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Has Walter willingly betrayed Hellsing, or not?
  Yes, entirely of his own volition.
  Yes, but not entirely of his own free will.
  No, not at all.
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NoLifeKing66

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:08 pm


Has Walter willingly betrayed Helling, or not?

What do you think?


Evidence For:
The Dawn - Young Walter is quite the arrogant little brat. Also, when the Major offers him a position among his men, Walter mocks him, but does not directly refuse him.

Volume 1 - Walter was suspiciously (or conveniently) absent at the time Integra's uncle Richard was trying to kill her and take the family headship for himself, leaving her with no other choice but to release Alucard, whom Arthur Hellsing had purposefully sealed away (thinking him to be too dangerous to use as a weapon), in spite of the fact that Sir Islands warned him (Walter) specifically to keep an eye on Richard.

Volume 2 - The Valentine brothers knew exactly where the Hellsing Mansion was. They knew that the Hellsing Organization was based there, and, more surprisingly, that the Convention of Twelve was meeting there that day. They knew exactly where to hit them, and how. In OVA II, this is developed further, as Integra points out the fact that there has been an information leak, and as Walter himself applauds their strategies. Also in Volume 2, Walter gives Alucard the Jackal, which the Doctor detonates by remote during Alucard's and Walter's fight in Volume 9.

Volume 3 - Walter suffers a suspicious memory lapse when Millennium resurfaces (he does not seem to remember storming and destroying Millennium's base in World War II, but claims that he does after Alucard prods him). Integra, who had not yet been born when Walter was fighting the Nazis, figured it out first. Also, Millennium was already prepared when Alucard, Seras, and Pip arrived in Rio de Janiero. How did Millennium know they were coming?

Volume 6 - The long-awaited fight scene between Walter and his apparent rival, the Captain, was strangely omitted. Walter is then captured.

Volume 7 - (Of course) Walter reappears as a vampire.

Volume 8 - Walter bows to the Major and obeys his orders (bringing him cocoa).

Volume 9 - Walter descends from the sky and crushes the remains of Alexander Anderson underfoot, calling him worthless trash. He then explains himself and his appearance, saying "I was taken and transformed into a vampire. Following that, my mind was washed clean, effectively removing any reservations that I would have had from fighting." He says "I stand here as myself" and "For so long this form has existed as a fleeting dream," indicating that this is what he's wanted all along. He then proceeds to fight Alucard.

Volume 10 - Walter begs the Major not to "poison" Alucard, but only because he wants to win "not by luck" but by skill. Regardless, the Major goes on ahead with his plan. When Alucard is defeated, Walter celebrates.

OVA II - Walter is shown to be quite sadistic during his fight with Jan Valentine, inflicting painful (but nonfatal) wounds. For example, he rips one of the piercings out of Jan's lip.

OVA III - In the end credits, Walter is shown accompanying Millennium's officers (the Major, the Doctor, the Captain, Zorin Blitz, and Rip Van Winkle) to their zeppelin.


Evidence Against:
Volume 1 through Volume 6 - Walter's friendly behavior to his master (Integra) and his compatriots (Alucard and Seras).

Volume 6 - When the Captain intercepts them, Walter confronts him and encourages Integra to flee. The confrontation continues, even after Integra is out of sight and out of hearing range (at which point a charade would no longer be necessary).

Volume 10 - After celebrating Alucard's defeat, Walter asks himself "Is this what I wanted?" His soul-searching is cut short by Heinkel, who shoots him with her sniper rifle. Walter, in response, says "Shoot me more." He seems ready to welcome his own death (but not at Heinkel's hands). He then drags himself to the Major's zepellin, where the Major, Integra, and Seras are waiting.


Any other evidence, for or against, is welcome, and will be added to the list as it arises.

EDIT: New evidence has been added.


Personally, I think that Walter is a willing traitor. The evidence for it far outweighs the evidence against it. I believe that the conflict in The Dawn was resolved (without Alucard's knowledge) through a clandestine deal with Millennium in which Walter agreed to let Millennium escape, and Millennium agreed to turn Walter into a vampire when they returned half a century later. I believe that Walter accepted (or proposed) this deal because he was afraid of growing old and losing his abilities (Young Walter's arrogance makes this easily believable). He sacrificed his humanity to become a vampire (much to Alucard's dismay) in order to be forever youthful and forever strong.

EDIT: I'm holding on to my belief that Walter is a willing traitor, but my ideas about his motives have been changed and shaped by his actions in more recent chapters.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:24 pm


Weeellll...I think Walters a very complex and sneaky b*****d who willingly betrayed Hellsing when he was 14.

However...I'm not sure, I do think he also had a strong devotion for Hellsing..
I think he cared about Seras and Integra, and I think he...really had some issues with Alucard. Like jelousy over his abilities and maybe some issues with things he's done in the past. (Like retreating when the Captain came in....To quote Monty Python "...He bravely ran away!" I have a feeling Alucard did that ALOT when they worked together...)
Hey, I would to.

I do think he's among the more complex characters, and I do feel so terrible that his death is coming soon, as I'd like to learn more about him...maybe we'll get abit more before Alucard kills him in a horrible and disturbing way.
*shrugs*

I did really love that little moment between Walter and Seras though,
something along the lines of "I know you say you've changed, but it was an honor working with you"

Walters response to that was very...interesting...
So I would like to learn more about his motives.

I really think he'd rather support Hellsing then Millenium, but his own selfish desires outweigh his feelings about others.
=/

Suni moon
Crew


NoLifeKing66

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:28 pm


Suni moon
Weeellll...I think Walters a very complex and sneaky b*****d who willingly betrayed Hellsing when he was 14.

However...I'm not sure, I do think he also had a strong devotion for Hellsing..
I think he cared about Seras and Integra, and I think he...really had some issues with Alucard. Like jelousy over his abilities and maybe some issues with things he's done in the past. (Like retreating when the Captain came in....To quote Monty Python "...He bravely ran away!" I have a feeling Alucard did that ALOT when they worked together...)
Hey, I would to.

I do think he's among the more complex characters, and I do feel so terrible that his death is coming soon, as I'd like to learn more about him...maybe we'll get abit more before Alucard kills him in a horrible and disturbing way.
*shrugs*

I did really love that little moment between Walter and Seras though,
something along the lines of "I know you say you've changed, but it was an honor working with you"

Walters response to that was very...interesting...
So I would like to learn more about his motives.

I really think he'd rather support Hellsing then Millenium, but his own selfish desires outweigh his feelings about others.
=/


I'm in total agreement with you.

Total agreement, except for one thing.

Walter's death is coming soon, but it will not be at Alucard's hands. It will be at Heinkel's.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:32 pm


NoLifeKing66
Suni moon
Weeellll...I think Walters a very complex and sneaky b*****d who willingly betrayed Hellsing when he was 14.

However...I'm not sure, I do think he also had a strong devotion for Hellsing..
I think he cared about Seras and Integra, and I think he...really had some issues with Alucard. Like jelousy over his abilities and maybe some issues with things he's done in the past. (Like retreating when the Captain came in....To quote Monty Python "...He bravely ran away!" I have a feeling Alucard did that ALOT when they worked together...)
Hey, I would to.

I do think he's among the more complex characters, and I do feel so terrible that his death is coming soon, as I'd like to learn more about him...maybe we'll get abit more before Alucard kills him in a horrible and disturbing way.
*shrugs*

I did really love that little moment between Walter and Seras though,
something along the lines of "I know you say you've changed, but it was an honor working with you"

Walters response to that was very...interesting...
So I would like to learn more about his motives.

I really think he'd rather support Hellsing then Millenium, but his own selfish desires outweigh his feelings about others.
=/


I'm in total agreement with you.

Total agreement, except for one thing.

Walter's death is coming soon, but it will not be at Alucard's hands. It will be at Heinkel's.


Oh, Heinkel! *smacks face*
I totally forgot about her/he/it.
(Weeeeell, I think Heinkels a she, but I really don't know. xD )

Damn, you're right, I forgot after Yumie/Yumiko's death she's definently going to be the one to kill Walter.

What where her words, "Kill that shitty butler"

Gah, I can't believe I forgot that, I was all upset when Walter killed Yumiko/Yumie...

Suni moon
Crew


Overlord Ixmythot

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:50 pm


Indeed, Poor Yumiko.

Personally, I agree with the idea of a willing traitor. I don't buy the "Brainwashed" line one bit. Even if he was captured and unwillingly turned into a vampire, it does not explain how Dok could so easily destroy the Jackel (Such a waste, I loved that gun, and I HATE guns, so that's saying something)



I actually would have loved to see Integra strike down Walter, but I don't think she'd have the heart to fully strike him down.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:55 pm


Overlord Ixmythot
Indeed, Poor Yumiko.

Personally, I agree with the idea of a willing traitor. I don't buy the "Brainwashed" line one bit. Even if he was captured and unwillingly turned into a vampire, it does not explain how Dok could so easily destroy the Jackel (Such a waste, I loved that gun, and I HATE guns, so that's saying something)



I actually would have loved to see Integra strike down Walter, but I don't think she'd have the heart to fully strike him down.


Well, I think he may have been willing, but I think he was brainwashed a bit...
I don't think, no matter how selfish he is, that he'd try and kill/hurt in any way anyone he worked with...
Alucard: maybe..actually...YES
Integra and Seras: No way

Suni moon
Crew


NoLifeKing66

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:56 pm


Overlord Ixmythot
Indeed, Poor Yumiko.

Personally, I agree with the idea of a willing traitor. I don't buy the "Brainwashed" line one bit. Even if he was captured and unwillingly turned into a vampire, it does not explain how Dok could so easily destroy the Jackel (Such a waste, I loved that gun, and I HATE guns, so that's saying something)



I actually would have loved to see Integra strike down Walter, but I don't think she'd have the heart to fully strike him down.


Well, Walter was brainwashed, but he betrayed Hellsing before it happened. It's obvious that Walter had very special feelings for his fellow Hellsing members. The brainwashing was, as Walter himself says, to remove any reservations he may have had about fighting his former comrades.

The detonation of the Jackal is a very important piece of evidence supporting a willing betrayal, as Walter gave Alucard the Jackal in Volume 2, long before he was "captured" and brainwashed by Millennium, and the gun did not leave Alucard's possession since that time. It also suggests that Walter has been betraying Hellsing for quite a while.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:01 pm


NoLifeKing66
Overlord Ixmythot
Indeed, Poor Yumiko.

Personally, I agree with the idea of a willing traitor. I don't buy the "Brainwashed" line one bit. Even if he was captured and unwillingly turned into a vampire, it does not explain how Dok could so easily destroy the Jackel (Such a waste, I loved that gun, and I HATE guns, so that's saying something)



I actually would have loved to see Integra strike down Walter, but I don't think she'd have the heart to fully strike him down.


Well, Walter was brainwashed, but he betrayed Hellsing before it happened. It's obvious that Walter had very special feelings for his fellow Hellsing members. The brainwashing was, as Walter himself says, to remove any reservations he may have had about fighting his former comrades.

The detonation of the Jackal is a very important piece of evidence supporting a willing betrayal, as Walter gave Alucard the Jackal in Volume 2, long before he was "captured" and brainwashed by Millennium, and the gun did not leave Alucard's possession since that time. It also suggests that Walter has been betraying Hellsing for quite a while.


And, since the gun had some sort of chip in it, or else the Doc couldn't have destroyed it, Its probably been transmitting and sending back information about everything Alucards done since volume 2.
Wow. the super Alu tracking system, pretty damn impressive.

(Now if only I had a chip to hide and watch Alucard at all times, it'd help my character research so much. )

Suni moon
Crew


NoLifeKing66

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:02 pm


Suni moon
NoLifeKing66
Overlord Ixmythot
Indeed, Poor Yumiko.

Personally, I agree with the idea of a willing traitor. I don't buy the "Brainwashed" line one bit. Even if he was captured and unwillingly turned into a vampire, it does not explain how Dok could so easily destroy the Jackel (Such a waste, I loved that gun, and I HATE guns, so that's saying something)



I actually would have loved to see Integra strike down Walter, but I don't think she'd have the heart to fully strike him down.


Well, Walter was brainwashed, but he betrayed Hellsing before it happened. It's obvious that Walter had very special feelings for his fellow Hellsing members. The brainwashing was, as Walter himself says, to remove any reservations he may have had about fighting his former comrades.

The detonation of the Jackal is a very important piece of evidence supporting a willing betrayal, as Walter gave Alucard the Jackal in Volume 2, long before he was "captured" and brainwashed by Millennium, and the gun did not leave Alucard's possession since that time. It also suggests that Walter has been betraying Hellsing for quite a while.


And, since the gun had some sort of chip in it, or else the Doc couldn't have destroyed it, Its probably been transmitting and sending back information about everything Alucards done since volume 2.
Wow. the super Alu tracking system, pretty damn impressive.

(Now if only I had a chip to hide and watch Alucard at all times, it'd help my character research so much. )


I doubt it was intended to monitor Alucard (they had Walter for that). I'm betting it was just a simple self-destruct device.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:09 pm


NoLifeKing66
Suni moon
NoLifeKing66
Overlord Ixmythot
Indeed, Poor Yumiko.

Personally, I agree with the idea of a willing traitor. I don't buy the "Brainwashed" line one bit. Even if he was captured and unwillingly turned into a vampire, it does not explain how Dok could so easily destroy the Jackel (Such a waste, I loved that gun, and I HATE guns, so that's saying something)



I actually would have loved to see Integra strike down Walter, but I don't think she'd have the heart to fully strike him down.


Well, Walter was brainwashed, but he betrayed Hellsing before it happened. It's obvious that Walter had very special feelings for his fellow Hellsing members. The brainwashing was, as Walter himself says, to remove any reservations he may have had about fighting his former comrades.

The detonation of the Jackal is a very important piece of evidence supporting a willing betrayal, as Walter gave Alucard the Jackal in Volume 2, long before he was "captured" and brainwashed by Millennium, and the gun did not leave Alucard's possession since that time. It also suggests that Walter has been betraying Hellsing for quite a while.


And, since the gun had some sort of chip in it, or else the Doc couldn't have destroyed it, Its probably been transmitting and sending back information about everything Alucards done since volume 2.
Wow. the super Alu tracking system, pretty damn impressive.

(Now if only I had a chip to hide and watch Alucard at all times, it'd help my character research so much. )


I doubt it was intended to monitor Alucard (they had Walter for that). I'm betting it was just a simple self-destruct device.


But come on, why have a self destruct device?
Just so they could give him the gun so he'd use it to kill Anderson and get him out of the way, why bother making it to begin with?
*shrug*

I think it had a better purpose then that, if it was tracking Alucard it would help more with the Majors plans...a better more complex study of the enemy...
confused

Besides, I think there is only so much following Walter can do before Alucard would shoot him in the head. sweatdrop

Suni moon
Crew


Suni moon
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:12 pm


And also, by tracking, I mean more like monitoring his behavior.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:15 pm


Suni moon
NoLifeKing66
Suni moon
NoLifeKing66
Overlord Ixmythot
Indeed, Poor Yumiko.

Personally, I agree with the idea of a willing traitor. I don't buy the "Brainwashed" line one bit. Even if he was captured and unwillingly turned into a vampire, it does not explain how Dok could so easily destroy the Jackel (Such a waste, I loved that gun, and I HATE guns, so that's saying something)



I actually would have loved to see Integra strike down Walter, but I don't think she'd have the heart to fully strike him down.


Well, Walter was brainwashed, but he betrayed Hellsing before it happened. It's obvious that Walter had very special feelings for his fellow Hellsing members. The brainwashing was, as Walter himself says, to remove any reservations he may have had about fighting his former comrades.

The detonation of the Jackal is a very important piece of evidence supporting a willing betrayal, as Walter gave Alucard the Jackal in Volume 2, long before he was "captured" and brainwashed by Millennium, and the gun did not leave Alucard's possession since that time. It also suggests that Walter has been betraying Hellsing for quite a while.


And, since the gun had some sort of chip in it, or else the Doc couldn't have destroyed it, Its probably been transmitting and sending back information about everything Alucards done since volume 2.
Wow. the super Alu tracking system, pretty damn impressive.

(Now if only I had a chip to hide and watch Alucard at all times, it'd help my character research so much. )


I doubt it was intended to monitor Alucard (they had Walter for that). I'm betting it was just a simple self-destruct device.


But come on, why have a self destruct device?
Just so they could give him the gun so he'd use it to kill Anderson and get him out of the way, why bother making it to begin with?
*shrug*

I think it had a better purpose then that, if it was tracking Alucard it would help more with the Majors plans...a better more complex study of the enemy...
confused

Besides, I think there is only so much following Walter can do before Alucard would shoot him in the head. sweatdrop


The Jackal was made specifically for the purpose of killing Anderson. Walter says so himself (just after the Doctor detonates it).

Bear in mind, also, that Alucard did not suspect Walter of treachery (nobody did). Furthermore, Walter does not have to follow Alucard everywhere he goes to study him. Hellsing keeps on eye on Alucard at all times. All Walter has to do is report what they see to Millennium.

NoLifeKing66

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Suni moon
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:17 pm


NoLifeKing66
Suni moon
NoLifeKing66
Suni moon
NoLifeKing66
Overlord Ixmythot
Indeed, Poor Yumiko.

Personally, I agree with the idea of a willing traitor. I don't buy the "Brainwashed" line one bit. Even if he was captured and unwillingly turned into a vampire, it does not explain how Dok could so easily destroy the Jackel (Such a waste, I loved that gun, and I HATE guns, so that's saying something)



I actually would have loved to see Integra strike down Walter, but I don't think she'd have the heart to fully strike him down.


Well, Walter was brainwashed, but he betrayed Hellsing before it happened. It's obvious that Walter had very special feelings for his fellow Hellsing members. The brainwashing was, as Walter himself says, to remove any reservations he may have had about fighting his former comrades.

The detonation of the Jackal is a very important piece of evidence supporting a willing betrayal, as Walter gave Alucard the Jackal in Volume 2, long before he was "captured" and brainwashed by Millennium, and the gun did not leave Alucard's possession since that time. It also suggests that Walter has been betraying Hellsing for quite a while.


And, since the gun had some sort of chip in it, or else the Doc couldn't have destroyed it, Its probably been transmitting and sending back information about everything Alucards done since volume 2.
Wow. the super Alu tracking system, pretty damn impressive.

(Now if only I had a chip to hide and watch Alucard at all times, it'd help my character research so much. )


I doubt it was intended to monitor Alucard (they had Walter for that). I'm betting it was just a simple self-destruct device.


But come on, why have a self destruct device?
Just so they could give him the gun so he'd use it to kill Anderson and get him out of the way, why bother making it to begin with?
*shrug*

I think it had a better purpose then that, if it was tracking Alucard it would help more with the Majors plans...a better more complex study of the enemy...
confused

Besides, I think there is only so much following Walter can do before Alucard would shoot him in the head. sweatdrop


The Jackal was made specifically for the purpose of killing Anderson. Walter says so himself (just after the Doctor detonates it).

Bear in mind, also, that Alucard did not suspect Walter of treachery (nobody did). Furthermore, Walter does not have to follow Alucard everywhere he goes to study him. Hellsing keeps on eye on Alucard at all times. All Walter has to do is report what they see to Millennium.


True, once Anderson was dead there was no further use for it...

By way, I don't remember, did Alucard actually use the Jackel for the killing blow?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:37 pm


Suni moon
NoLifeKing66
Suni moon
NoLifeKing66
Suni moon


And, since the gun had some sort of chip in it, or else the Doc couldn't have destroyed it, Its probably been transmitting and sending back information about everything Alucards done since volume 2.
Wow. the super Alu tracking system, pretty damn impressive.

(Now if only I had a chip to hide and watch Alucard at all times, it'd help my character research so much. )


I doubt it was intended to monitor Alucard (they had Walter for that). I'm betting it was just a simple self-destruct device.


But come on, why have a self destruct device?
Just so they could give him the gun so he'd use it to kill Anderson and get him out of the way, why bother making it to begin with?
*shrug*

I think it had a better purpose then that, if it was tracking Alucard it would help more with the Majors plans...a better more complex study of the enemy...
confused

Besides, I think there is only so much following Walter can do before Alucard would shoot him in the head. sweatdrop


The Jackal was made specifically for the purpose of killing Anderson. Walter says so himself (just after the Doctor detonates it).

Bear in mind, also, that Alucard did not suspect Walter of treachery (nobody did). Furthermore, Walter does not have to follow Alucard everywhere he goes to study him. Hellsing keeps on eye on Alucard at all times. All Walter has to do is report what they see to Millennium.


True, once Anderson was dead there was no further use for it...

By way, I don't remember, did Alucard actually use the Jackel for the killing blow?


No, he didn't. Ironic, isn't it?

However, the Jackal was still very special.

Anderson could not regenerate the wounds he received from it (which makes one wonder whether or not his regenerative capabilities could possibly be derived from vampires' own regenerative capabilities, considering that the Jackal's ammunition consisted of blessed, Mercury-charged bullets with casings of Macedonian silver).

NoLifeKing66

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Monkeyinafryingpan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:21 pm


NoLifeKing66
Suni moon
NoLifeKing66
Suni moon
NoLifeKing66
Suni moon


And, since the gun had some sort of chip in it, or else the Doc couldn't have destroyed it, Its probably been transmitting and sending back information about everything Alucards done since volume 2.
Wow. the super Alu tracking system, pretty damn impressive.

(Now if only I had a chip to hide and watch Alucard at all times, it'd help my character research so much. )


I doubt it was intended to monitor Alucard (they had Walter for that). I'm betting it was just a simple self-destruct device.


But come on, why have a self destruct device?
Just so they could give him the gun so he'd use it to kill Anderson and get him out of the way, why bother making it to begin with?
*shrug*

I think it had a better purpose then that, if it was tracking Alucard it would help more with the Majors plans...a better more complex study of the enemy...
confused

Besides, I think there is only so much following Walter can do before Alucard would shoot him in the head. sweatdrop


The Jackal was made specifically for the purpose of killing Anderson. Walter says so himself (just after the Doctor detonates it).

Bear in mind, also, that Alucard did not suspect Walter of treachery (nobody did). Furthermore, Walter does not have to follow Alucard everywhere he goes to study him. Hellsing keeps on eye on Alucard at all times. All Walter has to do is report what they see to Millennium.


True, once Anderson was dead there was no further use for it...

By way, I don't remember, did Alucard actually use the Jackel for the killing blow?


No, he didn't. Ironic, isn't it?

However, the Jackal was still very special.

Anderson could not regenerate the wounds he received from it (which makes one wonder whether or not his regenerative capabilities could possibly be derived from vampires' own regenerative capabilities, considering that the Jackal's ammunition consisted of blessed, Mercury-charged bullets with casings of Macedonian silver).


This always astounded and confused me about Anderson.

Also, I believe Walter's pretty solid. He won't really have a whole lot to report, I mean, he's not Alucard's baby sitter.
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