|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:55 pm
The movie, The Golden Compass, that will be coming out next month is from a book which is very anti-Catholic. Is was made to bash Catholics and their faith.
In the book and the movie, it says that the magisterium is a evil power. And at the end of the book, the anti-God character "kills" God.
For all Catholics and even Christians, I don't any of us to move away from our faith.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:26 pm
It is not an "Anti-God Character". it is the three main children of the trilogy who are convinced to kill god because he is too old.
The author, Philip Pullman, also said: "My books are about killing God" and that he hopes to kill god in the minds of young children with his books. His books describe the Church and God to be an oprrssive and 'evil'(per se) force and the only way to be a hero is over throw both.
Now, take into account, he IS an Atheist, therefore, he wishes to convert others to his 'religon'(per se). Just as any Christan wishes to convert anyone to their particular branch of Christanity.
The ArchBishop of Canterberry has defended the book, claiming that the books do not try to overthrow Christanity, but the dogmatic views of Christanity that /do/ oppress people. And Christanity /does/ oppress people in some sences.
This book is not 'Anti-Catholic' is is 'Anti-Christan' if anything. Christanity is not limited to Catholics.
Now! I have yet to read the books, this is research I have done on the books. I haven't read spoilders, because I hope to read them one day. I like contreversal stuff like that, so yeah. xD
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:35 am
I read all the books ages ago, and though I can't remember much of the specifics from any of them...nothing jumped out at me at the time as being explicitely "anti-Catholic." From what I remember, I interpreted it much more as the need to overthrow oppressive powers, not religion (or Catholicism) specifically.
Granted, even if this supossed anti-Catholicism was blatant and obvious, I wouldn't (and don't) care much. Any given author has as much right to write against religion as another author has to write supporting it (or condemning atheism).
And in any case, if someone were to be turned from God simply by reading a children's fantasy book...well, sorry to be so blunt about this, but they're bloody stupid.
And yes, for any who are wondering, I do hate censorship. With a passion.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:58 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:53 am
BobCatHOH The Catholic League has interesting facts about the Golden Compass: http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1353 http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1342 http://catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2007&month=October&read=2322 See the video: http://catholicleague.org/videos/ No offense, but I think the Catholic League is kind of . . . . stupid. They get their knickers in a twist over the smallest things. If they were to simply raise the red flag to parents, "You might want to read/watch this before you decide if your small children should read/watch this", I would be find with that. But no, they simply tell all Catholics what they should and should not watch. Granted, they really have no power over us, I still find it kind of insulting that they think adult Catholics A) don't have strong enough faith to not let "anti-Catholic" media affect them and B) aren't capable of making their own decisions. Moving on to those sites you posted . . . . “Well, you know I always mistrust people who tell us how we should understand something. They know better than we do what the book means or what this means and how we should read it and whether we should read it or not. I don’t think that’s democratic. I prefer to trust the reader. I prefer to trust what I call the democracy of reading. When everybody has the right to form their own opinion and read what they like and come to their own conclusion about it. So I trust the reader.” -- Phillip Pullman What's the Catholic League's response? Liar! If you really trusted the reader, you wouldn't put athiesm in your books. (Or at least, that's what I got out of it) Personally, I agree with Pullman's quote. It's up to the reader to take what he/she will from the book. Some people are clearly taking this as promoting athiest. I read all three books (and loved them dearly) and took it as a great fantasy story. Did it effect my faith? Yes. It made it stronger. It wasn't the whole plot that did this, but various little things that stuck in my brain and led to personal revelations and a deepening of my faith in the Catholic Church. As an atheist, I doubt this was Pullman's intention, but that's what I got out of it. Seriously, the Catholic League needs to have more faith in the Catholic Church. If we really are the one true Church, and if our doctrine really is true, we have nothing to worry about. Don't encourage people to hide from oposition. Encourage them to seek the truth. If our faith is correct, we have nothing to fear. If it isn't correct, why the hell are we following it?
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:20 am
garra_eyes What's the Catholic League's response? Liar! If you really trusted the reader, you wouldn't put athiesm in your books. (Or at least, that's what I got out of it) No, that's a misinterpretation. If Pullman really trusted the reader, he would say "Look, I'll be honest with you. I want to use this movie to bait you into buying the books and have your children read the books. As your children read the books, I hope to destroy what little faith they have and recruit them into the Church of Atheism." Remember, the movie is aimed at children for a reason. Quote: If we really are the one true Church, and if our doctrine really is true, we have nothing to worry about. Don't encourage people to hide from oposition. Encourage them to seek the truth. If our faith is correct, we have nothing to fear. If it isn't correct, why the hell are we following it? Would you say the same about children? If you were a parent, would you teach your children the faith or just let them make up their own minds? Our faith is correct, and remember: faith is a gift from God. Pullman seeks to take that gift away by propagandizing the children. http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:42 am
Oh great, here we go again with another book we shouldn't read or movie we shouldn't watch.
Whoops, did my sarcasm just escape? I suppose I should apologize, but I just can't because in essence I really don't agree with telling anyone what not to read or watch. People are capable of making their own decisions.
Also, when it comes to children, parents can take this as a teaching experience. Talk to the children about the book and movies, but for heaven sakes don't tell them they can't see it! That will only cause them to see it behind the parent's back, and then the parent would have lost a wonderful teaching opportunity. Take the kid to see the movie, talk about the movie, and approach it through the lens of faith. Ask the child what they thought and what they like and didn't like. Turn it into a game or something.
That's what people should be doing. They shouldn't be trying to censor this. Like Enj, I am completely and utterly against any type of book/movie censorship. People have their own brains. They can think for themselves, and children need to be taught that they also can think for themselves, and the best way to do it is through the help of their parents, who take them to controversal movies and discuss it with them. By honoring the fact their kids have minds of their own and can generate their own thoughts, they help build a child's self esteem and help the child learn ways to think for themselves and how to discern reality from fiction.
As for the series itself. He did create an intricate fantasy world, but I must admit that his last book didn't have the same quality and rich characters that the first too had. It seemed more flat and the characters not as rich, like their life was being sucked out of them. I was really disappointed, but then that no doubt was my view on it. Others may not see it the same way I did. Also, it never once occurred to me that the Magisterium had anything at all to do with the Catholic Church or any other Christian Church for that matter. I just saw it as a government that wanted to control every aspect of human life, and that Lyra and the other characters fought against that. If Phillip Pullman was trying to create it to be some sort of Christian Church, then he failed horribly because it was so far from any sort of Christian Truth and Reality that it was nearly impossible to see any link between the two. In fact, I wouldn't have known he attempted that until I read his own quotes.
Though I wonder sometimes, if people misquote him, and he's not the militant atheist out to destroy religion after all, because quotes like the one gaara_eyes pointed out exist to counteract the negative ones.
I just think this is not a black and white issue, nor do I see a reason to have such a huge fuss over it. Once again, I agree with Enj on thisl: if one loses one's faith over a silly fantasy book, then they obviously didn't really believe to begin with.
One more thing I wish to stress: Books should never be censored on a wide scale. If you want to censor a book for just yourself and no one else, fine ~ it's your life and your decision. But don't do it for other people.
*end of rant*
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:56 am
Anarya Also, when it comes to children, parents can take this as a teaching experience. Talk to the children about the book and movies, but for heaven sakes don't tell them they can't see it! That will only cause them to see it behind the parent's back, and then the parent would have lost a wonderful teaching opportunity. Take the kid to see the movie, talk about the movie, and approach it through the lens of faith. Ask the child what they thought and what they like and didn't like. Turn it into a game or something. I agree completely with you. Anarya I just think this is not a black and white issue, nor do I see a reason to have such a huge fuss over it. Once again, I agree with Enj on thisl: if one loses one's faith over a silly fantasy book, then they obviously didn't really believe to begin with. Hear! Hear!
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:01 pm
Anarya Oh great, here we go again with another book we shouldn't read or movie we shouldn't watch.
Whoops, did my sarcasm just escape? I suppose I should apologize, but I just can't because in essence I really don't agree with telling anyone what not to read or watch. People are capable of making their own decisions.
Also, when it comes to children, parents can take this as a teaching experience. Talk to the children about the book and movies, but for heaven sakes don't tell them they can't see it! That will only cause them to see it behind the parent's back, and then the parent would have lost a wonderful teaching opportunity. Take the kid to see the movie, talk about the movie, and approach it through the lens of faith. Ask the child what they thought and what they like and didn't like. Turn it into a game or something.
That's what people should be doing. They shouldn't be trying to censor this. Like Enj, I am completely and utterly against any type of book/movie censorship. People have their own brains. They can think for themselves, and children need to be taught that they also can think for themselves, and the best way to do it is through the help of their parents, who take them to controversal movies and discuss it with them. By honoring the fact their kids have minds of their own and can generate their own thoughts, they help build a child's self esteem and help the child learn ways to think for themselves and how to discern reality from fiction.
As for the series itself. He did create an intricate fantasy world, but I must admit that his last book didn't have the same quality and rich characters that the first too had. It seemed more flat and the characters not as rich, like their life was being sucked out of them. I was really disappointed, but then that no doubt was my view on it. Others may not see it the same way I did. Also, it never once occurred to me that the Magisterium had anything at all to do with the Catholic Church or any other Christian Church for that matter. I just saw it as a government that wanted to control every aspect of human life, and that Lyra and the other characters fought against that. If Phillip Pullman was trying to create it to be some sort of Christian Church, then he failed horribly because it was so far from any sort of Christian Truth and Reality that it was nearly impossible to see any link between the two. In fact, I wouldn't have known he attempted that until I read his own quotes.
Though I wonder sometimes, if people misquote him, and he's not the militant atheist out to destroy religion after all, because quotes like the one gaara_eyes pointed out exist to counteract the negative ones.
I just think this is not a black and white issue, nor do I see a reason to have such a huge fuss over it. Once again, I agree with Enj on thisl: if one loses one's faith over a silly fantasy book, then they obviously didn't really believe to begin with.
One more thing I wish to stress: Books should never be censored on a wide scale. If you want to censor a book for just yourself and no one else, fine ~ it's your life and your decision. But don't do it for other people.
*end of rant* I love you. And, just because something that has come up is that these books are aimed specifically at children and "destroying their faith," I asked my step-son (age 11) if he thought that this series had an anti-religion message. His interpretation was similar to both mine and Anarya's: that the books were about overthrowing an overly-controlling government, and that they had very little, if anything, to do with religion. So really, if the author wanted to get people to hate religion by reading these books, he didn't do a very good job.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:06 pm
BobCatHOH Remember, the movie is aimed at children for a reason. Which is why I posted how my step-son interpreted the books. Honestly, if Pullman is the evil atheist mastermind that you're making him out to be...well, he's kind of failing in his mission. Quote: Would you say the same about children? If you were a parent, would you teach your children the faith or just let them make up their own minds? I prefer to teach and then let him make up his own mind. Believe it or not, I'm as much against brainwashing as I am against censorship. Damn Enj and his fondness for human liberties! Quote: Our faith is correct, and remember: faith is a gift from God. Pullman seeks to take that gift away by propagandizing the children. Except that he appears to be failing rather miserably, if that really is his life's ambition. I'll send him a fruit basket to console him.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:20 pm
i go to a catholic school. us students were told to stay away from that movie. my teacher told us it was anti catholic and in the movie they ''kill God''. my teacher said lots of things about this movie but mostly not to watch it.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:29 pm
Rebecca lala i go to a catholic school. us students were told to stay away from that movie. my teacher told us it was anti catholic and in the movie they ''kill God''. my teacher said lots of things about this movie but mostly not to watch it.   You should probably read Anarya's post, then, since she explains all that in there pretty darn well. Going to a Catholic school myself, currently, I agree with everything she has to say.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:32 pm
Yes I was just in the catholicanswers forums and read that.
Very sad and interesting. ninja
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:47 pm
ok, I know how some of you guys feel about this.. but this article made the most sense to me... one of the mothers in a local Catholic/Christian outreach program found this in an article and I thought it at least explained why some Cathloics and Catholic tolerant Christians are choosing to boycott this movie.
The main enemy in the books is the Magisterium complete with priests and nuns and an Inquisition style time period. Priests steal children and then cut out their souls so they cannot sin. Original sin is called dust and the main character goes on a journey of self-discovery to embrace this dust. She reverses the Adam and Eve story by seeking out the dust and benefiting from it. The book mentions in passing castrating young boys to keep their voices high. Angels and both good and bad, but of course good = bad and bad = good. Two of the "good angels" fighting against the Magisterium are homosexual. And in keeping with the general interest of the times, witches are good and of course are unfairly hunted down by the Magisterium. God is referred to in the books as the Lord, Almighty, Yahweh, etc God is ultimately found out to be a shivering old small being who is crying encased in crystal and ice. God is totally unaware of what is going on around him. The main protagonist does the "kindness" of killing him to put him out of his misery. He then disappears into nothing and everyone is happy again. The children are taught to enjoy their bodies by discovering how good it can feel to kiss and how the Church is afraid of that and suppresses it. The movie is toned down, but parents will buy the books for kids once they see the movie. The other 2 movies are planned to go forward.
I realize some people might say that this was just propaganda, but its all about what you choose to beleive right? It's good enough for me if on my own it sounds spotty, and then some religious leaders confirm my thoughs on it... I'm just not going to go see it. XD
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|