eh, sorry, but you may not believe in evolution, but there are other Catholics who do. The actual Catholic church stance is:
"Only faith and scientific findings regarding the evolution of man's material body are not in conflict, though man is regarded as a "special creation", and that the existence of God is required to explain the spiritual component of man's origins."

So you and I are both right, because God created MAN, the way I interpret it, meaning someone's soul, in his image and likeness, while the vessel for the soul is the human body. That's just my personal viewpoint, and the viewpoint of the late Pope Pius XII. (for more information see Adam, Eve, and Evolution)

It's also my opinion that Church doesn't want to get too involved in these kinds of things because it could potentially cause another major schism in the Catholic Church, which we really don't need.

METALFumasu


EmeraldWings

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:41 am


METALFumasu
My personal theory is that God is like an artist when it came time to create man. He created the apes first and then manipulated them and used evolution to create Man.

Why else would he use the Great Flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah, etc? He was wiping figurative slate (aka Earth) clean. With apes and Mankind, he just decided to leave the apes, which were a 'poor quality image' of him, and see what would happen with them.
Note: This is just my personal theory I have when it comes to the Bible and evolution.

@EmeraldWings: Eh, sorry, but you may not believe in evolution, but there are other Catholics who do. The actual Catholic church stance is:
"Only faith and scientific findings regarding the evolution of man's material body are not in conflict, though man is regarded as a "special creation", and that the existence of God is required to explain the spiritual component of man's origins."

So you and I are both right, because God created MAN, the way I interpret it, meaning someone's soul, in his image and likeness, while the vessel for the soul is the human body. That's just my personal viewpoint, and the viewpoint of the late Pope Pius XII. (for more information see Adam, Eve, and Evolution)

It's also my opinion that Church doesn't want to get too involved in these kinds of things because it could potentially cause another major schism in the Catholic Church, which we really don't need.


and God just decided to leave these little details out of the bible why?
i don't agree, we are specifically told that God created man, to create means to make from nothing, you seem to lack the perception that God can make something from nothing, there is no evidence of man coming from apes, although there is evidence of dinosaurs, and lots of it, why is that?
these are all only scientific theories that have no real foundation, if God wanted to make us from apes He would not hide it, He is perfect and does not make mistakes, and the ONLY time God spoke of imperfection in his work, is when He made Adam alone without anyone, that is when He made Eve, and He made her from Adams ribs, as was depicted,
but we have an even more accurate story of how it all happened, if you read the stories of Ann Catherine Emmerich, who was a woman God allowed to go back in time and see everything from the beginning, you will see there is no question,

this is nothing more than a theory, and i find it ridiculous that so many people have to see to believe in God or anything supernatural, and yet people believe unquestioningly about evolution and that we came from animals when there is no evidence that we can see,
scientists can make mistakes, and it was God himself who told us of the time to come when "scientists will be fooled" what do you think He meant by that?
how about the acorn that these scientists tested that was a newly grown acorn? i don't remember the age that came up, but it was thousands of years old or millions or whatever it was, they are FLAWED, they are only human,
and we also have to realize that humans have limited understanding, there are many things in even our world that we cannot understand, God does not want us to, He wants us to have faith,
these scientists are trying to make sense of how the universe came to be by this "big bang" theory, well is that as far back as they can think? they limit themselves and they try so hard to think up how the universe came to be WITHOUT God, you put your trust in these theories, or atleast think it's possible, well of course anything is possible with God, but God would not hide that from us, and He would not lie to us,

Adam and Eve were endowed by God with supernatural life in the form of sanctifying grace and with other certain preternatural gifts,
namely, bodily immortality, perfect control of nature by reason of freedom from irregular desire, i.e., concupiscence, freedom from suffering and
a knowledge of natural and supernatural truths infused by God, Adam and Eve received these gifts not only for themselves but for all their descendants,
And on top of that, what is your idea of the garden of eden? a paradise, made perfect, Created perfect(and perfection is not going to evolve)
it is the place where man was created, a place lost because of disobedience,

and just to clear something up,
how does this-
"Only faith and scientific findings regarding the evolution of man's material body are not in conflict, though man is regarded as a "special creation", and that the existence of God is required to explain the spiritual component of man's origins."
say that evolution of man can be true? i know what our last popes stance was on evolution, he did not believe that man evolved from anything, he said that man absolutely did not evolve from anything, but was created,
and he said that if there was evolution that it was only with plants and animals, the bible tells us that God made everything in 6 days, but one day could mean 1000 years, in which God could have allowed evolution, but the pope was clear and specific that man what not a result of any evolution,
i'd like to know exactly where you got that quote from,
and where exactly you heard that the pope believed mans evolution is possible.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:48 pm


Why do I even bother arguing with people who can be so unreasonable?

First off, the Big Bang actually happened. God said "Let there be light, and there was light." That light was the Big Bang.

Second, Ann Catherine Emmerich is what we call a fallible being.
However, I'll look into her stories and see what I make of them...

And for the official Catholic stance on evolution, go to this link: Catholic Online, and read all of it.

METALFumasu


EmeraldWings

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:32 pm


METALFumasu
Why do I even bother arguing with people who can be so unreasonable?

First off, the Big Bang actually happened. God said "Let there be light, and there was light." That light was the Big Bang.

Second, Ann Catherine Emmerich is what we call a fallible being.
However, I'll look into her stories and see what I make of them...

And for the official Catholic stance on evolution, go to this link: Catholic Online, and read all of it.


unreasonable? am i supposed to believe what you say despite everything i know?
let there be light doesn't indicate a big bang and it is certainly not where scientists got it from,

i read threw that sites information on evolution, it doesn't say anything about it being ok to believe we came from animals, it talks about evolution as theory and speculation,
i didn't see anything supporting your claim, i could have missed it, but that still doesn't dismiss everything else i said in my last post,

but again, these are all only theories, and we as catholics cannot believe in evolution of man from apes, it completely takes Adam and Eve out of the picture, and i'm not going to repeat myself, everything i said in my last two posts have not been addressed whatsoever, so right now i'd like to ask that you take the time to look them over again and reply to them,

sorry if you think i'm being unreasonable, but if anything i said seems offensive to you, just remember you're on the internet, and you can't hear how i'm saying anything, but i can assure you i'm not being angry or arrogant in anything i'm saying, i'm just disagreeing, that doesn't mean i dislike you or anything, it just means we understand things differently.
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Apologetics and Mock Debate

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